Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Specific Families and Genera => Pleione and Orchidaceae => Topic started by: mark smyth on January 09, 2013, 10:18:30 PM
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I think I've killed my Cypripediums :-[ :'(
The once white noses are now very brown. I planted them in a very open mix. One nose has mould on it. The noses were partially hidden by grit. Theyve been lightly watered once since repotting.
What do you think?
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Mark,
Covering them with grit shouldn't be the cause of the problem - all mine are covered in either grit or similar (currently trying clay granules as previously recommended on the forum). Watering them lightly shouldn't be a problem either. I wondered whether you had watered them and then had a frost almost immediately when there could have been some water held around the crowns on the grit surface. I always try to avoid watering if a major temperature drop is forecast for that night.
The one with the fungus spores looks decidedly sickly. :-\
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Mark - Why are there Cyp roots above ground?
johnw - +4c
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To show the noses for the photo
When I had the chance I should have planted them in the garden but ....
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To show the noses for the photo
When I had the chance I should have planted them in the garden but ....
Now you have got me worried, with all the rain that we have had I think I better check mine tomorrow.
Angie :)
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what colour should the noses be at this time of year?
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Mark - what hybrid/species are we looking at?
Cyp. reginae and Ulla Silkens tends to produce buds that sit overwinter with brown tips.
I have not come across others that do the same.
The fact that the buds sit so high in the ground would tend to suggest that they are not reginae or its hybrid.
If any of the buds are soft then they have rotted.
The one with fungal growth is almost definitely dead.
You could leave them all and cover with dry mulch, then protect them from further winter wet.
If some buds are rotting then this will continue over winter into the rhizomes and you could lose most or all of the plant.
The safest solution is to carefully dig up the whole plant, wash off all the soil, carefully inspect all the buds by peeling back the dark areas and cut of any areas that have rotted.
Treatment with a fungicide may then help but this is not something I've undertaken.
If there is an extensive area of rot then it may be safest to pot it up and try to re-establish the plant before planting out.
Regards,
David
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David they are hybrids I think. I'll cover again with Sophistocat and place them in a rain shadow. All buds are hard.
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Mark if there are in the ground, which it looks like, just cover them with a water impermeable covering, so that the rain does not get into the crown, like this photo from Svante Malmgren's site
http://www.lidaforsgarden.com/Orchids/Bilder_Cypripedium/Cyp%2079%20DSCN1437.JPG (http://www.lidaforsgarden.com/Orchids/Bilder_Cypripedium/Cyp%2079%20DSCN1437.JPG)
Where he has put a roof tile over the crown
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A good dose of fungicide needed? I always sprayed mine. The grit ensures air circulates round the buds.
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Neil they are in terracotta pots that are plunged to half their height in a sand plunge
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I would still put a cover over the top Mark
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Hello mark smyth.....and everybody ! ;)
Bad news for you cypri :o!
I see root of cypri in the picture ??? ...this not good.. you must make a protection during winter season..no ?
So the buds have a fungi attack ...this is not a good new for flowering this Year :'(
I look at my cypri nursery this morning and good news for me ..it's green buds.
Those one are in "indoor " so i hope the other in the garden (of Ardennes) are like that .
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-NovXlVhpTn8/UPK4IRvkljI/AAAAAAAABXU/YmG2zVoziyU/s576/IMGP1671-b.jpg)
I hope that 2013 was a great season for cypripedium !
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Looks like your Cyps are growing?
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I agree with Neil, you could just pin some old plastic compost bags over them. The terracotta will ensure that they don't dry out. :)
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Cover by all means. I never did. The buds need to have air circulating round them. It's too wet and as well as too dry that will kill them.
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I don't have any experience with Cyps in pots. Mine are in the garden and almost all of them have a roof tile covering them against the winterwet like Neil showed with Svante's website.
Nevertheless I have experienced the same thing as Mark did last winter. Buds rotted and roots turned brown and shriveled. It was just bad luck I think because the majority just did and do fine with some covering for winterwet. Fall and winter can be quite wet here and frost is not a sure thing.
We have freezing weather right now for I hope another two to three weeks. The days around X-mas were just too warm and wet with a possible too short of time for vernalizing the Cyps and a possible disappointing show of flowers. I am happy with the frost right now.
The tiles are removed in february.
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You can't get much wetter autumn and winter with temperatures very fickle, varying from 10oC down to -10oC or lower and I rarely suffered losses due to wet, except where I hadn't prepared an open ground site correctly.
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Nice covering for my Cyps, in pots ;D
Angie :)
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Been there, worn that t-shirt, er, thermals, woolly jumper and cagoule. 8)
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Anthony, I bet you don't miss this kind of weather. I have been watching Wanted Down Under on the TV in the mornings. Really feel like packing my cases and heading of to New-Zealand, do you think they would let old folks in :'(
Angie :)
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You're not old folk Angie. 8) It's been quite hot here recently, but nothing compared with Oz. Sydney reached 45.8oC last week!
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You're not old folk Angie. 8) It's been quite hot here recently, but nothing compared with Oz. Sydney reached 45.8oC last week!
45.8c :o now that is hot. A nice 25c does me.
Angie :)
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A nice 25c does me.
Angie :)
Yep, that was us yesterday. Looks like it again today. I hope Melbourne's not too hot at the weekend. 8)
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Seems we need a new subject line Maggie. We have run on a bit.
Prices dropping at the RHS
http://www.rhsplants.co.uk/plants/_/perennials/exotics/cypripedium-reginae/classid.2000019626/ (http://www.rhsplants.co.uk/plants/_/perennials/exotics/cypripedium-reginae/classid.2000019626/)
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Prices dropping at the RHS
http://www.rhsplants.co.uk/plants/_/perennials/exotics/cypripedium-reginae/classid.2000019626/ (http://www.rhsplants.co.uk/plants/_/perennials/exotics/cypripedium-reginae/classid.2000019626/)
Price drop at Judith Prins Garden Orchids in The Netherlands too. E.g.:
C. reginae € 12.50
C. reginae alba € 16.00
C. flavum alba € 17.50
Established multi-budded plants (mostly 2 to 3 buds and no divisions).
I am not complaining 8).
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Hi John,
that's a good price for Judith Prins. She grows very nice plants and must be feeling pressure from the competition of the big guys.
The RHS plants are marketed by Crocus http://www.crocus.co.uk/plants/_/perennials/exotics/cypripedium-reginae/itemno.RH30002544/ (http://www.crocus.co.uk/plants/_/perennials/exotics/cypripedium-reginae/itemno.RH30002544/).
A 9cm pot is very small, these are probably very young plants, a few years from flowering. Then £14.99 isn't quite so keen.
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Prices dropping at the RHS
http://www.rhsplants.co.uk/plants/_/perennials/exotics/cypripedium-reginae/classid.2000019626/ (http://www.rhsplants.co.uk/plants/_/perennials/exotics/cypripedium-reginae/classid.2000019626/)
The RHS plants are marketed by Crocus http://www.crocus.co.uk/plants/_/perennials/exotics/cypripedium-reginae/itemno.RH30002544/ (http://www.crocus.co.uk/plants/_/perennials/exotics/cypripedium-reginae/itemno.RH30002544/).
A 9cm pot is very small, these are probably very young plants, a few years from flowering. Then £14.99 isn't quite so keen.
Well Maren, you got that right :P
A friend of mine is desperate to try Cyp. reginae, finding it to be so very pretty. Learning of this RHS offer she asked me to order for her. No problem, I did just that - the plants arrived the other day- speedier delivery than I expected and well protected in rigid plastic packing and a large cardboard box.
Now then, Maren mentions 9cm pots as being quite small, but here in the home of the BD we are accustomed to 9cms pots holding numerous lovely flowering bulbs, so, frankly, my pal and I were hopeful that the smallish pot size would still be adequate to contain a reasonably sized Cyp.
The close up photos show what was in the two pots...... the first photos show the plantlets as they came out of the compost and the second two show them after the rotten bits were cleaned off. You will see a ruler to show scale. Thank goodness for photographic magnification- otherwise they may not have been visible!
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
Edited to add this picture of narcissus in 7cm pots
[attachimg=5]
Ian has had 39 narcissus flowers in one 7cm pot - you see why these cyps were something of a disappointment. Not sure how I will explain them to my chum.......
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This is very sad Maggi. These are small and unhealthy rhizomes without any healthy growth bud and a shame to be sold even as a bargain :-\ :(.
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I'd be inclined to complain to the RHS Maggi, obviously not exercising quality or value for money controls over their suppliers.
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I have written to RHS Customer Services- enclosing photos of the pathetic little offerings.
Even if the plants were healthy, I think my friend would have difficulty growing on such babies and there is nothing in the RHS ad. to suggest how young the plants are and I believe that is vital for plants like cyps which can hardly be expected to grow on like a plug plant of a sempervivum!
As can be seen from the growth rate possible from a 7 cm pot, as shown in Ian's photo above, I think it is possible that there will be many people being mislead as to what they might receive, as far as size and development are concerned and the dismal state of the plants is just not acceptable.
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The plants sold from the leaflets in the Garden have nothing to do with the RHS. Thats what I was told when I complained about poor quality Hepaticas several years ago.
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I don't care who supplied the darn things for sale - they were sold under the aegis of the RHS who are always keen to stress their superiority in all things horticultural and who should know better!
Edit : ... and they arrived in a box with RHS label and RHS tape all over it!
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Agreed, they can't abrogate their responsibility.
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Maggi
You have two routes
1The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 just notify them you want to send them back, you need to tell them that you want to send them baack this must be done within 7 days.
The Sale of Goods Act 1979 14 (2) Where the seller sells goods in the course of a business, there is an implied term that the goods supplied under the contract are of satisfactory quality.
I would use route 2
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Thanks Neil, I am aware of the distance selling regulations, but I agree this is a case of the goods not being fit for purpose.
In posting the pictures here, I hope to save others from having the same problem.
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Don't know how I had already posted half of it so here is the rest
I would use route 2 personally as depending on the RHS's T&Cs you may be liable for the cost of returning it under option 1. Option 2 they are responsible or the return cost and replacement and as you have already complained it makes more sense.
Its amazing that if you quote this law (and it also applies in Scotland with some minor differences) and as they are not complying with it you then you will go to Trading Standards, how quick a company will accept they are in the wrong.
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Incredible ..This website present nice flowering cypripedium and when the customer see the result of 15 £ (In promotion ! ).. What a terrible view !
I have much nice young plant and i dont pay that ..I bought around 200 young cypripedium and they are better than that.
Tomorow, i send you new photo of my youngs plants, I will soon have my first leaf and many cypri wake up (in indoor only).
At tomorow.
For good inspiration, look this link http://www.flickr.com/photos/duckuly/page143/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/duckuly/page143/)
Botanica (CypriAddict)
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Picture of my young plant of cypri ..the first leaf grow ! ;D
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-A1hqxBehSBs/UQ5IQuUhyRI/AAAAAAAABaI/zWNZpOsHBS8/s440/IMGP1715-b.jpg)
Have a good day !
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John, you said it very well. Let's face it, those plants pictured will never make it.
Selling plants like that is irresponsible and gives the trade a bad name. When one supplier markets moribund cypripediums, then everyone else is tarred with the same brush. :( :( :(
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I would suggest the cyps were deflasked last spring and spent a not good first summer in pots. there have been a number of mail order companies selling this size at the price for some years. Indeed one outfit sent them out 3 in a 5 cm pot and when I emailed them said "they test grew all new plants"..... Yes, when it dies it does not help encourage the general gardener to grow them.
I gave up trying to grow newly deflasked cyps in my nursery some years ago because of all the problems.
This is the same with the way some of the garden centres were selling the big cypripediums last year. One garden centre asked a colleague of mine to make comments on why their plants appeared to be suffering. He said yes and was led into the tropical house!!!!!!
Jeff
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Wow Maggi. I am glad that I never saw the so called bargain.
So many people are going to be disappointed with their purchases.
I knocked some of my plants out of their pots today as I was a bit concerned about the amount of wet weather that we have been having. All is well and hopefully I will be able to get them to flower better than last year.
Angie :)
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This is the same with the way some of the garden centres were selling the big cypripediums last year. One garden centre asked a colleague of mine to make comments on why their plants appeared to be suffering. He said yes and was led into the tropical house!!!!!!
Jeff
I tried to buy some of the 'gone over' ones at my local garden centre and they had gone from the sales area. I asked where they were and was told they were being 'dried off for the winter'
I do not think I need to look for them this spring.
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New buds growing ! Yes 8) ;)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-xObWoKHpb80/USCepx0aQYI/AAAAAAAABdE/9UWCLkjbaYg/s800/IMGP1740-b.jpg)
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Hi, Botanica,
are you sure these are cypripediums? the shoots look very etiolated. Do you keep them quite dark?
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Hi Maren, yes i'm sure they are cypripedium ;D ;D. ...it's very different of other plants (specifically the root !)
They grow indoor and the pot is placed behind window for the light.
The adults plants (Pubescens and Parviflorum) grow like that next year ... but they start in April.
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I'm happy to report that my Cyps are now starting to grow. Bits of green are emerging from the brown scales
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Hello mark smyth ...You have the first picture for us ?
My young cypris are nice at the moment ..many young buds growing !
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-kGudoynG0ts/USocvDmolhI/AAAAAAAABeU/8v_tpy7gBSY/s758/IMGP1749-b.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_um17hiGWo4/USobkAreXqI/AAAAAAAABd0/ZE2ek9yDXmg/s640/IMGP1756-b.jpg)
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Starting season this weekend in Outdoor ! 8)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-GFV9guQb1u0/UT4zxHOMnPI/AAAAAAAAABg/SZenPCqU6v8/s576/IMGP1792-b.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-vh8fk9hXzx0/UT4zYqd10JI/AAAAAAAAABY/90XFYh7WfBo/s640/IMGP1816-b.jpg)
I look for young cypripedium in pot in Outdoor and they look very good...i hope so for Spring season :D ;)
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Hi,
I thought these two plants may be of interest.
These are two large tibeticums ordered last autumn from Holger Perner at Hengduan Mountain Biotechnology Ltd.
They arrived yesterday and I'm well pleased with them - they have a huge root system.
As they appear to have just started to grow, the flower buds may blast, but if they flower, I'll post some photos.
Regards,
David
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David,
congratulations, these plans from Holger look superb.
I bought a tray of young plants, maybe 3 years old. They are a bit of a struggle.
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Thanks Maren,
I bought from Holger last year as well but with the delays they had with customs the plants were already growing when they finally arrived and none survived the season.
I thought that this year I'd try the largest plants I could get.
I have a large flowered tibeticum from Peter Corkhill and it will be fun to try crossing the two forms together,
Regards,
David
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If you love cypripedium ..you must look this video
I see that , in "Jardin et Loisir" of RTBF1.
Phytesia ..A Belgian group who cultivate different Hardy Orchids...Wonderful !
You know that ?
(http://ds3.ds.static.rtbf.be//media/video/thumbnails/181/263/3/4652b8a2efd93668f3a9aba6ff0be117/medium.jpg)
http://www.rtbf.be/video/detail_phytesia-producteur-d-orchidees?id=1812633 (http://www.rtbf.be/video/detail_phytesia-producteur-d-orchidees?id=1812633)
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Hello SRGC members and others ;D ;)
The new cypri arrived
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-0fTz6UVdvHw/UWxP7tJvogI/AAAAAAAAAKs/5sV-RPMo2ys/s800/IMGP2096-.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-TXBiK1x_bEA/UWxQElfrfCI/AAAAAAAAALM/es4tWqllUbE/s640/IMGP2141-orchids.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7S_t43AE6s4/UWxQIXO5YXI/AAAAAAAAALk/tgvxP4d9MJs/s640/IMGP2149-WATALOU_ORCHIDSPIRIT_flavum.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-cxYpenhXqLI/UWxQGzjMcLI/AAAAAAAAANA/5n_TsOGFvf8/s640/IMGP2147-Parviflorum-Lucie-ORCHIDOUXDINGUES.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-FVDSVN-z_FA/UWxPyBTtIJI/AAAAAAAAAKM/l_EzX06gaLQ/s640/IMGP2035-cypri.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Om5ROR27vVA/UWxP6keQ9CI/AAAAAAAAAMw/oTYkzQk4fq0/s576/IMGP2089-forosanum.jpg)
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looks like a promise :D i also use copeau de lin (flax chips) for insulation during winter.
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Lovely to see the video of Pascal Lambé of Phytesia. He is a really nice guy and he grows terrific orchids. He used to grow his seedlings at the University of Liège but now has some superb facilities to grow them on to flowering stage.
I tend to visit him by car once a year, sometimes with a van, and pack them full of plants. Retail therapy ? You bet. ;) ;) ;)
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Lovely to see the video of Pascal Lambé of Phytesia. He is a really nice guy and he grows terrific orchids. He used to grow his seedlings at the University of Liège but now has some superb facilities to grow them on to flowering stage.
I tend to visit him by car once a year, sometimes with a van, and pack them full of plants. Retail therapy ? You bet. ;) ;) ;)
You have made me really envious of you just heading of in your van 8)
Angie :)
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Maggi did the RHS reply to you?
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Maggi did the RHS reply to you?
Yes, they did .
Be rude of them not to, don't you think?
I got a full refund for my pal. And wonderful forumists have helped with new plants for her.
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How about this plant I got mail order. Its going back on Monday. I don't know why the seller wants it back. Isnt it going to die anyway?
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Its going back on Monday. I don't know why the seller wants it back. Isnt it going to die anyway?
- I was waiting for someones answer but 24 viewers and still nothing, so I will sey: this plant is going to grow and flower, since weeks should be planted in normal soil. This funny fine-crushed granite with composted mini bark chips (remainings still visible inside) I wash out immediatelly just straight after plants arrived from Germany. If you like, I will pay you for this plant + P&P, with PayPal you have money before Monday, so deal ?
Kristof
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Very nice buds of kentuchiense mark smyth !!
The first WONDERFUL flowering of 2013
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-xf-u0At1dVE/UXGRCpNFZ0I/AAAAAAAAAQo/3eRoAxHs8XY/s695/IMGP2033_B.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-sZxHfVSXZik/UXGRBrKuGiI/AAAAAAAAAQs/mwjKFbLKKt8/s800/IMGP2032_B.jpg)
Some of you have recommendation for Cyp.guttatum culture ?
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I would suggest that is a wild dug plant Mark. The lack of roots is usually a give away. That plant did not produce those buds with such a poor root system. It should have long healthy roots, with unbroken tips, up to 40 cm long. Cypripedium kentuckiense is not an easy species to get to this size.
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Happy my Cyps do not know they cannot be grown in mediterranean climate - up to 42ºC in summer and not really cold winter (I keep tropical water lilies outside)
An actual picture, and one from last year. :)
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Mark,
is the plant one of the new hybrids coming out of Holland?
I think one of them has 'kentucky' in the name.
Jeff has said on this forum that they tend to have dodgy roots.
Maybe ask him.
It certainly has plenty of buds and may even have enough strength to flower this year but
I would doubt it will do well longterm.
if it survives it may easily take 3 years to recover.
Botanica - nice flowers - are they clones of macranthos or ventricosum?
Hans- great to see kentuckiense doing well.
I acquired a TDS( total dissolved salts) meter recently and took some readings.
Rain water - 20 units
Tap water - 235 units( pretty hard)
Rain water with full strength feed( for hybrids) - 525 units.
Has anyone any information as to just how much feed hybrids can take before you see
signs of over feeding ( brown leaf tips)?
The plants go from a standing start to full bloom in a month and during this time with all this growth, their fertilizer requirements must be way higher than the rest of the year.
It would be nice to know how far they can be pushed.
My plants are just starting up and it is nice to see that last year's cool summer benefited them.
this is 'Michael' with about 24 shoots,
Regards,
David
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if it survives it may easily take 3 years to recover.
- I bought two of them last year (but very late at the end of april) in much worse condition. I planted them immediately in much bigger terracotta pot filled with clay soil from my garden and covered with shredded, very old touchwood. Picture from today (15 minutes ago)
Kristof
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But Mark, there are lots of roots !!! OK, maybe not a potful but enough to support the plant. I would persevere. :) :) :)
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Some powerpoints (PPT) for cypripedium cultures explanations (in French for the moment but i translate that as soon as possible ! )
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-gwYEQkMJoUc/UXWF71pQrmI/AAAAAAAAATE/Skn34evN0Xw/s912/Cycle%2520de%2520Vie.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Kl3vGgC9L5g/UXQa8o7zWbI/AAAAAAAAASc/w6Y6CdH0hjA/s906/Fiche%2520de%2520culture%2520type.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-bKz6wNBQLPw/UXQsFWpYn4I/AAAAAAAAASw/GBtHTOQRYnA/s912/Cycle%2520de%2520croissance%2520type.jpg)
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Hello Botanica,
This is a nice schema of cypripedium growth stages.
Just one point: cypripediums don't have pseudobulbs; they have roots and rhizomes. May I suggest that you change your picture 1 description to 'les racines'.
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Thanks Maren,
It's a big mistake you find ...i corrected that point for this night.
Can i propose to you to translate pictures with good and exact English ?...If you interested in ?
Have a good day !
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Translate? no thank you, I'm too busy. But don't forget to also change the line relating to dormancy. I suggest you delete the words 'du pseusobulb'.
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Mark, your cyp will flower this year and then if fed well will produce some good roots for next year. There are two problems: the plants have been in the 11 cm pots for 3 years and the mix has far too much small organic matter in it so there is no real aeration. The roots then stop growing. The root colour is typical of plants grown in a high organic mix. The only time roots are cream is when they are grown in pumice or perlite with very little organics and are regularly fed to help growth.
Regarding the Dutch plants; can anyone beat £2 per plant???? This was what one person told me they had paid at a garden centre last year. They only bought them because they heard another customer talking about the bargain they had just got.
having just received my first trolley load I will report back about the root condition when I have finished potting them into larger pots ready for sale.
Jeff
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cypripedium segawai
(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/5260/segawaii5.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/segawaii5.jpg/)
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At least some of my plants have flowered for the Harrogate Spring Show. $.5m x 1.5m is a frightening area to fill in a season like this year.
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Best of luck for Harrogate, Jeff.
Didn't You get a Bronze in London, though- not so bad!
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Lovely plants. If these can be grown in the Balearics there's hope for me here. 8)
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...Vermiculite - Perlite - Pouzzolane...
- please take a look on the second picture (Manne 12 of May 2012 20:47):
http://www.orchideenkultur.net/index.php?topic=21864.135 (http://www.orchideenkultur.net/index.php?topic=21864.135)
Cypripedium pubescens divided in 3 pieces of same size but first two rhizomes from the left planted in mix of clay soil & sand (or loam soil), plant on the right side - in a mix similar to the list above (pouzzolane is a lava, volcanic ash). Conclusions?????
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Fascinating. The use of free draining substrate in my case was because of the frequently free draining sky. With clay and garden soil they would have rotted and died, but here they thrive. Was the fertiliser used the same?
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Was the fertiliser used the same?
- Anthony, why you think, you need to add fertiliser??? I'm sure, you know "Multi-Purpose Compost" from the garden-supermarkets, if you ever have read "instruction" on the back of every bag they sell, you could see something like that:
"there is completely nothing inside me, just peat mixed with shredded wood and some other things and if you are so clever to buy me for your pots & garden, so go back to our shop and spend more money because without our fertiliser your plants will never grow".
I think this is very simillar situation.
Kristof
P.S. Because of the construction of this bed, Manfred added some fertiliser, I can ask him if you like. I'm putting on the top of my pots mostly my own organic compost.
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That would be a no then?
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Growing cyps in pots compared to beds or borders is not the same.
The physical properties of the two systems are very different.
Cyps need air to the roots to survive.
In a pot, it is very difficult to maintain this for any length of time with organics.
The compost will slump or degrade at some point and then the roots die quickly.
If you were to grow those pieces of pubescens in the same soils in a pot
the probability is that the situation would be reversed and the best grown plants would be
growing in inorganic media.
Cyps grown in organics in a pot can survive and grow but you must be either lucky or an extremely good grower.
There is plenty of discussion on this topic in older posts in this section.
If you use inorganics then cyp culture in pots goes from being difficult to fairly easy.
Using large pots and mainly super coarse perlite or other similar products turns cyp culture into something attainable for most people who like to grow these plants.
The compost never degrades and you can grow the plants in the same pot for several years without repotting (something that cyps hate) and end up with large specimens of 20+ growths.
The only illustrations I've seen of successful cyps in pots with organics is Svante Malmgren on his web site.
But he has a fantastic source of loose pine duff surface soil from the local woods (not available to most of us) and he uses clay pots which aids drainage and air flow round the roots.
Plus he only seems to use this for his youngest seedlings - they are planted out fairly quickly after 2-3 years,
Regards,
david
Regards,
David
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Before I'll be able to answer - a small question:
But he has a fantastic source of loose pine duff surface soil from the local woods (not available to most of us)
- could You please explain what is so extraordinary in this forrest? A heavy clay soil from the wood growing on sandstone (what kind of sandstone this is other story) is something unusually for you? There is no more wood where I live now ( only small relicts in local parks) but the clay is still
everywhere around - it's called London Clay Formation, please take a look for example
in Wiki.
Kristof
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Today I bought this pot in a local garden centre. I think, it is true fasciolatum, not so bad for around 15 pounds. I friend bought a pot with 6 flowering shoots!
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Kristof,
here is a quote direct from Svante Malmgren's web site.
(http://www.lidaforsgarden.com/Orchids/cypripedium_eng.htm (http://www.lidaforsgarden.com/Orchids/cypripedium_eng.htm))
''For Cypripedium seedlings we use the top 10cm layer of a soil derived from mixed coniferous and deciduous woodland. The soil is naturally well draining and we always use clay pots. This combination provides good drainage and good close contact between the roots and the soil.''
So if you can find soil of this type you could grow cyps successfully in pots.
However I cannot!
I find it much easier to go to the local agricultural supply store and buy 100 litre bag of super coarse perlite for about £18.
This stuff never breaks down and the plants grow very well in it - much better than shown in the photo.
Hybrids can double or triple in size each year once established.
Check out some of the 'cyps in pots' threads for previous years.
Regards,
David
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When I started growing cypripediums in large numbers in 2002 the only information around was in Cribbs cypripedium book which made growing look very difficult. Svante was the first person to give me advice and he sent a sample of the soil he uses. For a couple of years I used a similar soil in my pot mix but found losses in the summer through root rot rather high. I then moved onto a Seramis mix (30%) that still did not work because of my automatic watering system, which kept the seramis too wet. Some five years ago I met Peter Corkhill and was amazed by the quality of the plants in his garden and pots. Most plants were actually in large pots and if in the ground plunged. The mix consisted of pumice, perlite, cornish grit and composted bark. The amount of bark depending on the species or hybrids. This has proved very successful both in the garden at home, my show pots and the large number of sales pots I sell each year. This system works well provided I water the pots well and feed regularly throughout the season.
As others have written before, cypripediums grow mainly in very open free draining poor soil. Only a few can tolerate compacted soils with little aeration.
With regard to clay pots. Plunged in the ground fine but if not they can dry out very rapidly causing stress to the roots and rhizome. The best idea is to put the plant into a plastic pot and then into a terracotta.
As a trial I left a quantity of pots outside for the whole of the winter. The results have been excellent with nearly all the plants regrowing this spring despite the amout of rain and then the snow and frost. For me they are the easiest of the hardy orchids.
Jeff
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For me they are the easiest of the hardy orchids.
- I agree absolutely and only one different is: I'm keeping my all Cypripedium in terracota pots standing outside the house, planted in clay covered with huge amount of my mostly own pure organic compost all year around. Despite rain/frost/rain/frost etc. periods in the winter time and drought in the hot summer time.
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Kristof,
I'm interested to hear how you grow your cyps.
Can you give some more details?
Are the pots plunged? What size are they?
What species/hybrids do you grow?
Thanks,
David
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''For Cypripedium seedlings we use the top 10cm layer of a soil derived from mixed coniferous and deciduous woodland. The soil is naturally well draining and we always use clay pots. This combination provides good drainage and good close contact between the roots and the soil.''
S.Malmgren is trying to explain to everybody in the most understandable way how to grow orchids from seeds (in-vitro asymbiotic method). According to many discussions I saw on different european internet forums, in my opinion - he need to do this many many years more because people don't want to understand. Last sunday on the Hardy Orchid Society meeting in Kidlington near Oxford, more than hundreds of orchid growers/enthusiast could see and hear how Chairman C.Wright on the end of S.Malmgren speech asked that question:
- your soil from the forrest is clay soil, therefore heavy soil?
- yes, this is heavy soil, very heavy, I'm adding 25% sand to this soil
But now we have found next problem - how to find in UK forrest similar to this in Sweden...
David - in Great Britain and Ireland they are milion places with clay suitable for orchid-mixes. Most easiest way is - just take geological map of UK and look where is the nearest limestone/dolomite/chalk deposit. A couple of years before I visited quite often industrial site in abandoned chalk quarry (North Downs Business Park/Limepit Lane, Sevenoaks) where with a little help of foxes I packed just straight to the car what these animals have dug out from the slope.Now I'm too lazy so I'm using clay from my garden.
Kristof
P.S. Cypripediums are on the begining of vegetation now...
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Kristof,
very interesting.
I am looking forward to seeing photos of your plants.
However I don't have the time to go looking for soil that may or may not work when I can buy something that is very reliable from the local store.
I'm very happy with the growth of the cyps in perlite.
All my plants grow in exactly the same compost. The only difference is the rate of feed.
Species receive quarter rate and hybrids full rate - it is all very straight forward and when you don't have a huge amount of time, it makes looking after nearly 100 pots possible.
If you look at the complicated recipes for growing cyps using organics in Cribb's book then it would put off many people.
So many different composts each with different rates of various difficult to source soils!
Regards,
David
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I have a problem with the idea of collecting soil to grow cypripediums in, the same as when people ask why I don't collect leaf mould to use with my other hardies. Every beech woodland within miles is a nature reserve and the idea of taking a bucket and spade to one of these venues is just a non starter. I get fed up being asked "where did you dig that plant up?" as it is, so I'm not going to provide people with ammunition.
Even collecting fallen beech leaves into a dustbin bag to make my own leaf mould raises eyebrows on the local rec, although I'm sure some people think that I'm involved in the Community Payback programme and am clearing them away as punishment. ;D
And if, after hours spent looking, I found some suitable clay soil, I don't think that the local farmers would be overly happy with me digging in their fields to collect enough soil for fifty plus pots, so what do I do? Clandestine raids after dark? I'll probably get shot by the gamekeeper.
Seriously the whole idea is a non starter. I'll stick to perlite and pumice.
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Leaf mould breaks down too quickly. Composted bark lasts longer, but as you are only adding 10% to an 80 - 90% inorganic mix, it is not important and isn't used as a nutrient source anyway. As Michael Weinert suggested, I sprayed systemic fungicide as the fungus competes with the orchid and are only important in a natural setting where the breakdown and release of nutrients from leaf mould is important.
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To clarify, I do not use leaf mould with cyps, but have found that it definitely helps in the mix with my so called difficult woodland plants like Cremastra. I never have very much and find that it takes years to form, so have to pick and choose where I use it.
I was simply making the point about the problem of going out and digging clay / beech leaves / leaf mould.
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I think the only clay anywhere near cyps is the baked stuff that the pots are made of.
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I've done a small experiment this winter. Last year i potted up some Cyp. Ulla Silkens and regina, plus some Dactylorhiza in some inorganic mixes of sand and perlite, with some also cat-litter-gravel. i left some of the Dactylorhizas in my normal claysoil mix and I've just had a look at how they have done over winter. The plants in the inorganic mix had done far better than the ones in the soil mix. This experiment was only with a few different plants and only one year, but i do think I'll continue along these lines with the potted hardy orchids.
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Cyp.parviflorum.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AgIFj3GaOeY/UXgYwObp2xI/AAAAAAAAATU/OMwYtnmbRGU/s497/Parviflorum2jpg.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-GhJASs8W-uE/UXgYv0mUdbI/AAAAAAAAATY/2A_7b6ehIJo/s438/Parviflorum1.jpg)
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Because of the construction of this bed, Manfred added some fertiliser, I can ask him if you like.
- this is the answer: an dünger verwende ich blühpflanzendünger sonst nichts = only fertilizer for flowering plants, nothing more
I got the question for all people who wrote comments in last two days - what can happen if someone will put rhizome into porous substrate (like seramis mixed with perlite,tufa + composted bark), all day will be raining and next day weather will change to frost -4 for a couple of days??? Is this really necessary to explain, that without basic info: where you keep your Cypripedium in the winter time (greenhouse, conservatory, cold frame or outside) - this whole discussion is nonsense??? In my opinion only Jeff gave full information how he is growing his Lady Slippers.
Regards -
Kristof
Lars - first story: cat-litter is not a gravel, but this is clay; second: season already started, but to compare the results - let first your Dactylorhiza grow.
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Let's clarify something. The clay in cat litter is baked and remains pelleted like Seramis®. Clay itself is made up of mineral particles smaller than 2 μm and holds its shape when a wet lump rolled in your hand.
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Kristof,
instead of demanding information about how we grow cyps, please take the time to look through the various cyp threads in this section.
This is what most people do when they join the forum.
There is a wealth of information from some excellent growers which will answer all your questions about culture using inorganics.
Most people grow their cyps in pots in a very similar way to Jeff.
Regards,
David
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Every forum and still the same story...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bentonite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bentonite)
For my cat I'm buying cat litter in Tesco, Sainsbury, Co-operative (former Somerfield) and sometimes in the small pet-shops or off-licence too, so I hope - we will don't start discussion now about the differences between cat litter in other european supermarkets & shops...
Kristof
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Hi Kristof,
I'm not sure what you want here, but i think you have misunderstood a few posts. Yes, i know that Cat-litter gravel is not gravel but baked clay pellets. I've also grown Dactylorhiza in inorganic matter last season and I can fully judge how they have survived by now, so I'm not sure what you want me to wait for. Judging from your posts you have a lot of experience, so why not contribute with that?
-
Every forum and still the same story...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bentonite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bentonite)
For my cat I'm buying cat litter in Tesco, Sainsbury, Co-operative (former Somerfield) and sometimes in the small pet-shops or off-licence too, so I hope - we will don't start discussion now about the differences between cat litter in other european supermarkets & shops...
Kristof
Cat litter difference has already been discussed if you care to use the search button. There is however two very different types of cat litter and one will almost certainly help kill your plants.
If you haven't read them already, see the extensive information about Biosorb/cat litter/ultrasorb in Wisley logs numbers 18 and 19
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I've done a small experiment this winter. Last year i potted up some Cyp. Ulla Silkens and regina, plus some Dactylorhiza
I've also grown Dactylorhiza in inorganic matter last season and I can fully judge how they have survived by now,
- Lars, now I'm lost - or I'm too tired today...Last year winter 2011/2012 or last year winter 2012 until spring 2013 and season already started now???
Kristof
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Mine are all coming into flower nicely and I bet all the flowers will over by the time I come back from the conference. Hope it's a cold spell here when I am away. Oh well there is always next year.
I have mine growing in all different materials and so far I can't see any difference, they have all had low temperatures and its been a long winter. I will say that the ones in the cat litter seem to be a little later but since I am a novice I can't really comment.
Its really interesting to hear what others do. I do find it helpful.
Angie :)
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I think short explaining would be good for everybody, but because a mix of different things occurred in the same time, I will start from the beginning.
1) More than one month before Mark bought a few Lady Slippers from Germany for very reasonable prices compare to UK. A few of them arrived with damaged roots, one of them was presented on this forum. Because I introduced him this seller and I feel a bit responsible for this situation, my suggestion was to rescue this plant in other way than people usually are doing in UK. I think planting this Cypripedium in clay soil from the nearest basalt quarry (industrial estate) will be the easiest solution.
2) In my opinion – plant presented by Mark on the photograph show exactly what can happen, when we plant our Lady Slipper in well drained soil substrate, and after the rain frost will come. There is good visible - roots damage occurred in approximately the same radial distance from the pot edge. I hope, everybody still remember closed airports in Europe ( like Frankfurt/Main or Paris) or more than 1m of snow in Northern Ireland before Easter this year??
3) This problem of course don’t occur when we keep Cypripedium indoors (conservatory, greenhouse, polyethylene-tunnels or in the cold frame) and we don’t water in winter, just absolutely minimum only. But – I think, there is many other people in this country, from Isle of Sky to the white cliffs of Dover, who maybe don’t want to spend thousands of pounds for building professional greenhouse in the back yard but still would like to keep a nice Lady Slippers clump in Italian terracotta pots. So I think there is a good opportunity to connect this two ideas – save Mark’s plants (and recover them not in next 3 years but now!) and show someone else how to do this.
4) Basalt is a igneous rock of volcanic origin and his plutonic analog is gabbro: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAPF_diagram (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAPF_diagram)
Both contains basic component called feldspar – calcium rich plagioclase. As a result of weathering processes, plagioclase is converted into clay minerals, also rich in calcium.
Because I have found old record of Cypripedium calceolus from the wood on the Gabbro and Serpentine Massive published in Flora Silesiaca by Anton Johann Krocker in 1814, in my opinion this will work without problem. Contemporary occurrence of other orchids on basalt rocks I know from Poland, Germany and Czech Republic (Orchis mascula/ovalis, Dactylorhiza sambucina, Platanthera chlorantha, Dactylorhiza viridis) or endemic species of Canary Islands or Madeira. Here a small sample: http://garten2null.de/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Barlia-metlesicsiana.jpg (http://garten2null.de/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Barlia-metlesicsiana.jpg)
5) In think this is very common opinion about "well drained soil with good drainage" due to lack of understanding the properties of clay minerals. Of course, amount and percentage share of clay minerals differ – but one is for sure: I have never - ever saw Cypripedium calceolus growing in the wild in non-clay soil.
Regards -
Kristof
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According to the previous post: on 19 of March I went for holidays until Easter. I was watching every day weather in UK on my iPhone, and I think everybody was surprised the same way with terrible strong cold winds, rain with snow and every night frost for more than one week. Because nobody expected such scenario, my plants stayed outside all this time, remaining of brown noses (1 and 2) are still visible;
Cypripedium segawai x fasciolatum; Mix in pot on the base of an old lawn-clay soil covered with aprox.1 inch layer of my own garden compost (pure organic material from self-made wooden compost box).
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Kristof,
great to hear about your cultivation techniques.
It is always interesting to see how others succeed.
I'm interested to know why you think that plants grown in inorganics are more likely to
suffer frost damage than plants grown in organic mediums in pots.
Have you seen any direct comparisons that show this to be the case?
I'd love to see some evidence.
Also - why do you think that Mark's plant will recover more quickly in an organic medium than an inorganic one?
We all know how cyps live in the wild.
I'm sure that many cyp growers on this forum have Cribb's monograph and have read the relevant chapters on how to grow the species in pots.
The reason we use inorganic mediums in pots is to do with the consistent free draining physical properties of the medium more than anything else.
You can also grow pretty much all the commoner species in the same medium.
It is an issue of practicality.
I'm sure that quite a few people would grow their cyps 'au naturel' if it were as easy as using inorganics - it is a question of access to the substrate and consistency of performance.
I'm not sure that there are many people that want to go round the country looking for suitable clay soils. I certainly don't have the time.
For many hybrids, growth in inorganics is as easy as falling off a log and increase in size is quite startling.
What is the point of moving?
Do you have any photos of cyps growing in organics in pots for several years?
This is the acid test - organics have a tendency to break down and this is swiftly followed by plant death as the medium becomes anaerobic and the roots die.
Plants grow for a year or two and then die off.
Or you have to repot them annually or every two years and this then sets them back (cyps hate repotting) and they never reach any size as they are constantly re-establishing themselves.
You can leave cyps in inorganics for five years and they are fine.
Take a look at this photo - it was taken today.
The back row closest to the greenhouse shows hybrids in large 12 inch pots, all are in super coarse perlite.
Most are between 15 and 25 growths.
In a few weeks these will give a super display.
It would be all but impossible to do this with an organic medium.
However I would love to be proved wrong!
Regards,
David
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I'm interested to know why you think that plants grown in inorganics are more likely to suffer frost damage than plants grown in organic mediums in pots.
David - first time I hear, that covering my pots with layer of compost means - I'm growing something in organic compost. Cypripedium are planted in clay soil. Pure clay is a sedimentary rock build from minerals - is absolutely INORGANIC. However, every soil contains more or less but allways organic particles (like humus - that's not important now), for example under the turf on old clay soil is enough organic materials for every european orchids, for Cypripedium too. If someone don't want looking for clay?? This is not my business, but one is for sure - if I will be more lazy then now, I will order top-soil or John Innes online and mix them with crushed chalk or marble (gravel from B&Q).
Kristof
P.S.Could you please show us picture of your pots from January or February??
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Ok, so are you are saying that the clay is acting like the inorganics the rest of us are using?
Can you show a photo of the clay you use?
How does it pack down in a pot?
How quickly does a pot drain when you use it?
The pots you see in the photo look just the same in the winter as they do now.
They spend the winter in the garage out of the worst of the weather.
There is no extra heating and they're watered once around Christmas time.
I top off the pots in the final inch with hydroleuca which is why you cannot see the perlite.
It is prettier to look at than perlite and acts as a mulch.
It also seems to prevent any slug damage,
Regards,
David
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Ok, so are you are saying that the clay is acting like the inorganics the rest of us are using?
I never-ever told this, since years I’m trying to explain something absolutely different: no other material, natural or artificial, no other is working like clay minerals do. There is very simple method to confirm this and try at home: take a plastic bowl, put a cup of gravel inside and add same amount of water. And now use anything you want - please remove gravel from this mix. This will take you about 1 minute to take other bowl, kitchen sieve and gravel is back in your hands. The same you can do with pumice, tufa, keramzite or baked clay pellets, hydroleca, perlite, pouzzolane, even sand if you use suitable sieve. Vermiculite is a mineral with very similar structure but is a bit different, so will be probably swimming on the water but you can simply remove all amount the same way.
- And now – please take a dry clay, crush with the hammer and mix with water and after 5 minutes try to remove the same way like you did before with all other materials… My suggestion – try this when you are alone and outside the house, if someone will see what are you doing… and probably the shower will be necessary if you try to help yourself using hands. Why clay minerals are acting that way? This is other story, no time today.
There is only one way to remove water added to clay, is temperature – and time, this can not happen in 5 minutes, so before natural bentonite will turn to cat litter, heat treatment is necessary. And this is exactly the process our European orchids are using – for example Anacamptis morio is in stage of dormancy when clay is dry and the meadows/pastures/chalk grasslands are turning yellow in the summer time. But when autumn arrives and first rains are making clay back wet, green winged orchids is starting to wake up – and will grow until the end of spring in next year. Is this not simple to understand???
Kristof
P.S. Species from the macranthos and tibeticum complex will struggle in beds with the winter wet..
I will probably cover pots with them in November, but until now I keep them without any cover at all.
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Kristof,
thanks, very interesting but what exactly are you describing when you talk about adding hammered clay to water?
I think I'm missing the point.
I'm assuming that the clay particles go into suspension and 'sort of 'dissolve to make a sort of gloopy mix.
As clay is made up of very fine particles then this is not entirely unexpected.
How does this fact help with the culture of cyps in pots?
Thnanks,
David
PS I will not be trying the hammered clay in water experiment!
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what exactly are you describing when you talk about adding hammered clay to water? I think I'm missing the point.
hammered - because you can't take dry clay with a cup :) when is dry, is turning to very hard stone and you need to wait until the clay will absorb all amount of water; this can take maybe 15-30 minutes.
I'm assuming that the clay particles go into suspension and 'sort of 'dissolve to make a sort of gloopy mix. As clay is made up of very fine particles then this is not entirely unexpected.
yes and no; yes - because clay particles can be suspended in water, no - because not always only size of particles is important factor. The best example for is quarz, main component of (mostly) every sand - you can crush mechanically grains of quarz and turn them to powder, so you can rich clay minerals fraction too (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sedimentary_Rock_Chart.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sedimentary_Rock_Chart.png)) but the end product will never have the same properties like clay. There is natural rock with such genesis - loess, product of accumulation of wind-blown dust (silt) from the glaciers. Someone who know Birling Gap cliff in East Sussex http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birling_Gap#Birling_Gap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birling_Gap#Birling_Gap)
can observe natural geological profile with loess lying on chalk.
How does this fact help with the culture of cyps in pots?
- is protecting roots, rhizomes and tubers against frost in the winter time, against drought in the summer time, and all year around against infections, rotting etc. (of course in a limited way and not always)
Regards -
Kristof
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Thanks for the explanation.
I'm looking forward to seeing this in action.
Please post photos when you can.
How long have you been growing your cyps in this medium?
David
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Young cypripedium reginae form last year..survived and have a good grow !
My medium look good and very simple to growing cypripedium..look the resut ;D
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kjbpI0pqylk/UYEjW0JPyGI/AAAAAAAAAak/E-pZIG2NYGA/s1024/IMGP2230B.jpg)
Focus into Cyp.formosanum
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-poYsAqNNYlU/UYEjZTH7wHI/AAAAAAAAAa0/bN5TofAedDw/s640/IMGP2214B.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-0krpIGTnJ2Y/UYEjTAPyovI/AAAAAAAAAac/LUoxsKSMhZ0/s640/IMGP2212B.jpg)
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What is you compost composition, Botanica?
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Hello corradoerina
The composition of my cypripedium soil is very simple.
below the planting hole some pouzzolane
The Mixing.
1/3 heathland soil
1/3 garden soil if good soil with ,natural humus
1/3 river sand (only this one)
and I always add a little perlite... if I have.
above pouzzolane for slug and snail and others ...
Other used Vermiculite and Perlit in mass, someone only in mineral soil but the price is more and it's not really natural for me. ;)
Have you cypripedium in the garden..some pictures of your's ?
Have a good day and a great cypri season ! ;D
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It looks like a very gritty mix round the roots.
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1/3 heathland soil
1/3 garden soil if good soil with ,natural humus
1/3 river sand (only this one)
and I always add a little perlite
Ciao Botanica,
A lot of questions :-D
1) What is heathland soil?
2) What is the climate where you are? Your compost looks very moisture retaining.
3) River sand .... is it very fine or rather coarse?
4) What is exposition of the garden? South, North, ....?
Best,
Corrado
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Anthony Darby, the mix around the root, is the mix of culture when i received the young cypri. I use always the original mix with my own composition of soil.
Corrado, Heathland soil is a traduction of "terre de bruyère" in French form heather = bruyère in French
My climat is the climate of Ardennes in France (T° min = -22°c and max = around 35°), it' rain a lot and i need drained medium of soil.
River sand, it's very very fine sand i found that neat the house in Belgium.
The exposition of the garden is medium but i have many area with protection of the sun in semi-shading area.
I hope my responses help you so much ;D
See you soon..and if you have seed for exchange ...tel me for my Germination Project ;)
Have a good day.
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Corrado, Heathland soil is a traduction of "terre de bruyère" in French form heather = bruyère in French
My climat is the climate of Ardennes in France (T° min = -22°c and max = around 35°), it' rain a lot and i need drained medium of soil.
River sand, it's very very fine sand i found that neat the house in Belgium.
The exposition of the garden is medium but i have many area with protection of the sun in semi-shading area.
Terre de bruyere is good for me!
See you soon..and if you have seed for exchange ...tel me for my Germination Project ;)
What type of project?? We are starting a similar thing!
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I have a "educational" project around Alpines plants and some others.
I have start the project in the middle of 2012 too collected seeds and i make 400 pots for germination's.
The first seed germinated in late April and probably more this week.
I take many photos of seed germination stages to the adult plant. Before i make a microsoft powerpoint slide show (.ppt) the demonstrated the life cycle of plants .
I probably make picture of PPT in the forum (if some are interested in) .
Actually i am motivated me to collected more species for the next step in 2014 ! Because i don't want to stop the project.
You know all ;D ;)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-9dV7HkaI4Ss/UYEjc4tuPfI/AAAAAAAAAbA/obDC0ptu5pc/s640/IMGP2357B.jpg)
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Hi,
first up is a general view of the pots on greenhouse staging on the north side of the greenhouse.
They are covered with some fairly thin green polypropylene shade cloth which is held up by plastic posts tied to the staging and stapled to the wooden greenhouse.
This is not quite strong enough shading so I've stapled some white frost fleece underneath the green.
This gives a slight shadow on the plants when the sun is strongest and seems to be about right.
The next two photos shows two large tibeticums from Holger Perner at Hengduan Mountains Biotech.
They were imported this winter and planted up in March so are only just establishing.
If they'd been smaller they would probably have aborted the flowers.
The flowers should improve as the plants establish but are already pretty good,
Regards,
David
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Hi David,
Your tibeticum are splendid, but how does it happen that they are already in flower?? Where are you?? The ones I bought from Laneside are just buds!
PS: How do you contact Holger Perner? I have been trying to contact him to buy some plants, but he does not seem to answer the email.
Best,
-
They're either
1. still on 'china' time or more likely,
2. the process of importation from China has induced them into premature growth, maybe due to some higher than normal temperatures somewhere during the process.
My other tibeticums are like yours, just showing buds.
Next year will be a more useful test of their 'earliness'.
I'm on an email list from Hengduan.
They do seem to be very hot and miss at replying to their e mails.
They've issued a list in the autumn for the past two years.
Regards,
David
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This little beauty gets better every year ;D
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Hello Fred,
I am soooo envious of your C. plechtrochilum. Mine have simply disappeared. How do you grow yours?
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Fred,
Nice pectrochilum. Not one I've tried.
Best of the tibeticum flowers from Hengduan.
Seems to photograph well in full sun,
David
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David,
fabulous C. tibeticum. And thanks for correcting my spelling of C. plectrochilum. It was that sticking key. ;) ;)
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Ha! thanks Maren. Getting old.
I guess that Holger had thousands of tibeticums from which to choose his parental lines!
The veining really makes the flower stand out.
When the plant reverts to UK time maybe I'll cross it with the nice large flowered clone that came from Peter Corkhill,
Regards,
David
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David, the picture in the sun is actually even better. Splendid clone, I really hope our tibeticum looks like it. Can you post a picture also of the other clone, the one from Peter Corkhill?
Fred, the Cypripedium plectrochilum is beautiful .... how difficult is it? In what regime and conditions you grow them?
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I've posted the tibeticum in past years.
Check the posts for cyps in pots 2012 or 2011.
The flower is a similar shape but darker and without the veining,
David
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Very nice picture of cyp Monocotman, you have many number of cyp in culture..big collection !! ;)
C. plectrochilum , i don't have in my collection of cyp ..i think i test that next year !
the new buds of 2013 cyp season (most of cyp.parviflorum and cyp.pubescens)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-imT3fwiWFsw/UYgbOtD-g8I/AAAAAAAAAcI/5G_-krtrxDs/s1024/IMGP2453B.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-zjLkqtV92jo/UYgbam5CHvI/AAAAAAAAAcg/xDVJ_Yl9h08/s800/IMGP2458.jpg)
A other cyp formosanum flowering
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-uCDMs2w1Y3Q/UYqemiuHHPI/AAAAAAAAAdw/1AAXHFzwMUM/s640/IMGP2596b.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-HQeEm7-VkHA/UYs_ebCnb5I/AAAAAAAAAeA/OpQLOUIt-54/s576/IMGP2572b.jpg)
other species could flowering in some days
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Not wishing to upset anyone. NONE of my plants are from China. Holgers commercial offerings are too young for me this year and with the problems caused by the delay when he last came over I decided not to order. As the BOGA SUN rep I have been working with CITES Bristol trying to stop the importation of wild dug cypripediums from China.
My c tibeticum is from a continental breeder and most of my stock is at least three weeks behind because of the spring cold.
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Hello Fred,
I am soooo envious of your C. plechtrochilum. Mine have simply disappeared. How do you grow yours?
I believe it's in 1:1 peat / perlite Maren. It just quietly sits under the staging in my bottom greenhouse.
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Thanks, Fred, I'll try that. :)
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Hi,
a windy week has meant an anxious time and one or two bruised flowers.
First up is a macranthos from Phytesia.
Next is a white lipped fasciolatum from David at Koolplants.
I find this species slow to increase, just three flowers this year after starting to flower 5 years ago.
Last up is tibeticum 'light', another plant from Koolplants but much more vigorous.
What this exactly is, is unclear, but it keys out best to tibeticum and is not froshii.
On another note, I found a bumble bee on the lip on the nice tibeticum I posted last week.
It looked to be doing something so I shooed it off and found a neat hole left on the lip!
Anybody else found insects attacking their cyp flowers?
Regards,
David
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Hi,
this week's hybrids include this very nice Aki light from Maren.
Pretty much all yellow with a bit of red on the dorsal.
Most of these pubescens x macranthos complex hybrids I find slower than usual to increase.
Next up is 'Inge', a plant that took severe exception to being repotted in autumn 2010 and is only now looking well.
Sabine alba is next, not quite fully out but starting to look good and a real favourite and good 'doer'.
This is only the 4th year of flowering but already up to 13 buds.
Last is 'Sunny' and about the biggest plant I grow with 25 large buds and flowers.
This is it's best flowering. It is growing in a 9 or 10 inch pot.
Regards,
David
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What beautiful plants. They look so good in pots like that. 8)
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What is the secret for having all of this flowering cypripediums !!??? ???
You're the Master of Cypripedium Man !!..I so impressed :o
I hope i could have a similar flowering.... one day perhaps...
Take many pictures for us... i a fan !
See you soon.
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Botanica - there is no 'secret' to growing them - all the information is already on the forum in various threads on cyps.
I don't believe in keeping secrets on growing plants!
I don't show them so there is no competitive edge needed.
I think the advances in culture and propagation make them straight forward
for most people - certainly those in the SRGC that are used to growing alpines.
I've failed with frits and all my oncos died in the last two cold winters but these plants just keep on growing!
Regards,
David
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One clone in a pot will tend to all flower at once.
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What Beauties David....You make it look so easy.
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I'm intrigued by how many plants you have in flower - I've still got buds waiting to open on Cyp formosanum, and that usually flowers in late March.
I knew we had experienced a cold start to the season, but hadn't realised it was that cold... :-\
Looking on the bright side, at least the plants will benefit from the cooler weather.
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Peter,
it does sound like you are very late. Where do you live?
A couple more hybrids flowering, both pale clones made by using macranthos alba instead of the normal colour form.
First up is Michael alba. This year it is stubbornly hanging onto a green cast on the flowers which should eventually turn white. A vigorous grex and easy to grow. It only started to flower 2 years ago and already has 9 growths with 10 flowers.
Next up is Renate pastel. This one has flower reminiscent of Sabine. The first photo shows the plant 2 years ago, first year with me when it was a weedy thing with a precocious flower.
This grex didn't seem to be available for that long, I think this one came from Edrom.
Not sure if it is one of Michael Wienerts.
This plant is one of those that really benefited from last year's cool summer.
The increase in growth this year is pretty surprising.
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photos of Michael alba and Renate pastel.
Quite a difference in the flower of Renate pastel now the plant is older,
David
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Peter, it does sound like you are very late. Where do you live?
We're shivering in the frozen wastes of Newcastle upon Tyne! ;D
Most things have been incredibly late this year - I have a potful of Pterostylis curta that was in the peak of condition for our Hexham show last year on it's usual date of the last weekend in March and it's only just about at it's best now. It's not that I'm worried about my Cyps, they're all coming though and there are buds there, but nothing has opened fully yet, although one of my potfuls of Ulla Silkens has gone from nothing visible to about 10cms high in a week.
The plants are largely outside on the north side of the alpine house which is itself tucked into a south facing space between the house and high wall adjoining the main road. It can get quite warm there in the summer, and I mist the plants automatically twice a day, but it's also a windy site and it's been both cool and windy so far this year.
Hopefully pictures will follow in a week or so!
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Most things have been incredibly late this year -
- not only in Newcastle upon Tyne, across Europe is the same situation - in Poland, Germany and in London too. I don't remember so late flowering time of lords & ladies or wild garlic. I got 23 pots with Cypripedium, all year around outside without any cover and without one single drop of fertiliser & hormones, only 3 are flowering now. Two are hybrids with C.segawai as one parent, pot number 3 is a bit crazy - this is one of this plants from Germany with damaged roots, so last year Vegetation finished very quickly and now season started very early. Regards -
Kristof
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fresh informations from Yahoo UK:
"Britons could be forgiven for thinking summer may finally be on the way - but some parts of the UK are enduring one last wintry weather blast. Cold temperatures and heavy rainfall in Devon and Yorkshire have subjected some areas to flooding and even snow, as spring and summer continue to stay away.Forecasters said the conditions were 'fairly unusual for May', as winds of 65mph struck the south west overnight. There was also reported snowfall in Shropshire. Trees came down and homes were left without power in Cornwall, while 14 flood alerts remain in place in the south west following heavy rain on Monday. Sheila Coates, from Princetown, told the BBC: 'It's crazy. When I went to bed last night I couldn't see out of my front window for the snow.I've lived here all my life and I've never known weather like it at this time of year '"
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We can definitively testify for Yorkshire ....
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Peter mine are well behind. Last year they were nearly all flowering for the Aberdeen show but I have only three flowering the others are still in bud. I took these in my greenhouse that I could enjoy the flowers. The day before we had hail and really strong winds.
Not a very good picture but you can see that three are in flower, not sure what happened to the little fellow.
Angie :)
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Hi Angie,
Beautiful!
What is the short stemmed dark red flower, a C. calcicola?
Best,
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That's a very tidy greenhouse, you can even see places to walk on the floor - wish mine was like that. :-\
Corrado, I'd guess the short stemmed dark red one is Cyp tibeticum, based on the pale rim to the pouch.
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Peter it usually is full to bursting point but since hubby was left to do the watering when I was away I put lots of plants in the poly tunnel that allowed him to water easily with the hosepipe.
If your greenhouse is full that means you don't kill your plants ;D
Yes it is Cyp,tibeticum ( not sure why it's so short ). The other two I will have to look up the names yet again. I think I will have to start putting the labels deep into the soil as they keep being thrown out of the pots.
Hopefully the rest will start flowering soon, is spring on its way :-\
Angie :)
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Wow Angie , Peter .... my Cypripedium are just small growth .... but I keep them outside .... tonight it was again very close to 4C.
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Lovely to see Angie. 8)
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Fantastic, Angie. I'd better get the vacuum cleaner out to my greenhouse!
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A couple more Cypripedium now in flower.
1 & 2. Cypripedium guttatum, this one is small but striking.
3 & 4. Cypripedium fasciolatum
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Nice Cypripedium guttatum !
I have a Cypripedium guttatum this year but i wait the new leaf and flowers :P
This week other species must flowering...i wait that ;D
Thanks for all cyp picture...i am CypriAddict
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I don't know much about Cypripedium, but looks like - C.japonicum is growing not too bad in Essex-clay:
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Lovely to see Angie. 8)
Still really enjoying your plants Anthony :)
Fantastic, Angie. I'd better get the vacuum cleaner out to my greenhouse!
I shall take a picture of my potting shed, space for me to turn is about all. I bet everyone has a tidy potting shed. I never seem to be able to keep this tidy.
Angie :)
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Hi angie,
lovely show of Cypripediums. The C. tibeticum is naturally short, nothing to be concerned about. You have done well!!! :) :) :)
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Hi angie,
lovely show of Cypripediums. The C. tibeticum is naturally short, nothing to be concerned about. You have done well!!! :) :) :)
Maren I thought it was like me not liking this cold wind and keeping its head down ;)
Angie :)
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...or me. But look at this picture of Holger Perner's C. tibeticum in the wild. My theory is that they need something to rest their big pouches on, even if it is the ground ;) ;) ;)
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Maren they are so lovely and nice to see that they grow in that way. Thanks for sharing the picture :)
Angie :)
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Angie, your plants are looking good and that japonicum seems to like Essex clay.
Let's see what it looks like in a year's time.
A cold week has meant plants have developed slowly.
First up is Gabriela ( kentuckiense x fasciolatum) although it was bought as Florence.
Another mislabelled hybrid to go with the rest, but a quick and easy grower.
Next is Sabine alba fully out. About my favourite hybrid at present.
The lip is actually the same cream colour as the petals although this isn't shown by the photo.
Lastly is segawai x fasciolatum, a short, slightly ungainly plant that I hope will improve.
The lip of some did not develop properly during early growth due to the presence of a 2nd flower,
Regards,
David
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David thats a wonderful collection. The rest of mine are still in bud, it to has been really cold here and everything is well behind.
Most of my Cyps are grown in a mix of pumice, perlite and cat litter. My leaves are paler than I once had, mabe I am not feeding enough. I havent any cyps, in Essex clay. I do not think it would be a success with me, to much rain up here. I am going to try a couple in just perlite when I repot.
Thanks for all the advice that you have shared with us.
Angie :)
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I havent any cyps, in Essex clay. I do not think it would be a success with me, to much rain up here.
- exactly because of the rain, I'm keeping my Cypripedium in clay :)
Kristof
P.S. To avoid too quickly drying out, I started to cover everything with the gravel (crashed marble or granite) on the top.
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Angie,
it is difficult to over feed cyps at this time of year when they're growing so fast.
I feed mine every weekend at this time of year.
It's especially important when they've had plenty of rain.
Nitrogen can leach out of an inorganic compost very quickly,
David
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Hi Angie,
for pale leaves I give a dose of Epsom salts. Works well, also on vegetables. ;) ;) ;)
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Are you bringing your Cyps along to the display in the Duthie Park tomorrow, Angie? I hope enough people bring plants to make it worth while.
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Yes Roma I dropped of a couple off earlier today and a couple of other plants, looking forward to see your plants tomorrow. I think it's a rainy day tomorrow so I do hope they get a good turn out.
Angie :)
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Angie,
it is difficult to over feed cyps at this time of year when they're growing so fast.
I feed mine every weekend at this time of year.
It's especially important when they've had plenty of rain.
Nitrogen can leach out of an inorganic compost very quickly,
David
With all the rain that we have had lately I thought my feed would just be washed away ;) I will give the others a bit more feeding. David when do you start feeding your plants, is it once you see growth.
Maren I remember you giving me this advice before . I forgot, my brain just doesn't hold anything in :'(
Angie :)
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Angie,
over the years I've brought my feeding earlier and earlier in the year.
They need most of their annual nitrogen requirement early in the season to build the green stems and foliage.
When you think they go from nothing above ground to fully extended stems/leaves/flowers in about a month then that is a huge ask for the resources of the plant and you need to help them along as much as possible.
After that the requirement for nitrogen will drop off a cliff.
So I start to feed general purpose feed as soon as the pots come out of their winter hibernation.
They then receive feed once a week, in rain water if possible, as we've discussed already.
Once flowering is over then the regime can relax considerably as the plants recuperate from the rapid spring growth and start to build for next year.
The skeleton for building for next year has been made and the leaves will gently continue to photosynthesise for the rest of the year and transfer sugars to the rhizome, roots and new basal buds.
So it is important to keep the plants unstressed and happy during the summer whilst this is happening.
Last year's cool weather was great for this and that is why they're showing a big increase in size this spring.
Later in the year you start to see the roots grow quickly. This is always apparent when you repot late in the season and when the plants appreciate a tomato feed.
I start with this high potash feed in July.
Regards,
David
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Thanks David I think a lot of us will find ths helpful. Before I joined the forum I killed more of these Cypripediums than I would like to admit to. I thought they would need a lot of protection especially up here in the cold north but I soon discovered that they liked the cold.
My first shock was when I read that Anthony Darby left his pots of Cyps, out in temperatures of -21c.
They are wonderful plants and I am grateful that you share your knowledge.
Angie :)
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Angie,
I did the same when I first started with a cyp reginae.
I thought it would be better under the greenhouse staging than outdoors.
It did not last very long at all!
They all hate the heat.
If we had summers like last year every year then they'd all grow like weeds,
regards,
David
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David,
Thank you for the information on your feeding regime - I've tended to under feed in the past, so have found that plants bulk up slowly to a certain size, then things seem to take off and there is a rapid increase in size, often nearly doubling each year. I've started a better feeding regime this year, not just in Cyps, as reduced pressures of work allow me more gardening time. :D
Incidentally, I've also started to top-dress my pots with the expanded clay pellets you use as we have a serious snail problem here, and aim to try not use use chemical control in the pots if I can avoid it, although it is the only place where I use pellets other than in the greenhouse in pots of hepaticas. I will let people know if it's worked for me.
Looks this summer is shaping up to match last year - woke up to standing water on the patio this morning. I look forward to the new weeds!
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Angie,
If we had summers like last year every year then they'd all grow like weeds,
regards,
David
David lets hope so ;D ;D ;D
Angie :)
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Hi,
here is a link to a video I took this morning of my cyps.
It's a first attempt and uses the video feature on my Canon S2 camera.
The quality is not the best, some of the colours are a bit washed out,
but you get the idea.
Maybe next time I'll add some commentary.
http://youtu.be/eDTe_NB52fg (http://youtu.be/eDTe_NB52fg)
Regards,
David
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Hi,
here is a link to a video I took this morning of my cyps.
It's a first attempt and uses the video feature on my Canon S2 camera.
The quality is not the best, some of the colours are a bit washed out,
but you get the idea.
Maybe next time I'll add some commentary.
Regards,
David
You're just growing a few then, David? ;)
I love the whites.
I think the video gives a super feeling of immediacy to the plants - more exciting than straight photos -thanks for posting!
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Absolutely stunning range of plants David: the video gives a far better impression of the range of plants than even your photos have, and we can see the ones you are going to see in still photograph form when they bulk up further. ;)
Incidentally - the video link did not show up in my browser on the forum website (I use Firefox). The fact that I actually opened Windows Explorer to see the link shows you how keen I was to see the video. ;D
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Brilliant video and brilliant Cyps, 8) I would love to have a collection like yours. I better get buying again.
Angie :)
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Thanks for the comments - it seems to have worked.
I was hoping that you'd get much more of a feel for the plants than you do with photos.
Not bad when you're not so tech savvy.
Only problem was it took an hour to load onto youtube!
Peter - I've never had slug problems and there are some big b****s around now after last year's monsoon.
I'm assuming that it is the hydroleca but maybe I was just lucky?
Maggi - you know what it is like when you find that you like a genus and can grow them?
'Stamp collecting' mode kicks in and it is sometimes difficult to stop.
I'm about at my limit now. Will get rid of some at the end of this season,
David
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David,
The snail/slug damage is generally limited to damage to the outer layers buds as they emerge - not fatal, but it spoils the look of the plant, espcially if you are showing, as I do if peak flowering coincides with an easily accessible show (not often!)
I'm about at my limit now. Will get rid of some at the end of this season
If you are selling any surplus at the end of the season - I have space, and according to Maggi when she is acting auctioneer, money to burn! ;D ;D
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David, I love your definition of a few .... what a wondrous collection!
Can I join the queue when you start getting rid of them? I have just started my collection and have only 3 .... which is really few, as in the Oxford Dictionary .... :-)
Thanks also for the feeding regime, it is very helpful for us beginners. Can you also tell us which fertilisers you use, or at least which NPK ratio and in what state (liquid or solid but soluble)?
By the way, one of my few, the tibeticum, has been very badly damaged by slugs .... does the clay limit the damage by slugs? (Peter, what do you think?) I do not even know how the slugs got there in the first place, the cyp is on a "moat" filled with water .... or are there other insects who can nib at the leaves?
Best,
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Most of the time I use the usual white/blue powders - nothing exotic or the 'muck and magic' miracle gro types.
No need for expensive trace elements.
Later in the year I switch to tomato feed and a couple of times I add some Epsom salts to the feed.
I can honestly say that I've never had any slug damage on any cyps and I've used hydroleca for several years.
David
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I can honestly say that I've never had any slug damage on any cyps and I've used hydroleca for several years.
- as everybody knows, all my Cypripedium are permanently outdoors without any cover - and no one time I had any slugs/snails damage. And they are everywhere around (mostly garden snails - Helix aspersa).
Kristof
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Corrado,
I don't yet know the answer to your question about the clay (hydroleca) granules; ask me again in the autumn. ;)
I have my plants standing on raised trays filled with sand - helps to maintain a moist atmosphere around the plants. Before the pots are placed in the stand at the beginning of the season, the sand is watered with a liquid slug/snail killer which seems to keep them away for a month or two as the new shots emerge.
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I have had a henryi levelled overnight in the past, it has taken two years to reflower, and already this year several shoots and leaves have been nibbled, this despite my pots standing on a bed of gravel, a grit top dressing and having copper tape around the pots' rims, so yes slugs are a problem.
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Incidentally - the video link did not show up in my browser on the forum website (I use Firefox). The fact that I actually opened Windows Explorer to see the link shows you how keen I was to see the video. ;D
How odd, I use Firefox and all is well here...... :-X
Quote from: monocotman on May 18, 2013, 09:38:22 PM
I can honestly say that I've never had any slug damage on any cyps and I've used hydroleca for several years.
I am fascinated that the use of these clay granules seems to stop slug and snail damage - I am at a loss to understand why...... :-\
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The clay granules possible work best when they are relatively dry as the may have a dehydrating effect on the snail? I tended to have more palatable plants to temp the slugs?
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I only have one Cyp,bought by my daughter for my Xmas present this year. Could this be the best present EVER.It cetainly beats a tie!![attach=1]
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Nice plant.
But the blue one behind it is even better! ;) ;D ;D
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But the blue one behind it is even better!
- Cypripedium is probably Kentucky Maxi (fasciolatum x kentuckiense) but this one on the wall looks like very rare hybrid Echinacea x Forget Me Not !!! ;D
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Glad you like both plants.
The Cyp came from Jeff and is C.victoria.
The one behind is a Picasso and unfortunately not an original.
;D
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Cypripedium is probably Kentucky Maxi (fasciolatum x kentuckiense)
Nearly right! Cyp 'Victoria' is parviflorum var pubescens x fasciolatum :D
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David - you really have the conditions right for growing as do some others including Angie - despite what she says.
Here's C. 'Pixie' another of Angie's well grown plants, now residing with me. Thanks Angie :)
Most of mine in pots aren't going to flower this year - a backward step, but I shall persevere. Don't think I'll buy any more though until the ones I have are doing better.
Graham
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Graham,
your conditions ought to be good for cyps with heat stress being unlikely in summer.
Your problems would be more to do with frost/cold winter and pots.
The leaves of Pixi seem to be fairly pale although there are plenty of growths.
My clone has quite dark leaves unlike something , say like Inge or Michael which are paler.
How much feed are you giving to your plants at this time of year?
David
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Hi David,
Thanks for your interest in my Cyps.
I have been growing species not hybrids for about five years now, (Pixie and Gisele from Angie being the exceptions), and started by using the compost mixes in Philip Cribbs book or as close to it as I could get for each species and all seemed well. Then I changed to a mix of pumice, perlite, cat litter and fine bark in various combinations. Then things started to go down hill. Although I haven't had a feeding regime in all that time. More hit and miss. This year I am going to concentrate a little more on them and have started to feed once a week with full strength Miracle Gro (because that's what I have on store). I hope that is ok. :-\ I will change to tomato feed in July as you do.
None are in plastic pots although some of them are in a non-natural material but I don't know what it is.
They are in a place in the garden that gets the sun in the morning but has passed by 11.00am. In winter they are left outside but moved to a sheltered corner of the garden with a rain cover to keep the worst of the winter wet off.
If yours are growing in nothing but super course perlite than perhaps I should try that and not worry about other mixes.
I am amazed by the quality of yours and thought the video was a great way of showing them.
Graham
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Hey monocotman, (and other cypri lovers!)
Look my new flowering ..i am so happy for the result !
It's a good year of cypri in the Garden..
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Nc0bWnoB9JQ/UZkaBynz2mI/AAAAAAAAAkM/IqP6vr-sGoE/s640/IMGP2888b.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-T0SfzX_NGEA/UZkaCKf_P9I/AAAAAAAAAkI/BJfW0QPp_j0/s720/IMGP2892b.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-H7BNNhaxKoE/UZk1_eo9xiI/AAAAAAAAAkw/GVC9GVo5naA/s640/IMGP2759b.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ry8ztdrvkBY/UZkaB1Rcg1I/AAAAAAAAAkE/xLXYEaNToE4/s640/IMGP2898b.jpg)
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Graham I am going to try perlite like David is doing, it will be interesting to see how we get on. You can blame the pale leaves on Pixi on me, my other pixi is the same. I really am a bit confused as some of my cyps, have nice green leaves. I do think that I haven't been feeding them enough.
Its great that David has shared his expertise with us. Hope next year we will have nice healthy plants ::) :-X
Botanica thanks for sharing your lovely Cyps.
Angie :)
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I used quarter strength Miracle-Gro® on species and full strength on hybrids once a fortnight, as recommended by Michael Weinert, and he should know.
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Another cyp, flowering today.
Cypripedium Memoriam Shawna Austin
Angie :)
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Angie, that is nice. Mine died!
David
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Lovely colour to that flower Angie, and it's nice to see one that isn't iilustrated in the new Frosch and Cribb Cypripedium book, they seem to have covered most of the others.
It looks like it ought to taste of raspberries, but I'm sure you havn't tried.....? ::)
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Lovely colour to that flower Angie, and it's nice to see one that isn't iilustrated in the new Frosch and Cribb Cypripedium book, they seem to have covered most of the others.
It looks like it ought to taste of raspberries, but I'm sure you havn't tried.....? ::)
Hope it doesn't taste like raspberries as I love raspberries ;D ;D
David I can't believe that you can kill plants, you have such a lovely collection. I think I am hooked on these cyps, usually I try and grow plants that don't like our cold. I just need to get the feeding right and I would also like a pure white cypripedium, all mine have pink marks on them.
Angie :)
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Ciao Angie,
Lovely colour!
To the experts: the Memoriam should not simply be classified as a variety of C. x ventricosum????
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Is it OK to use something like Osmocote slow release pellets on cyps in perlite? Would it remove the need to use liquid feed, for those of us not so organised?
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Anne, I'm guessing here as I've been guilty in the past of underfeeding, but I would say no.
All the advice seems to be of regular, weekly feeding, but flushing away the excess mineral salts with plain water between weekly feeds. Using osmocote would concentrate the chemicals for a whole season in one place. The other potential problem would be that fertilizer release by osmocote is, I believe, temperature dependant and given the weather we've had so far this year, the plants would be starving by now!
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Anne, I'm guessing here as I've been guilty in the past of underfeeding, but I would say no.
All the advice seems to be of regular, weekly feeding, but flushing away the excess mineral salts with plain water between weekly feeds. Using osmocote would concentrate the chemicals for a whole season in one place. The other potential problem would be that fertilizer release by osmocote is, I believe, temperature dependant and given the weather we've had so far this year, the plants would be starving by now!
...or, given warmer weather, have been grossly overfed..... :P
We gave up using Osmocote in pots for just that reason...... a warm spell caused big problems :-X
(I'm talking about bulbs here, not orchids, but I see the same difficulty occurring.)
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Just realised that Angie's Cypripedium 'Memoriam Shawna Austin' is also pictured in 'Goofy's Cyps 2013' reply 21, where the colour of the pouch of Dieter's plant is much paler. It's interesting to see the range of variation that can occur in just one hybrid.
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.... 'Goofy's Cyps 2013' reply 21, where the colour of the pouch of Dieter's plant is much paler. It's interesting to see the range of variation that can occur in just one hybrid.
hello,
its very pale this year, which I found also on several other "red" flowered.
such as my ventricosums and others.
It may be an effect from the bad, cold weather here.
(I will look for the "original" clone pic,
when I registered the Shawna for my friend Carl Austin, you will NOT believe)
BUT I am happy, that the cold weather has a very positive effect
on my Ulla Silkens cultivar from Peter Corkhill.
that cultivar is very sensitive to the temps
and makes this year the deepest color I have ever had in the past 11 years.
I love cold rainy weather :D
pic will follow next days..............
cheers
dieter
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hello,
this is the "original clone picture"
Memoriam Shawna Austin
(http://www.bildercache.de/bild/20130525-105225-711.jpg)
Believe it or not :D
(Carl named it in memory of his daughter,
who died with 30 years from a car accident)
cheers
-
The colour is really special .... can you also post a picture of the flower close up? It is interesting that a clone could show such variation ....
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Temperature when forming affects the colour of the flowers. Even flowers on the same stem can be different.
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cultivar is very sensitive to the temps
and makes this year the deepest color I have ever had in the past 11 years.
- Dieter, do you know what Austin and Corkhill are thinking about differences between "Shawna Austin" and "Pixie"? This could be very interesting thing to be a witness to such talk :)
Regards -
Kristof
P.S. I would like to buy a single nose from this original plant - if this is possible, please just let me know..
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- Dieter, do you know what Austin and Corkhill are thinking about differences between "Shawna Austin" and "Pixie"? This could be very interesting thing to be a witness to such talk :)
Regards -
Kristof
P.S. I would like to buy a single nose from this original plant - if this is possible, please just let me know..
hello,
no, I dont know about that question.
I know that Carl Austin was very ill at about the time wwhen I registered the hybrid for him.
and I know that, the original plant - due to the healthsituation- was given to a person who cultivated it to death.............
I received a very small piece of it, but arrived in "deadly" condition,
so the original clone unfortunately is gone for ever.
the Shawna was made with "hotei", the Pixi is made with tibeticum.
but wwhen I compare my Pixi with my current cultivars of Shawna (from dutch source)
indeed there are only slightly differences ???
sometimes I think, the sowers mixes up the tags on the seedlingsflasks
and make registrations only to become "prominent" and promote business ;D
cheers
PS just look at "Prof. Robatsch" or "Aasee",
for me these are fakes...............
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The colour is really special .... can you also post a picture of the flower close up? It is interesting that a clone could show such variation ....
sorry, no other picture received that times from Carl.
and the plant is dead :(
sorry
cieter
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sometimes I think, the sowers mixes up the tags on the seedlingsflasks
and make registrations only to become "prominent" and promote business ;D
- and you are not the only one ;D
Thanks for the answer
Kristof
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I reckon 20% of the hybrids I buy turn out to be something else.
It is always a relief when something flowers for the first time and looks 'right'.
This is taking into account the large amount of possible variation in parental material, especially in the species in the macranthos complex,
Regards,
David
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Here's a little number I chanced upon. Looks like it has a lot of C. fasciolatum in it.
Any ideas about the hybrid cultivar name appreciated.
Cypripedium x ?
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Looks like it has a lot of C. fasciolatum in it.
- looks like kentuckiense
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Hi,
another cool week with slow development.
First up is 'Ingrid', bought from Maren a couple of years ago. Tiny flowers when compared to some but still pretty.
'Sabine' and a 2nd clone of 'Sunny' ( I think - another mislabelled plant) are next.
Lastly is one of two (?) x ventricosum albums from Crustacare, bought as macranthos red Russian, also posted last year.
Flowers are bigger this year and have super substance.
Regards,
David
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Hi,
first up is macranthos pink from floralpin.
I find macranthos clones the most likely to lose flowers over winter due to low temps.
This plant has 6 growths but only this one has a flower.
Next is parviflorum var 'makasin'. This is supposed to be scented but this clone certainly isn't.
A normal x ventricosum follows. A quick grower - 17 growths this year up from 9 last year.
Lastly is the large tibeticum with 10 buds. Not quite fully out.
Regards,
David
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Fred,
Any ideas about the hybrid cultivar name appreciated.
I would agree that it probably has kentuckyense in there somewhere, fasciolatum generally has a toothed margin to the pouch with more ribbing in the pouch also. However in kentuckyense the side petals generally show condierable spriral twisting, so it's probably a kentuckyense hybrid, as to which..... is anybody's guess.
You could have a look at the parentage list on Werner Frosch's website: http://www.w-frosch.de/Cypris/Hybriden/hyb_elt.htm (http://www.w-frosch.de/Cypris/Hybriden/hyb_elt.htm)
Scroll down to kentuckyense and you will find 22 possible parents of registered hybrids - that's when the guessing fun starts. ;)
David,
Another lovely range of plants again, and an eloquent advertisement for your growing techniques - which I have now adopted fully, especially the feeding regime. :D
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David,
Another lovely range of plants again, and an eloquent advertisement for your growing techniques - which I have now adopted fully, especially the feeding regime. :D
I think we will all be doing exactly what David has been doing. What a show 8). I can't wait till my collection grows more.
Angie :)
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I think we will all be doing exactly what David has been doing.
- not me, all my plants will be definitely all year around outdoor.
Kristof
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Hi,
first up is Aki - I find this a slow grower for a hybrid.
This plant started to flower in 2007, six years ago.
Next is an unknown (not for the first time) - bought as 'Pluto' but obviously wrong.
It is quite a short grower so my feeling is that it is probably the tibeticum hybrid 'Pixi'.
Any other thoughts would be welcome,
Regards,
David
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hello David,
I think that it is not Pixi, but have not an idea yet what it could be :(
maybe something with paviflorum / pubescens, but not with tibeticum ...............?
(look at the Pixi in my thread)
cheers
-
Any other thoughts would be welcome,
- and what's the size of the lip?
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Lovely plant whatever it is. 8)
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Lovely plant whatever it is. 8)
I was thinking exactly that ;)
I bought two new ones at Gardening Scotland today ;D
Angie :)
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The unknown is a mid sized flower, about the size of a x ventricosum.
It could be another of these.
Someone else has suggested Carol Ilene.
The plant came from Crustacare as a seedling but it is possible that the blackbirds had
something to do with the mislabelling over the years I've had it.
I have another seedling labelled as the same cross.
This should flower next year. Maybe this will help identify the cross.
Thanks for all the suggestions,
David
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Gisela?
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Maybe we'll never know.
A few more from today.
A new and tiny franchetti, the plant is barely 4 inches high.
For contrast, Lucy pinkepank is a large plant with huge flowers.
For comparison is a photo with the small flowered Ingrid.
David
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Some more beauties there David. I really like your Cyp, franchetti 8)
Angie :)
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Did any cyps appear at this year's SRGC shows?
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Hi David,
I've been looking for C. Lucy Pinkepank for some time, if you ever have too many shoots, I'll happily buy some from you. :) :)
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Maren, I have a 2nd plant about the same size as this so maybe this autumn...
x ventricosum album from Mr Frosch.
A very vigorous grex if not quite the impact of that a pure white
flower would have.
Michael with 25 shoots but not quite the flower power of previous years.
Lastly the star plat this year - the large tibeticum I've posted before.
20 growths and 10 flowers.
This is the plant I posted repotting photos of last autumn in the cyps in pots 2012 thread.
I repotted it when it was just starting to show signs of dying down but the roots were still active.
I'd read that cyps re-establish better when disturbed at this stage.
It worked here. No signs of the usual transplant shock,
Regards,
David
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Wow David, fine plants. Your Cypripedium tibeticum is particularly great. I have never seen such a before.
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Hi David,
truly lovely C. tibeticum. Great news about the C. Lucy Pinkepank. If you do have a spare, please let me know closer to the time. thanks.
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David that last picture of Cyp, tibeticum is wonderful. I wish I was in your garden at this time to see this wonderful display of Cypripediums.
Angie :)
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My 'Lucy Pinkepank' was just starting to flower when I parted with it. Those plants are absolutely amazing David.
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Im going to second that..David your plants are amazing!! that tibeticum wow! You really have mastered cultivating Cyps. You must be tending to them daily as not miss the show.
Are you doing anything differant this year culture wise?
cheers
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Im going to second that..David your plants are amazing!! that tibeticum wow! You really have mastered cultivating Cyps. You must be tending to them daily as not miss the show.
Are you doing anything differant this year culture wise?
Stephen - not really - a few tweaks.
I'm fertilizing more frequently (weekly) as they start off growing and using rain water so there is plenty of room for feed.
I'm convinced that the big improvement this year is mainly due to last year's wet cool summer that didn't stress the plants at all,
Regards,
David
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Hi,
I was shown this link on another forum.
Interesting reading!
http://culturesheet.org/_media/users:nanoj:nanoj_16_1:martin_4-11.pdf (http://culturesheet.org/_media/users:nanoj:nanoj_16_1:martin_4-11.pdf)
Regards,
David
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I can see the sense in growing them in trays to allow the roots to spread. Unfortunately UK-sized gardens just don't have the space for us to do this, at least mine doesn't.
The effecs of a mid-continental climate are interesting; Kansas obviously gets so hot in the summer that Cyps are better indoors (air conditioning?), and as for taking them indoors when tornadoes are forecast.... I'll never complain about British weather again.
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Peter - I agree about the space issue.
90 boxes not pots would be way too much to look after.
I know that Peter Corkhill used to use polystyrene fish boxes for his largest plants.
Must be a similar setup.
Regards,
David
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I don't even have room for 90 pots :o. I'm having to be very selective about buying new Cyps. :'(
Regarding polystyrene boxes - I'm currently using a fish box for growing Plieones in small pond baskets. The whole box and the baskets are filled with the same compost so they have a good root run, but different species/ clones can be kept apart. It's useful for bulking up small numbers of bulbils to flowering size bulbs (the way I usually acquire them as it's cheaper that way and I have the patience!) and I use an organic mix for Plieones so a large fish box is not too heavy and just about possible to move around.
I use a smaller polystyrene box (originally used for supplying broccoli to green grocers) for growing Cyp seedlings. They're in a mineral mix and although the box is about 1/3 the size of the fish box, it's much more than 1/3 of the weight. They're useful sized boxes and eminently portable, but I understand from my source (who lurks on this forum as 'The Butcher') that we might not be able to get any more, which is a shame as I have one with Roscoeas, one with Gentians, another with Saxifrages.......
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David thanks for the link. Really interesting.
I don't even have room for 90 pots :o. I'm having to be very selective about buying new Cyps. :'(
Peter I have a pony paddock that is no longer in use. You can easy buy more cyps and I can look after them here for you ::) :-X
Angie :)
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This Pixi is now the biggest plant I grow with over 40 growths and 25 flowers.
They look a bit dull in shade but come alive in sunshine,
Regards,
David
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That is fabulous. Congratulations ;D ;D ;D.
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I agree Maren. 8)
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...but my first filing was - what a beautiful "Axel"...
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Thanks for the comments.
Kris - No doubt about the parentage on this one.
The plant came as a seeding from Peter Corkhill in 2006/7.
There are plenty of web photos of Pixi with flowers like this.
Just have a google.
The photo does not show too well the fact that the flowers are quite big (about 4 inches across)
and way too big for a first generation parviflorum cross,
David
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Just one word David, Amazing 8)
Angie :)
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Not many left to flower now.
These are two closely related hybrids, Philipp ( kentuckiense x macranthos)
and Cleo Pinkepank (kentuckiense x macranthos var hotei atsumorianum).
Pretty similar apart from the lip colour,
David
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A couple more this week.
First is Dietrich (kentuckiense x calceolus), a vigorous grower with two flowers on most growths.
Next is flavum album - a small plant just over 6 inches high with a very pretty flower.
The leaves are almost furry with the amount of hairs,
David
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Dietrich sure puts on a show and flavum album is a beauty what an achievement.
cheers
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It's too dark for good photos, but because I have never time... Cypripedium californicum and one of dutch hybrid "Kentucky Pink" (I have a few version what this could be).
Kristof
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David, the flavum is spectacular .... all your plants look so extraordinarily healthy ....
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Hi,
thanks for the comments.
Kris, the Kentucky pink looks like Philipp.
Last two for this year.
The reginae also enjoyed last summer.
Much bigger this year with some stems with two flowers.
The plant is now much taller (about 2 feet) and has stems with 7 leaves,
other species/hybrids tend to have 3-5 leaves.
Kentuckiense has also doubled in size. Also with one stem with two flowers.
It really is a spectacular species but nowhere near as tall as reginae.
This clone is nearer 15 inches high.
Regards,
David
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Lovely plants, well done ! :)
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David another fantastic display, mine are now all over. Looking forward now till next year. Will be trying out Davids methods so I hope it works for me.
Angie :)