Flowering Now - August 2009

[Paul T]

Poul,

Do you get seed on your Cosmos atrosanguineus?  Very rare to do so, in fact I think I had only heard of it happening in NZ, but I wasn't sure if your posting implied you were collecting seed from IT or other things?

[Sinchets]

By the way- I do hope you or the bees have been running around those Narcissus pollinating them. 

Simon,

Actually, I haven't been.  I'd imagine that a lot will set seed form all the bees buzzing around, but I haven't deliberately crossed anything.  I've sort of been assuming that bulbs can be sent to your country, rather than just seed?  I guess I had best confirm that now, or else get out there with the paintbrush in a hurry. 

I'd be happy either way, Paul

[pehe]

thanks for these, poul, autumn bulbs are a group i don't know much about, so its interesting to see more... acis is esp interesting to me from this posting...

Cohan,

Autumn bulbs are very interesting. Many are little known too and you get lots of comments from 'inexperienced' visitors such as: 'Even the snow drops are confused by the climate change' when the see my Galanthus Reginae Olgae flowers in October.

Autumn bulbs can be hard to find, but there are many different species. In fact most spring bulbs has one or more autumn flowering sister.
They can be difficult, but many are quite easy, among them is Acis autumnale. They have just started flowering, in the following weeks I hopefully can show you big clumps of them.

Poul

[pehe]

Poul,

Do you get seed on your Cosmos atrosanguineus?  Very rare to do so, in fact I think I had only heard of it happening in NZ, but I wasn't sure if your posting implied you were collecting seed from IT or other things?

Paul,

No, I have not seen any seeds yet from C. atrosanguineus, but with your information it could be a challenge to get some.
I meant seeds in general when I replied too Maggi's request.

Poul

[Maggi Young]

Maggi,


By the way, I am collecting seeds now, and I will be glad to send photos to the seed database.

Poul

Thanks, Poul, your contribution will  be much appreciated. 
 

[Maggi Young]

Acis autumnale. They have just started flowering, in the following weeks I hopefully can show you big clumps of them.

 That sounds lovely... I'll look forward to seeing that ..... I am envious 

[cohan]

Acis autumnale. They have just started flowering, in the following weeks I hopefully can show you big clumps of them.

That sounds lovely... I'll look forward to seeing that ..... I am envious 

also looking forward to it!

[Paul T]

Paul,

No, I have not seen any seeds yet from C. atrosanguineus, but with your information it could be a challenge to get some.
I meant seeds in general when I replied too Maggi's request.

Poul

Poul,

Apparently up until the NZ plants set seed, every plant in cultivation was division from a single clone and had not set seed.  For some reason though there was some seed set in NZ at one point, which has increased the clones now and made at least some seed possible.  I think Lesley has mentioned before that she gets seed from hers.  All it needs for a single clone to "unlock" is for seed to set once, then the seedlings can be cross pollinated and not have the whole self-infertile block.  You have to wonder how many things that are only a single clone in cultivation actually DO set seed in a circumstance somewhere that means the seed never survives.  All that potential wasted.    Not something I lie awake at night worrying about, I must admit. 

Myself, I'd love to grow the Cosmos atrosanguineus from seed and see if I can get a seedling that does better for me here.  For some reason it struggles a bit for me, but my friend Lyn here in Canberra has hers grow and multiply very freely.

[Lori S.]

1) Sanguisorba dodecandra
2) Penstemon smallii
3, 4) Hanabusaya asiatica... endangered in its native range in Japan, apparently?
5) Erodium petraeum, in a welter of Acinos alpinus stems
6, 7) Anemonopsis macrophylla... two buds this year, finally... and a big green stink bug (Chlorochroa) inside the flower in the photo.
8 ) Lysimachia vulgaris
9) Nepeta subsessilis 'Sweet Dreams'
10) Dianthus amurensis

[annew]

I have a seedling C atrosanguineus flowering from Lesley's seeds. I did contact the RHS and Kew to see if anyone was interested since the RHS magazine was saying that seeds are never set etc etc, but got no interest shown at all. If mine sets seed (does it need a partner, Lesley?) I will send it to the exchange to watch out for it folks.

[Regelian]

Anne,

as I understand the situation, C. atrosanguineus is extinct in the wild and has been propagated via a single clone which is self-infertile.  Now, as to whether all individuals are self-infertile, I do not know.  There is a breeding population in New Zealand which is the current source of seed.  It will be interesting to see if your plant is self-fertile or not.  If it proves to be infertile, I would recommend you purchase a plant of the commercial clone and do some cross pollinating to build-up a European population.

One would think others have done the same, but I've heard no news.  As to the RHS and Kew not responding...well, that has been my experience as well.  I am no longer a member for that reason.  Apparently, they are both more oriented to creating better balances than actually promoting horticulture.  Sad.

[Rodger Whitlock]

as I understand the situation, C. atrosanguineus is extinct in the wild and has been propagated via a single clone which is self-infertile.

from http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/pbs/2006-July/025496.html

Re. Cosmos atrosanguineus,  Appropriately, the first place where I collected seed of this Cosmos was in meadows of herbs under tall pines on a hillside in Jalisco, Mexico.  I believe, in my field notes I remarked how the site reminded me of the pine woods of Pebble Beach and the Monterey Peninsula.

So there is hope.

I should add that when I found a pot of C. atrosanguineus this summer with a "Proven Selections" label, I snapped it up on the off-chance that it represents a different clone from the specimen I already had.

One can't help but speculate that the original introduction in 1908 [sic] was by seed. If so, it's quite unlikely that only one seed germinated, but then the question arises, what happened to the other seedlings? OTOH, C. atrosanguineus is a rather fussy plant to grow, needing winter protection in colder climates. The vicissitudes of the World Wars may have caused it to be neglected in both Germany and the UK, the two countries most likely to have taken a shine to it, with resultant loss.

A quick look through my library shows it's not listed in any of the compendia on bulbs nearest to hand, nor those on alpines, but I did find two references:

Graham Stuart Thomas in Perennial Garden Plants (1976 edition), p. 111:

Cosmos atrosanguineus (Hook.) Stapf. ... Mexico. 1835. Bidens atrosanguinea

Chris Bricknell & Fay Sharman in The Vanishing Garden, 1986, pp:. 76-77

Introduced to Britain in 1835 when William Thompson of Ipswich (forerunner of Thompson & Morgan) received seeds from Mexico. ... easily increased in spring by ... softwood cuttings [from newly formed shoots]. ... represents a triumph in the cause of horticultural conservation. Despite the bestowal of an AM in 1938, this unusual and lovely plant had seemed in danger of disappearing from cultivation. It has only recently been relocated in several gardens and, as a result, has been propagated and is now offered by a number of specialist nurseries.

Thus, the introduction date of 1908 is refuted.

I believe (but why, I cannot say) that it was put through tissue culture, cleansed of viruses, and thus we got the reasonably vigorous clone that is widely sold today. Or is it only here in BC that it's widely sold? (I cannot believe this is possible.)

PS: Thomas's book is responsible for many near-lost garden plants being recovered, by spurring interest in them. His discussion of Crocosmia, I feel sure, triggered enough enthusiasm for seekers to go find long-lost cultivars. It (the book) is one of the enduring monuments of the horticultural literature.

[Darren]

A few bits & pieces from here:

Alstroemeria huemulina from PlantWorld seed. I can't find much info on this one.

Cyclamen cilicium looking very at home in this limestone rubble.

Two 'Merendera' which both came from John Forrest : a lovely dark form of pyrenaica, and also montana.

[Regelian]

Darren,

the two Merendera are lovely.  A new genus to me.  Is it an new division from Colchicum? or just one that rarely gets attention.  Amazing to think of the wonderful plants we have growing at our front doors and, yet, we are always fascinated by the foreign beauties.  A bit of both, please!

Nicely coloured Alstromeria.  I've found them difficult to establish, but, like English Ivy, once there, they never go away!  A reward for all the effort?

[Darren]

Hi Jamie,

 Merendera is an older genus that was recently sunk into Colchicum which is why I used the quotation marks. You may see a picture by Poul of 'M. montana' further up this thread (Aug 18th) as Colchicum montanum which is the current name. I think both species (pyrenaica & montana) are sunk together now too - am I correct anyone? It is entirely possible that they have now changed back again or been placed in the same genus as squirrels or otters or something. I can't keep up so I've kept the labels as they were when I got them in the expectation that eventually they will be correct again....

If you like these two you should track down Merendera kurdica, which is I think the loveliest of the genus but hard to obtain & harder to grow!

Cynical, Moi?

I'm pleasantly surprised by the Alstroemeria. It is only 10 months old from seed. A.hookeri sown at the same time flowered within 8 months. Now I've just got to keep them alive but I will keep them in pots for now.