Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Specific Families and Genera => Pleione and Orchidaceae => Topic started by: Tony Willis on February 11, 2013, 11:49:39 AM

Title: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Tony Willis on February 11, 2013, 11:49:39 AM
First of mine starting to flower

Ophrys lutea which has been out about three weeks

Orchis anatolica

Orchis morio called by some Anacamptis morio
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Maren on February 11, 2013, 02:30:06 PM
Lovely plants and flowers. Would you say they are earlier than usual?
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Tony Willis on February 11, 2013, 03:43:24 PM
Lovely plants and flowers. Would you say they are earlier than usual?

Not an easy time to place them, the lutea has varied between 31st December and 15th April and the anatolica 25th January  to 2nd April. The morio by only a couple of weeks.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: sottych on February 11, 2013, 08:28:35 PM
Beautiful Tony
But here in my country the flowers of Orchis Morio come in April/May it's very early !
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Gerhard Raschun on February 11, 2013, 10:07:57 PM
nice clone of O. anatolica in best condition !

Here are the starters in my collection
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: SteveC2 on February 15, 2013, 03:41:47 PM
I know it's now called Neotinea maculata, but it used to be an Orchis so I'll include it here.  Dense flowered orchid, a curiosity rather than a great looker, found in the Med and on the west coast of Ireland.  Self pollinates, often before the flowers open, but in close up the flowers are rather cute.  Books all say between 4 and 40 cm tall. guess which end of the scale mine falls in at?  It's tiny.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Tony Willis on February 15, 2013, 07:58:15 PM
Steve
nice to see and seems very early.

I will modify the title of the thread!
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: SteveC2 on February 15, 2013, 08:06:10 PM
Certainly is early, but I'm blaming last year's lack of summer, particularly the cool evenings.  It started growing on August 17, two months earlier than the previous year.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Hans A. on February 28, 2013, 10:32:05 PM
Beautiful plants Tony and Gerhard - here first Ophrys araneola and second an orchid with missing chlorophyll, I now transplanted it and hope it will become green... any other recommendations are very welcome!
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on March 01, 2013, 07:07:22 PM
No sign of flowers coming on my A. morio
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Miriam on March 10, 2013, 06:55:23 PM
Some pictures of Orchids near Jerusalem:
 Orchis galilaea
 Cephalanthera longifolia
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Maren on March 10, 2013, 07:31:26 PM
Hi,
that is the loveliest picture of Cephalanthera longifolia I have ever seen. Thank you so much for sharing.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Tony Willis on March 10, 2013, 07:34:01 PM
Miriam

very lovely and so early. When I have seen Cephalanthera longifolia in Greece and Spain it has been in flower in May
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Tony Willis on March 13, 2013, 02:08:47 PM
Another couple struggling through the cold

Ophrys fusca

Orchis papilionacae
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Maggi Young on March 13, 2013, 02:23:56 PM
Quote
I see winter finished a couple of days ago so should we not be moving on to spring?

Another couple struggling through the cold

Still sure that it is spring, Tony?
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Tony Willis on March 13, 2013, 02:44:29 PM
Still sure that it is spring, Tony?

Well it was for a few days,at least the pond thawed this morning for an hour or so and it is only snowing lightly.

Those two have been huddling together frost free.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: frits.kp on March 13, 2013, 04:38:46 PM
Very nice Tony, I'm jealous of a heated house and the quality of your orchids.  Just back from Portugal, here are my wild pictures, have a hundred pictures but don't want to crash the site.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: frits.kp on March 13, 2013, 04:41:53 PM
a few more
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: frits.kp on March 13, 2013, 04:44:52 PM
Oh no I don't know when to stop.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Tony Willis on March 13, 2013, 04:57:21 PM
Kevin 

not heated just frost free, min 2c, so they are slow.

Yours in the wild are superb and I am off to Crete in two weeks and expect to see a lot in their natural surroundings there.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Maggi Young on March 13, 2013, 05:36:35 PM
Looks  like a very successful photographic trip to Portugal, Kevin - I particularly like that furry little chap in the last shot in "reply 18"  -  ophrys sp1.JPG

Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: fredg on March 13, 2013, 06:22:57 PM
Any chance of replacing those photos with larger ones Kevin?
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: frits.kp on March 13, 2013, 06:52:20 PM
In reply.
Maggi, I am not sure which species it is, i think its a poorly Mirror orchid.
Fredg, bigger pictures, I am not sure, it took three attempts to post these, I keep getting "image is to large"
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Neil on March 14, 2013, 12:49:40 AM
Some pictures of Orchids near Jerusalem:
 Orchis galilaea
 Cephalanthera longifolia

Lovely photos of Orchis galilaea
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Neil on March 14, 2013, 12:54:35 AM
Fredg, bigger pictures, I am not sure, it took three attempts to post these, I keep getting "image is to large"

Kevin

Follow this link and download the program it will resize them the to the maximum allowed for the forum

http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=9993.msg264078#msg264078 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=9993.msg264078#msg264078)

Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Neil on March 14, 2013, 12:56:09 AM
Tony

Lovely photos, I do have some to post but I until I get back my computer, I am unable to get them upload here. 
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Anthony Darby on March 14, 2013, 06:02:35 AM
In reply.
Maggi, I am not sure which species it is, i think its a poorly Mirror orchid.
Fredg, bigger pictures, I am not sure, it took three attempts to post these, I keep getting "image is to large"
Individual pics can be up to 200k.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on March 16, 2013, 06:07:32 PM
Just noticed the first casualty in my green house. The leaf bases of my ?Dactylorhiza romana have rotted and came away very easily. I'm blaming the warm weather we had for three weeks and the sudden cold snap. Its been OK all winter and just about to flower

What know? Knock it out for a look?

This is how it looked last week. To my eye it doesn't look like a Dactylorhiza

Just noticed the water in the tip. Maybe its been dripped on and a didn't notice. There are flower buds behind the purple bracts/leaves
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Alex on March 16, 2013, 06:43:44 PM
I got this as Ophrys X syracusana (lunulata X speculum), but can't find any support for this - is anyone expert enough to confirm or deny? Not me....any opinions welcome.

Alex
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Hans A. on March 16, 2013, 10:01:38 PM
Alex, First thought seeing you Ophrys was Ophrys bertolonii - but I am definitley not an expert...

Here some pictures I took the last days.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on March 17, 2013, 09:43:52 PM
Hans are these in your garden?
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Hans A. on March 17, 2013, 11:11:08 PM
The picture of Ophrys sphegodes is taken in the garden (not native on Mallorca), the other pictures were taken in nature.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Tony Willis on March 18, 2013, 06:05:07 PM
Alex as one who sits in the camp that thinks there are only  half a dozen species with lots of variations on a theme then I cannot comment other than it is lovely.

Hans

very nice,good to see in the wild.

Orchis mascula

Orchis morio a white form

Modification of my original post where I had wrongly named them.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on March 18, 2013, 06:36:11 PM
That white one is very nice
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: angie on March 18, 2013, 06:38:11 PM
I agree the white one is so lovely.

Angie  :)
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: K Andrzejewski on March 18, 2013, 07:37:57 PM
Two Orchis morio in flower
- I have already asked on saturday for exchange possibility (topic:Terrestrial Orchids  ). In this case - orchid on picture No 2. Because I'll be not available until Easter - gonna be honest:  this is not Anacamptis (Orchis) morio. If the new tuber will be ready and big enough for a next season, I would like to buy from You still living remains of this plant (with old tuber, leaves and roots). What you think?
Regards
Kristof
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Tony Willis on March 18, 2013, 07:53:03 PM
I had not seen your post on Saturday and sorry no I do not want to part with my plant.

You are quite correct I had wrongly named them and have changed my posting. Thank you.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: K Andrzejewski on March 18, 2013, 08:09:17 PM
Subspecies of morio? They are quite easy to identify. But in your case - this is Orchis, not Anacamptis :)
Kristof
P.S.Your Ophrys fusca subsp.atlantica is not atlantica too, but which one - lupercalis or fusca, I have no idea, I know not many about Ophrys.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Neil on March 25, 2013, 09:02:44 PM
 Anacamptis morio subsp. longicorn
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Anthony Darby on March 26, 2013, 08:34:04 AM
I'm seeing some lovely wee orchids on this thread.  8)
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Cephalotus on March 31, 2013, 09:34:17 PM
For my return for Easter I was surprised by one of my orchids. My Calypso bulbosa decided to flower. It is a little too early for this species, but it is due to fact that it was kept the whole winter indoor. My friends two plants are kept outdoor and they are doing fine, but I need at least one plant to be in controlled conditions, secured.

Wile pollinating, I accidentally damaged the flower, so it does not look attractive any more. I need to get seeds to propagate it in larder number. Lets hope that this year I will succeed.

I dedicate those photos to Maggi.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Maggi Young on March 31, 2013, 11:00:50 PM
Thank you Chris,  it is lovely to see these exquisite little flowers.  :)  I wish you great success in growing them for many years.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: K Andrzejewski on April 08, 2013, 08:23:03 AM
Two Orchis mascula in flower. Modification of my original post where I had wrongly named them.
- I still disagree, first plant belong without any doubt to Anacamptis morio group, because of this photo there is no chance to give 100% correct name but in my opinion this is something from south-east of Europe or Asia Minor: subsp.caucasica or even syriaca. In Anacamptis morio subsp.caucasica lateral parts of lip are moved backwards. I modified your two pictures from last year - I hope that is now visible. According to the last year, it is a few weeks gap between this plant and subsp. morio in flowering-time (you added photo of caucasica on 05 March 2012 and morio on 31 March 2012 – with a top flower still in bud).

Plant No2 belongs definitely to Orchis mascula group, but this is Orchis olbiensis (or Orchis ichnusae) and you can’t call them “Orchis mascula alba” :
http://www.apatita.com/herbario/Orchidaceae/Orchis_olbiensis.html (http://www.apatita.com/herbario/Orchidaceae/Orchis_olbiensis.html)
Regards –
Kristof
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Tony Willis on April 08, 2013, 03:32:01 PM
Some more in flower at the moment

Ophrys lutea

Orchis anatolica an elegant thing

Ophrys fusca two different plants

Orchis mascula another white form with more pink spots than the last one I showed (I do not recollect ever calling this 'alba')
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: K Andrzejewski on April 08, 2013, 04:02:01 PM
Orchis mascula another white form with more pink spots than the last one I showed (I do not recollect ever calling this 'alba')
- this is free country and for me, you can call this plants Orchis mascula 'white' -not alba', your choice - but this still change nothing, that your Orchids are Orchis olbiensis.
P.S.You can find around Malaga not only olbiensis but also mascula...
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: ashley on April 08, 2013, 07:42:53 PM
Some more in flower at the moment ...

All very beautiful Tony; hard to pick a favourite.
I'm struggling not to succumb ;)
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: SteveC2 on April 10, 2013, 11:28:36 AM
Spring must almost be springing as my little gems are finally starting to get going.
Firstly Ophrys ferum equinum.  This demonstrates the problem of taking photographs in a multicat family.  Set up camera on tripod.  Position background behind plant.  Curious cat jumps on table.  Background topples forward.  Plant is beheaded!  Never mind it won't hurt the tuber.
Second Anacamptis morio ssp picta.  A real cutie in my humble opinion.
And third a real showstopper even if the picture doesn't do it justice. The purple is so intense, almost day-glo.  I bought it as Orchidactylis Chennervardii, which is I believe a cross between Orchis pallens, normally yellow, and a red Dactylorhiza sambucina.  Now I can almost hear the name police hammering at their keyboards as I speak, so can we just agree it's a nice plant and save everyone's time and tempers. ;D ;D ;D
 
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: SteveC2 on April 10, 2013, 11:29:37 AM
And two more:
Next up Ophrys helenae, a lovely red, which is only let down by its tendency to fade to pale brown after a few days.
Then finally one that's been going for weeks, Gennaria diphylla.  Perhaps I should have started an "Its Green 2013" thred with this, as boy is it green.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Tony Willis on April 10, 2013, 02:48:43 PM
Very nice Steve and I for one will not argue with your names.

I am no luddite and quite open to change so out of interest can somebody tell me what authority is used for example for the change of Orchis morio to Anacamptis,Barlia to Himantoglossum, The upgrading of Orchis mascula ssp olbiensis to O. olbiensis
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Neil on April 10, 2013, 08:36:47 PM
Tony the best place for checking names http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-142869 (http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-142869)
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Anthony Darby on April 11, 2013, 10:46:50 AM
More wonderful little gems, as you say Steve. 8)
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Hans A. on April 14, 2013, 10:45:01 PM
Epipactis veratrifolia started to bloom. :)
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: SteveC2 on April 17, 2013, 11:04:48 AM
I'm used to my plants being a little behind other posters on here, living here in frozen Lincolnshire, but this is too much.  ;D ;D ;D  My veratrifolia isn't even up yet, but I suppose I should be grateful that it extends the season.

What is up, though driving me mad, is Thelymitra macrophylla.  First two flowers opened for about an hour on Monday, at the peak temperature, then started to close as soon as I grabbd my camera.  Yesterday wasn't warm enough to provoke any movement, and today looks like being worse.  Hopefully the rest of the week might tempt numbers three and four to open.  I have a show at the weeked, (Quick plug for Fenland Orchid Society at Terrington St Clements near King's Lynn on Sunday) and don't suppose the conditions will let me show it at its best.
Thanks to Andrew at Orchid Alchemy for supplying the plant. 
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Maggi Young on April 17, 2013, 11:36:38 AM
Enjoying your photos even if you are frustrated with progress.

Good luck with the show, Steve.
 Here's the link for the FOS :
http://www.fenland-os.org.uk/index_files/Page358.htm (http://www.fenland-os.org.uk/index_files/Page358.htm)
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Tony Willis on April 19, 2013, 04:02:11 PM
Steve that thelymitra is very nice.I had one from darren last spring and although it grew well I never got enough sun to get it to open. It sat there for a while and then withered. The plant though is fine.

here are some that do not need the sun to open.

Ophrys lutea I am showing this to contrast it with the one below

Ophrys lutea with very large flowers nearly three times the normal

Aceras anthropophorum

Ophrys speculum




Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on April 19, 2013, 07:04:08 PM
Very nice Tony .
Here some of my flowering species ......

Ophrys kotschyi  (syn. O. cretica )
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on April 19, 2013, 07:10:25 PM
Ophrys lutea I am showing this to contrast it with the one below

It can be very different .........One of mine ......
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on April 19, 2013, 07:15:09 PM
Ophrys umbilicata ssp. bucephala .
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on April 19, 2013, 07:18:06 PM
Ophrys tenthredinifera.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on April 19, 2013, 07:20:07 PM
Ophrys sphegodes ssp. spruneri
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on April 19, 2013, 07:22:24 PM
Anacamptis papilionacea
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on April 19, 2013, 07:25:59 PM
Ophrys fusca ssp. iricolor
Ophrys speculum
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on April 19, 2013, 09:17:09 PM
My plunge is too warm, 19.5C, so can I move all my orchids outside. A few have died which may be due to fluctuating temperatures. I'm sure Anacamptis morio and Orchis mascula will come to no harm if I move them out. I can go buy some green house shading.

Tomorrow I'll make a list of what I have in the plunges but its mostly Orchis and a few Dactylorhiza. The latter are in there so I can keep an eye on them.

I'm disappointed the size of the man orchid. I thought it would have been larger.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Anthony Darby on April 20, 2013, 10:07:35 AM
I'm still curious why you would want to grow these inside Mark. I just grew them in the garden and they did fine with no help from me. Greenhouse was for Mediterranean species.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on April 20, 2013, 10:23:52 AM
When I got them I had no where to put them. They are going in to troughs when they go dormant
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: SteveC2 on April 20, 2013, 03:11:41 PM
As I type the sun is shining, the flowers are blooming and my greenhouse is like a house of ill repute.  (How do you put that delicately?)  There are bees everywhere moving from one Ophrys to another, heads covered in pollinia.  Now I have always wondered just how true the claims of each Ophrys having its own pollinator are, after all I'm not sure just how much real research has been done as opposed to anecdotal observation, and what I'm seeing here makes me doubt the so called facts even more.  Watching carefully it seems that the different bees are picking up pollinia from several different flowers, but it is more difficult to see where they are depositing them, if at all.  I had hoped to hand pollinate and harvest the seed but they are beating me to it.  Still I suppose that it could produce some interesting hybrids.
The photo is of a bee at an Ophrys sphegodes, (named by a lumper not splitter!), pollinia on its head clearly visible.  The same bee has, to put it bluntly, copulated with O. speculum and O. lutea and if I'm not mistaken has left one of the pollinia at the lutea.  Could yellow spider orchids be in the pipeline?
Anyway I'll leave you now and go watch some more sex. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Tony Willis on April 20, 2013, 05:51:02 PM
Steve

smashing picture. Only an odd bumble bee here but some butterflies so mine are safe. All that indiscriminate  mating sounds like Chorley on a Saturday night.

Chris looks like we grow and enjoy much the same things. Saw lots of the O. cretica a couple of weeks ago in Crete. One area had dozens in flower.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on April 20, 2013, 07:34:20 PM
Chris looks like we grow and enjoy much the same things. Saw lots of the O. cretica a couple of weeks ago in Crete. One area had dozens in flower.

 ;D ,  Yes  Tony we have the same interest.   8) Good to hear that O. cretica was stil there ! It is one of my favorites.
Crete is such a nice place ....We have been  there 7 times and I stil want to go there ....
Did you go also to the eastern part ?   
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Tony Willis on April 20, 2013, 08:13:57 PM
Kris

three days in the West visiting the Omalos Plain and then near Spili for the orchids

Then three days in the East which was very dry but in the Kalamafka Gorge there were hundreds of orchids  and in cultivated ground about 1km up masses of O cretica. It was our fourth visit.

Ophrys cretica Kalamafka Gorge
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on April 20, 2013, 09:01:57 PM
Kris
three days in the West visiting the Omalos Plain and then near Spili for the orchids
Then three days in the East which was very dry but in the Kalamafka Gorge there were hundreds of orchids  and in cultivated ground about 1km up masses of O cretica. It was our fourth visit.
Ophrys cretica Kalamafka Gorge

Thanks Tony ! Never been in that gorge , so maybe another reason to go back  :D 8)
Did you notice some difference between the western and eastern cretica ?
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Tony Willis on April 20, 2013, 11:27:23 PM
Kris

never found any in the West this time. The small area I remember seeing them before near Spili was now growing wheat.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on April 21, 2013, 05:47:49 PM
These are what I have in terracotta pots on the sand plunge. Can any of these be grown outside? Most have spikes just starting to grow

Ochis laxiflora
Ophrys ferum
Orchis purpurea
Anacamptis pailionacea
Anacamptis x alata
Dactylorhiza cordigera
Ophrys scolopax ssp cornuta
Dactylorhiza sambucina
Orchis anthropophora
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Anthony Darby on April 22, 2013, 03:46:00 AM
I would only be tempted to grow Orchis purpurea, from that list, outside.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Darren on April 22, 2013, 12:50:10 PM
Orchis laxiflora grows outside successfully at Wakehurst Place (it was used a a trial species for introduction projects). It is the one on your list I'd try. I suspect it would dislike being too hot and dry under glass - I have always found it in dampish habitats in the wild.

Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Tony Willis on April 22, 2013, 02:50:03 PM
The first of my Calypso bulbosa have opened a full month later from last year.

The second one appears to have two leaves but this is not the case,the plant produced two new bulbs last year and these are separate plants.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Neil on April 22, 2013, 06:47:21 PM
Tony Very nice

Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Graham Catlow on April 22, 2013, 06:49:13 PM
The first of my Calypso bulbosa have opened a full month later from last year.

The second one appears to have two leaves but this is not the case,the plant produced two new bulbs last year and these are separate plants.

Hi Tony.
Have you experienced the scent yet!
I wish I had grown mine like you. I liked it growing in moss but didn't keep my eye on it and the moss over-ran it and it rotted in last summers wet.

 
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Tony Willis on April 22, 2013, 07:46:08 PM
Graham

I have now experienced (just about,I have virtually no sense of smell)the scent. I had not realised they have one.

Mine live permanently plunged in sand under the greenhouse bench so are kept just damp in summer. The grit is just to stop the compost caking when I water.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on April 23, 2013, 04:50:05 PM
I meant to say a couple of weeks back that I'm disappointed with the scent of my Barlia. I have to hold it to my nose to get any smell

Two of my Orchis papilionacea have gone dormant so I knocked them out of their pot to have look. I was amazed to see such small but healthy roots.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Neil on April 23, 2013, 10:45:01 PM
Mark

The Barlia needs quite warm temperatures to release its scent, above 18C and the scent fills the greenhouse I found
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on April 26, 2013, 11:29:40 AM
Orchis mascula. Does the one in the shape of a human fall within the range of flowers for this orchid.

 Something interesting is the spotty leaved plants are flowering before the plain leaved plants
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Neil on April 27, 2013, 12:26:13 PM
Now that we have some sun  ;D I have some flowers  :)

Orchis italica
Serapias vomeracea with an unknown allium in it will need some help with identifying it later
Anacamptis morio  a nice bi colour form
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on April 27, 2013, 12:38:19 PM
Very nice A. morio

My "flowering sized" O. italica from Amand turned out a tiny plant
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: K Andrzejewski on April 27, 2013, 01:25:43 PM
Very nice A. morio
- I adore all orchids from morio group (or section Moriones is somebody prefer german version) since years, amazing display of forms, colours and mix of colours.
My "flowering sized" O. italica from Amand turned out a tiny plant
- you mean, Jacques from Stanmore?
My always-flowering italica is over (without any sign of flowers), and I don't know why - but I think maybe I will finally have something interesting this year from other plant, we will see. Neil - I like deep colour of your plant.

P.S. I checked my Orchis mascula and looks like plants with spots on leaves will flower as a first too, who know - maybe there is something in this??
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on April 27, 2013, 03:10:03 PM
Yes Jacque/John Amand
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: K Andrzejewski on April 27, 2013, 03:30:40 PM
Yes Jacque/John Amand
- I'm surprised he still got hardy orchids, I thought he keep now only some Dactylorhiza for show display. My first orchids ever I bought from this nursery in 2005 (Dactylorhiza maialis and Anacamptis morio), both had never bloomed but because I still remember how I planted them and what I did later, this not surprise me at all :)
You bought plants from his web page or via phone?
Kristof
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on April 27, 2013, 03:32:42 PM
I bought it from Harrogate Show where he had a stand
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on April 27, 2013, 05:18:53 PM
When I went out for a walk this afternoon the lip of O. ferrum-equinum was just showing. Two hours later and the flower is open
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on April 27, 2013, 05:20:37 PM
I made a mistake. I bought Orchis militaris from Amand
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: K Andrzejewski on April 27, 2013, 06:41:02 PM
I made a mistake. I bought Orchis militaris from Amand
- I never saw any mediterranean species in this nursery, his supplier is from Holland or Denmark, I'm not sure - but definitely one of this two countries.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: fredg on April 28, 2013, 01:39:37 PM
This Anacamptis morio has been opened for a little while under one of the stagings. Somewhat later than Tony's in February.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on April 28, 2013, 02:24:22 PM
My A. morio have only opened in the last few days

At what stage can I lift plants so I can remove next years tuber? My guess is before now?

A. morio
O. mascula - nice bracts
O. mascula - plain leaf with pale flowers
O. militaris
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Neil on April 28, 2013, 02:25:52 PM
Just a quick one does anyone have a pure white anacamptis  morio that is open at present and could supply me with some pollen?  I wish to cross pollinate the bi color morio that have shown on the previous page. 

Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Neil on April 28, 2013, 02:27:12 PM
Mark you can give it a go and see if it will produce a new tuber but as you say you have left it a bit late, if you can keep the plant green as long as possible then you will have a better chance of producing a new tuber
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Tony Willis on April 28, 2013, 06:14:03 PM
This Anacamptis morio has been opened for a little while under one of the stagings. Somewhat later than Tony's in February.

Very nice Fred,mine from February is still in flower and I have another one which has only been open a few days. They seem very variable this year.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: K Andrzejewski on April 28, 2013, 11:21:00 PM
- O. militaris
- looks like Anacamptis pyramidalis, I'll be really surprised if this will be Orchis  (in this nursery mistakes with orchids labels are quite common)
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Anthony Darby on April 28, 2013, 11:40:57 PM
The leaves are certainly very narrow.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: K Andrzejewski on April 29, 2013, 08:35:10 AM
At what stage can I lift plants so I can remove next years tuber? My guess is before now?
Mark, this all depend from a couple of factors. I have to say something before everything else - all my experience are for clay/loam soil and I don't know how it's work if you use super-drainage mix. I had a few pictures I did step by step with Orchis mascula, Anacamptis morio and I think pyramidalis, but unfortunatelly this forum does not exist anymore. I don't remember now, probably O.mascula I held in the mix on the basis of gravel, but because I'm not sure so I don't want to provide wrong information.

First thing you need to know is what you gonna do with new tuber, some people are using fridge, I'm packing in loam in small terracotta pot and this is plunged into the soil in shady places of the garden.

First technic is to cut down flower spike just when the last single flower will open. In mostly cases of Anacamptis, this is enough to produce extra tuber (they quite often produce extra tuber without any help). If you gonna cut the new tuber - you need to control the condition of the mother-plant, so if start to fade or is yellow, you can win only very small extra tuber or completely nothing. Usually I cut the new tuber when flowers start to fade. Whole plant with all roots and old tuber I plant back but allways in the shade position to encourage a bit longer grow than usually (and of course I'm still watering a bit).
Kristof

P.S. But you take a full responsibility - if something goes wrong (for example this extra tuber will dry out), please don't blame me.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Tony Willis on May 01, 2013, 08:47:00 AM
A lost label plant which I shall be grateful if somebody can put a name to.

It has heavily spotted leaves,difficult to see as they are shrivelling as the plant comes into flower.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: K Andrzejewski on May 01, 2013, 09:27:22 PM
A lost label plant ...
-can I ask where do you "buy" your plants??
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Tony Willis on May 01, 2013, 11:24:09 PM
-can I ask where do you "buy" your plants??

Some of my plants I have had for nearly twenty years and although I bought a few many years ago when I was starting I have obtained recent ones by swapping with fellow enthusiasts. Each year I propagate a few(taking of the tuber early method)so as to have spares to swap.

Any ideas on the lost label plant ? I thought laxiflora but that is not supposed to have spotted leaves.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: K Andrzejewski on May 02, 2013, 07:33:25 AM
Some of my plants I have had for nearly twenty years
- that's interesting, yeasturday morning I saw a bit other version of your question, so I tough - I will ask the seller. Other story is - I am very interested in exactly this group of Orchids which you show in your photos. Since about ten years I never ever saw them for sell in any nursery or from individual collections.
Kristof
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on May 03, 2013, 12:18:49 AM
Kristof I will cut off flowers when there are maybe 3 or 4 left at the top. Anacamptis will be difficult because their leaves are turning yellow already. N Ireland is too warm just now. Today was 18C.

My Anacamptis x alata have spikes coming.

Some O. mascula. Its great to have variation in flower shape and colour. Unfortunately my Canon camera does not like the colour of this orchid. When I get home I will try my Nikon camera
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on May 06, 2013, 07:06:41 PM
So exciting now to see all orchids coming in to flower. One has died - Dactylorhiza romana.

My Dactylorhiza sambucina red form is yellow! I must email the seller

Do you guys with plunged grow same species orchids singly  or in groups? I see three different Orchis mascula in my pots. Small flowered ladies dress shaped flowers, pale pink and large many flowered forms the colour of Cadbury purple. Will these be the same next year?

Sadly my Nikon does not like the colour of O. mascula. No photos show the true colour
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on May 07, 2013, 11:55:03 AM
I think my Anacamptis x alata is A. morio

Can someone post a photo of A. x alata
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on May 08, 2013, 10:18:42 AM
I have an invasion of aphids which have been sprayed with soapy water.

A. x alata very like A. morio. So difficult to photograph. I'll take more when all the flowers are open
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: K Andrzejewski on May 08, 2013, 10:45:15 AM
Mark - there is no sign of laxiflora in this plant, usually lateral sepals are "mascula-like" and here are pure "green winged" only.
... does anyone have a pure white anacamptis  morio that is open at present and could supply me with some pollen?
- First single lowest flower of my Anacamptis morio subsp.morio are opened since yesterday. If you still want, tomorrow or in next 2-3 days I'll be able to send you one single flower with pollinia.
Kristof
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Neil on May 08, 2013, 12:39:10 PM
Kristoff

Thank you for the  for the offer, however I will decline this as I have now selfed it. 
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Ru on May 11, 2013, 12:07:57 AM
Crimea, oak wood.
Cephalanthera  longifolia.
Orchis purpurea.
Cephalanthera longifolia
O. purpurea X simia ?
Orchis tridentata.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Ru on May 11, 2013, 12:12:21 AM
Orchis picta.
Platanthera chlorantha.
Cephalanthera damasonium.
Orchis purpurea.
Orchis purpurea.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: K Andrzejewski on May 11, 2013, 07:15:40 AM
O. purpurea X simia ?
- the shape of the flowers like Orchis x hybrida, but this is not the first time when I see pictures of Crimean Orchis with this yellowish glow inside helmet. You did this photograph in the evening sun?? Here another example:
Orchis purpruea and Orchis x angustricriuris :
http://www.flora.crimea.ua/Orchidaceae/Orchis-x-angusticruris-Franch.jpg
Kristof
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Peter Maguire on May 11, 2013, 07:39:58 AM
I would guess from the dark background and strong shadows within the inflorescence that flash has been used.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Ru on May 11, 2013, 07:50:06 AM
I would guess from the dark background and strong shadows within the inflorescence that flash has been used.
Peter is perfect the rights.
Here more correct photo of this plant.
Under a helmet and on a throat really there is a green luminescence.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: K Andrzejewski on May 11, 2013, 08:59:30 AM
Orchis simia blooms from top to the bottom, Orchis purpurea and militaris other way, according to Kretzschmar at all. 2007 such hybrids open flowers in the same time. Here we can see that this is purpurea/militaris style but... I still don't know.
Kristof
P.S.Ruslan - your picta is from the oak forrest too, or from the meadow/pastures?
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: SteveC2 on May 11, 2013, 09:51:29 AM
Once again the greenhouse takes on its annual smell of goat.  Yes the Lizard is back ;D
Aka Himantoglossum hircinum, its odour is quite overpowering.  Now the first fragrant Gymnadenia are about ready to open so tomorrow morning promises quite a cocktail.  Perhaps I should market it?  Anyone for eau de fragrant lizard?
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Ru on May 11, 2013, 09:54:20 AM
Orchis picta and Orchis tridentata is unconditional from a wood edge.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Anthony Darby on May 12, 2013, 11:24:46 AM
I had enough essence of goat from the lizard orchids in the horse paddock next to our gîte on holiday in Provence in 2005.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on May 14, 2013, 11:58:14 PM
Green-winged or hybrid? Either way I really like these two. They are very pale with open or raised 'wings'

x alata again. It's changing
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: K Andrzejewski on May 15, 2013, 08:04:37 AM
Green-winged or hybrid?
Mark - one moment please, first two pictures are in your opinion green-winged and pictures 3 and 4 are x alata?? I ask because looks like exactly other way, maybe you accidentally mistake the labels?
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on May 15, 2013, 11:41:05 AM
No 2x Green-winged first and x alata 3rd
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on May 15, 2013, 11:45:39 AM
After work I will look
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: K Andrzejewski on May 15, 2013, 12:38:01 PM
very windy today, so no chance for properly photos;
1 and 2: Anacamptis laxiflora ; origin - France, I bought a few years ago as a young plant from R.Manuel on HOS Meeting
3: Anacamptis morio subsp.morio var. alba ; origin - probably Bavaria (Bayern), from H.Beyrle - Germany
Your hybrid Anacamptis x alata must have a visible marks from both parents.
Kristof
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Tony Willis on May 15, 2013, 03:28:48 PM
very nice morio var alba.

In flower today

Ophrys fuciflora and Calanth tricarinata with wasp. Second picture has pollinia stuck to it head
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on May 15, 2013, 04:29:08 PM
A. x alata and A. morio came from two different seller so it is unlikely that I mixed up the labels. Nobody goes in the green house other than me.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: SteveC2 on May 16, 2013, 09:14:58 AM
To help with the paternity / maternity issue over Anacamptis x alata? here are the possible suspects.  At the front A. morio ssp picta, front left A. morio ssp morio, front right A. laxiflora and back A. laxiflora elegans.  The laxflora are altogether bigger plants and given the natural variability of morio flowers I think it might be useful to look at the leaves / plant structure as well as surely a hybrid would have inherited some of the laxiflora characteristics.  Mark tells me that the leaves on his possible alata are rosette like, very like morio, probably because it is a morio!
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on May 16, 2013, 09:54:19 AM
Mark tells me that the leaves on his possible alata are rosette like, very like morio, probably because it is a morio!

I'll go take photos now
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on May 16, 2013, 11:00:58 AM
A. x alata leaves
A. morio leaves - dying back fast
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: SteveC2 on May 16, 2013, 12:05:58 PM
Looks to me like either the morio genes are totally overwhelming the laxiflora genes or, more likely, there are no laxiflora genes.  It's a morio!
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: fredg on May 16, 2013, 05:52:17 PM
Finally getting around to posting this one, it's been in flower for a couple of weeks now. A lighter form than the norm.

Orchis mascula

Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Tony Willis on May 18, 2013, 11:30:24 AM
Dactylorhiza sambucina yellow form
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on May 18, 2013, 12:38:38 PM
Can I water orchids in pots, in plunges, at this time of year. With very hot days like yesterday, just under 20C, the sand dries very quickly
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on May 19, 2013, 12:04:53 PM
There is a lovely Anacamptis morio on Ebay. Pale pink with green wings. I contacted the seller to ask if he is guaranteeing this plant in the photo. He says

"Sorry, I can`t promise it is the one you`ll get as there are so many..."
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: K Andrzejewski on May 19, 2013, 12:57:47 PM
There is a lovely Anacamptis morio on Ebay. Pale pink with green wings. I contacted the seller to ask if he is guaranteeing this plant in the photo. He says

"Sorry, I can`t promise it is the one you`ll get as there are so many..."
This is Heinz Pinkepank auction , I asked him the same question last year.
Kristof
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: fredg on May 19, 2013, 01:11:56 PM
Again this has been in flower for a couple of weeks. I wasn't going to, bother with a photo this year but hey! it's sunny :D
I'll go for effect and post an external image :D

Neotinea tridentata Orchis tridentata

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8128/8752879607_3cea852620_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on May 19, 2013, 04:52:58 PM
Fabulous Fred. Sadly mine died just as the spike was starting to grow
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on May 19, 2013, 08:38:32 PM
This afternoon I knocked some of my orchids out of their pots to see how damp or dry they were. I was shocked to find them very dry. All got watered thoroughly. Before replanting I removed next years tubers.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on May 20, 2013, 09:34:37 AM
It was also very interesting to see that the new tubers are much larger than any I bought. Will these shrink a bit?
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: SteveC2 on May 20, 2013, 10:03:12 AM
They should not shrink much if at all.  I am finding that this long cool spring has allowed many of my wintergreens to grow on for longer producing larger and in some cases more tubers than normal.  On the down side it's been a below average season for flowers, due I assume to lack of light, particularly in the autumn.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: K Andrzejewski on May 20, 2013, 10:19:45 AM
They should not shrink much if at all.
- of course that tubers shrink (sometimes 15-25%) - this is natural process of loosing water in the summer time.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Tony Willis on May 20, 2013, 11:22:46 AM
- of course that tubers shrink (sometimes 15-25%) - this is natural process of loosing water in the summer time.

i will weigh some of mine when they die down and then again before I water them in September and let you know the results. On the other hand I may just get a life!
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on May 20, 2013, 12:52:39 PM
Some of mine had one large tuber and a little one. Mine are suffering from drying winds and some days high temperatures thankfully only two have died. Dactylorhizas romana and N. tridentata - can't think of the correct spelling
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: fredg on May 20, 2013, 01:06:27 PM
i will weigh some of mine when they die down and then again before I water them in September and let you know the results. On the other hand I may just get a life!

It's knowledge, the pursuit of it is life :D
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Maggi Young on May 20, 2013, 01:42:45 PM
It's knowledge, the pursuit of it is life :D

I agree, Fred - I cannot be the only who would not expect tubers to shrink if well tended in cultivation so I would be interested to see what the experience of Tony is in this matter.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on May 20, 2013, 02:34:26 PM
Maybe, if I remember, weigh mine also.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: K Andrzejewski on May 20, 2013, 03:27:17 PM
A few pictures of Anacamptis morio tubers I bought last year from Slovenia. The seller sent photos before I decided that I will take two of them.The quality is maybe not the best I have seen, but still "the shrink-effect" is visible. One thing I repeat always and everywhere: European orchids are dependent from many factors, but the main one in my opinion is climate. All what we are doing in ours greenhouses or gardens, this is only very small "experiment" and we mostly focus on "how to have more" but not "how to understand" their nature...
Regards -
Kristof
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: SteveC2 on May 20, 2013, 04:28:09 PM
Fine, they may shrink in nature, ( I wouldn't know as I've never dug any up!) or if allowed to completely dry out over the warm European summer months but frankly those are the unhealthiest looking tubers I have ever seen.  Mine do not like that when I repot them just before they start growth and I would be unhappy if any that I purchased arrived looking so desiccated.  At the end of dormancy most of my ophrys, orchis are still completely unwrinkled, with a healthy creamy white colour.
By the way, in my greenhouse / garden I am not conducting some great scientific experiment I am trying to grow plants which I like, to the best of my limited human ability.  Yesterday at the Sheffield Orchid Society show I put on a display of my plants which generated a lot of interest in hardies in a world dominated by tropicals, of which there were some fantastic plants on display.  I had to leave some of my bigger cyps and bowls of pleiones at home as they were too big for the car, and I could not get another plant in, but this does not matter as I am not interested in competing, I just want to encourage other people to have a go at growing these fascinating plants.
p.s. the hostas were borrowed and put on the end to act as buffers as there were doors either side.  Apologies to hosta lovers for using your favourite plants as door stops.
p.s. x2 If one or two plants look a little bent at the top it was because it was so dark and they were searching for the light, not that they were too tall for the car, though with the Anacamptis laxiflora it was a close run thing..  Now happily returned to the greenhouse they've straightened up!
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Maggi Young on May 20, 2013, 04:33:58 PM
A few pictures of Anacamptis morio tubers I bought last year from Slovenia. The seller sent photos before I decided that I will take two of them.The quality is maybe not the best I have seen, but still "the shrink-effect" is visible. One thing I repeat always and everywhere: European orchids are dependent from many factors, but the main one in my opinion is climate. All what we are doing in ours greenhouses or gardens, this is only very small "experiment" and we mostly focus on "how to have more" but not "how to understand" their nature...
Regards -
Kristof

Excuse me, Kristof, but there are those of us who work very hard to study the needs of our plants to keep them growing as healthy as possible.
To my eyes  those tubers looks so shrunken as to have been kept too dry for too long.  If that appears otherwise to you then you must accept that there are great differences in how different people perceive things- and this does not necessarily mean they are wrong.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Maggi Young on May 20, 2013, 04:36:20 PM
Fine, they may shrink in nature, ( I wouldn't know as I've never dug any up!) or if allowed to completely dry out over the warm European summer months but frankly those are the unhealthiest looking tubers I have ever seen.  Mine do not like that when I repot them just before they start growth and I would be unhappy if any that I purchased arrived looking so desiccated.  At the end of dormancy most of my ophrys, orchis are still completely unwrinkled, with a healthy creamy white colour.
By the way, in my greenhouse / garden I am not conducting some great scientific experiment I am trying to grow plants which I like, to the best of my limited human ability.  Yesterday at the Sheffield Orchid Society show I put on a display of my plants which generated a lot of interest in hardies in a world dominated by tropicals, of which there were some fantastic plants on display.  I had to leave some of my bigger cyps and bowls of pleiones at home as they were too big for the car, and I could not get another plant in, but this does not matter as I am not interested in competing, I just want to encourage other people to have a go at growing these fascinating plants.
p.s. the hostas were borrowed and put on the end to act as buffers as there were doors either side.  Apologies to hosta lovers for using your favourite plants as door stops.
p.s. x2 If one or two plants look a little bent at the top it was because it was so dark and they were searching for the light, not that they were too tall for the car, though with the Anacamptis laxiflora it was a close run thing..  Now happily returned to the greenhouse they've straightened up!
Nice display, Steve - sounds like you need to make friends with a bus owner - lots of room in one of those!
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: SteveC2 on May 20, 2013, 04:48:07 PM
Aye, and a double decker at that!
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Tony Willis on May 20, 2013, 05:18:10 PM
Steve

what a smashing display,I wish I could do that.

As to your comments on growing I could not agree more,it is a hobby and I grow the plants to enjoy them and share that enjoyment with other enthusiasts.

 I also agree that when it comes to the time to start my tubers off they are plump and white not like those shrivelled ones shown by Kristof. What I would say however is that when the new growth starts the plant slowly absorbs the tuber before its roots get going and at that stage they are shrivelling like the ones he shows. I know this because I tip them out continually to see how they are progressing.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: SteveC2 on May 20, 2013, 05:27:21 PM
Interesting Tony,
I'd be too scared of damaging something to do that.  My wife is always telling me off for "Time Teaming" in my pots, looking for new shoots, let alone tipping them out.  I wasn't sure just how quickly the original tuber shrunk as sometimes even when the plant goes dormant the following year it's not always obvious which is the old and which is the new without examining to see where the old shoot comes from.
As for the display I have watched your posts with envy over the years and bet you could produce a humdinger if you put your mind to it!
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: K Andrzejewski on May 20, 2013, 08:13:50 PM
Excuse me, Kristof, but there are those of us who work very hard to study the needs of our plants to keep them growing as healthy as possible.
Maggi, in many cases that is only beautiful theory - so many growers are thinking only about pure "exploatation", that sometimes I think - farmer have more understanding for his crop fields and he know, that every few years he need to take break to avoid soil sterilisation.
We can grow hardy orchids in the garden, in greenhouse plunged in super-drainage or German style in Seramis/Neudohum mix - and everybody (who is of course successful), know exactly "how it is with Orchids"...
Try to compare:
- hydroponic tomatoes for Tesco
- tomatoes from alottments in grandma style
- natural tomatoes as a perennials from South America
We still talk about the same plants - I'm right?
When after few seasons I got the feeling "now I know something", always something going on and I have back more questions than answers - and that's the most amazing thing about this plants...
Regards -
Kristof
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Tony Willis on May 21, 2013, 04:01:54 PM
First Cephalanthera longifolia in flower. i had hoped it would start to clump up but no sign this year.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Anthony Darby on May 22, 2013, 05:34:15 AM
Lovely plant.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Corrado & Rina on May 22, 2013, 06:54:52 AM
What a beautiful plant Tony!!!! Where did you get them from?

PS: Do Cephalantera really clump like other hardy terrestrial orchids? I was under the impression that they did not ....
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Tony Willis on May 22, 2013, 01:31:03 PM
What a beautiful plant Tony!!!! Where did you get them from?

PS: Do Cephalantera really clump like other hardy terrestrial orchids? I was under the impression that they did not ....

I inherited most of my collection of orchids many years ago from a friend who has died and since then have propagated various ones and swapped them ( only the tuberous ones) for others.

As to cephalanthera clumping on the whole yes they are single plants and were out in hundreds on Mt Olympus a couple of weeks ago  but when I was at Grazelema in Spain in 2011 this clump was in the woods below the village and is what I am hoping for. My second plant is now two stems.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on May 22, 2013, 02:22:28 PM
Can orchids be watered with a weak liquid fertilser?
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: K Andrzejewski on May 22, 2013, 02:38:10 PM
…frankly those are the unhealthiest looking tubers I have ever seen.  Mine do not like that when I repot them just before they start growth and I would be unhappy if any that I purchased arrived looking so desiccated.  At the end of dormancy most of my ophrys, orchis are still completely unwrinkled, with a healthy creamy white colour.
To my eyes  those tubers looks so shrunken as to have been kept too dry for too long.  If that appears otherwise to you then you must accept that there are great differences in how different people perceive things- and this does not necessarily mean they are wrong.

The seller informed me about tubers condition and after pictures arrived, I ordered two of them. My partner of course, she is thinking since years, that I need medical help – but in my opinion, my brain is working not too bad so I think, it was a right decision. We can’t ask the tubers what they think about colours and being happy, but on is for sure – because they started to grow without problems, so they don’t suffer at all. If someone have a different point of view – my proposition is: SSSI sides or natural reserves (for example with good number of Gymnadenia or Anacamptis) usually have few sectors with cattles, sheeps or other grazing animals. They are in separate places until orchids start to produce seeds. Between the sectors you can find the special gates where the livestock is waiting to cross the gate – “animal traffic zone” with no grass and other plants, surface is completely furrowed by hooves. Just touch the ground, just check what is this, take home a sample of a Marlboro size and use your imagination. You can also compare this with your mix in pots from greenhouse – and after that, please ask yourself if you really understand the nature of our Orchids…

In natural conditions, when the first autumn rains start to make the soil wet and clay/loam is absorbing water, the tubers are very quickly back in the “right conditions with healthy creamy white colour”. The orchids are “sending” signal to the mycorrhizal fungi – “let start the job”, and the cycle start again after the summer dormancy period.
Attachment: formerly Anacamptis pyramidalis side near Sevenoaks (Kent).
Regards -
Kristof

P.S.
Can orchids be watered with a weak liquid fertilser?
- no problem at all.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Maggi Young on May 22, 2013, 04:42:47 PM
Of course, there are lessons to learn from the natural conditions and climate where any plant grows - the difficulty arises when we want to grow them "in captivity"  - under those conditions, no matter what we may know, suspect or attempt, there is very little chance that we will be able to properly replicate those found in nature by the plant - in which case we must experiment to see how we can best adapt methods to grow the plants in our environs, to be as healthy as we can manage them.
There is little in life that is truly simple, I find, and I am certain that growing plants outside their natural situation is certainly one of the most tricky jobs! There is seldom only one way to achieve any end - for the most part there are many routes to the same destination and we must all find our own- and respect the paths taken by others struggling on the same pilgrimage!
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Corrado & Rina on May 22, 2013, 09:11:35 PM
Tony, what other Cephalanthera do you grow?

PS: Whenever you feel like getting rid of some tubers of Cephalanthera, we can offer a welcoming home ....
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on May 22, 2013, 09:20:44 PM
edit - oops the plants are laxiflora

answers on a post card to Mr Mark Smyth 43 ....

I have A. laxiflora from two different sources. I must start writing on the labels where they came from.

One is a small plant with few well spaced flowers and no bracts
The other is going to be a tall, I think, plant with large bracts hiding the flowers

This is the tall one. If it helps I can go out and measure it. Yet again my camera doesn't like the colour of the flowers. If it helps and I'm sure it will I can take photos of the plants side by side
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on May 22, 2013, 09:33:26 PM
The plants side by side. They are 16cm high
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on May 22, 2013, 09:36:19 PM
Do you think a Vapona strip or yellow sticky fly trap will control the aphids? I think the problem is caused by growing Tulips in the green house
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Corrado & Rina on May 22, 2013, 09:39:00 PM
Hi Mark ....

I may be wrong, but I think there is huge natural variability. It would be very useful to have seed collectors codes / numbers, but unfortunately they are often not there.

Best,
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Tony Willis on May 22, 2013, 09:45:15 PM
Tony, what other Cephalanthera do you grow?

PS: Whenever you feel like getting rid of some tubers of Cephalanthera, we can offer a welcoming home ....

None I am afraid and not much chance of having a spare either,I have had my three longifolia for years and still single shoots.

Mark I never feed mine but do put them in fresh compost each year.I also spray them against aphids.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: SteveC2 on May 22, 2013, 10:21:54 PM
The things we do on this forum!  I've just been outside into the pitch black to measure my three laxiforas.  One at 43 cm is just opening so there is potential for a few more cm yet.  The other "normal" laxiflora is at 56cm and I don't expect any more growth.  My laxiflora elegans is certainly living up to its name, 83 cm with a few flowers to open.  I have an old Crittal greenhouse with quite steeply sloping sides and the tip of the flower spike is scraping the roof.  Looks like it will have to move onto the centre stage (an old piece of staging squeezed into the middle) to give it a bit more head room.  So yes there is immense variation!

The problem with the sticky traps is that they catch the good critters as well.  I'm banned from using them by she who will be obeyed ever since an orange tip butterfly met its end on one.  No arguments from me, I'll stick to a paint brush and soapy water.  I have an Acer brilliantissimum next to one greenhouse and there must be 200 aphids on the underside of every leaf so I'm expecting an invasion very soon!
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Maggi Young on May 22, 2013, 10:25:19 PM
The things we do on this forum!  I've just been outside into the pitch black to measure my three laxifloras. 

 ;D ;D   I know, we must be mad - I've been out at midnight before now to see the temperature.... quite crazy!  But it's all useful information! :)
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on May 22, 2013, 10:26:17 PM
Now that is tall. Maybe mine are in pots that are too small? Mine get full light every day
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on May 22, 2013, 10:27:00 PM
Maggi that's why my thermometer is stuck to the glass
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: SteveC2 on May 22, 2013, 10:33:21 PM
Mine are in 4" terracotas which are plenty big enough given the tiny root system that these develop.  They get as much light as the Lincolnshire sky will allow which this year has been precious little.  I saw laxiflora flowering on the Alcudia marshes on Majorca last year and they were right next to the ditch system in an area that must have been very damp.  I knew that they liked it damp so I have grown them in a tray with a little standing water throughout the winter (way below the actual plant) and they have loved it, growing bigger and flowering better than ever.  I even keep them relatively damp in dormancy.  It seems to be working for me.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: K Andrzejewski on May 22, 2013, 11:25:43 PM
I saw laxiflora flowering on the Alcudia marshes on Majorca last year ...
- are you sure, that you saw Anacamptis laxiflora??
Habitat the same, only orchids a bit different.
Kristof
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: SteveC2 on May 23, 2013, 02:18:03 AM
O.K. I saw what the locals call Orchis (Anacamptis) robusta, but even the arch splitter Delforge seems to cast doubt on this being a genuinely separate species.  I loosely quote, "Reported in Majorca, the Algiers region, and a site in Morocco, and also Crete.  This taxon probably groups together a heterogeneous assemblage of robust large flowered individuals."  Now as a robust large individual myself, I reckon I'm still part of the human species, so in my humble opinion being a big laxiflora doesn't make you a different species.  Other books refer to it as a subspecies of laxiflora so I don't think I'm wrong when I say that I saw laxiflora.
The marshes are part of a nature reserve and all the laxiflora had been hand pollinated then little white tags had been attached, making photographs a little difficult.  As did the fact that I'm a good boy and did not cross the tape that had been set up to prevent trampling by not such good boys.

p.s typing this at exactly 2.00 p.m. having been woken by the mother of all thunderstorms.  What is happening to the weather?  Oh well it fills the water butts. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: K Andrzejewski on May 23, 2013, 08:04:11 AM
Previously it was only one species with 2 subspecies:
- Anacamptis laxiflora subsp. laxiflora (unspotted lip)
- Anacamptis laxiflora subsp.palustris (spotted lip)
I agree with you that both are very simillar to each other - but with good differences to be a separate species, with visible distinctive marks and also genetically. They are 3 subspecies of laxiflora, and also 3 of palustris, one of them is robusta:
http://www.pharmanatur.com/Baleares/Orchis%20robusta.htm (http://www.pharmanatur.com/Baleares/Orchis%20robusta.htm)
I don't remember now, but about 5-6 years ago Orchid-Friends from Spain collected signatures across Europe for a petition to the government to stop immediately plans for the next "investments" (hotels, golf course etc.) and save this marshes.
Kristof

P.S.
- for the most part there are many routes to the same destination and we must all find our own- and respect the paths taken by others struggling on the same pilgrimage!
... it was only simply question
Will these shrink a bit?
and now I'm not tolerant??? ......
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Maren on May 23, 2013, 10:19:40 AM
Hi Maggi,
treat yourself to a (or some)  Min/max thermometer(s). Then you don't have to venture out at midnight to see how cold it is. Actually, from experience, it tends to get colder after midnight. You wouldn't like to get up and out at 03:00 to be on the safe side?? ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Neil on May 23, 2013, 10:25:19 AM
Maggi that's why my thermometer is stuck to the glass

Mark

Those type thermometers are not showing the correct temperature as they are picking up heat loss from the building, which will raise the external temperature just outside the building.  You need to get a Wi-Fi one.


Maren the coldest part of the day is usually 1 hour before dawn
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on May 23, 2013, 10:32:13 AM
Never thought of that Neil. So I need a wifi one with the probe among the plants
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on May 23, 2013, 10:50:42 AM
Over night my A. laxifloa has done some growing which has allowed the flowers to reflex
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Maggi Young on May 23, 2013, 11:12:14 AM
Hi Maggi,
treat yourself to a (or some)  Min/max thermometer(s). Then you don't have to venture out at midnight to see how cold it is. Actually, from experience, it tends to get colder after midnight. You wouldn't like to get up and out at 03:00 to be on the safe side?? ;) ;) ;)
To my shame, I've done that too, on occasion - now I am working on my sleep problems, I hope to get past such folly!
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Alex on May 27, 2013, 05:53:13 PM
One of the last Ophrys today - O. lacaitae.

Alex
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Corrado & Rina on May 28, 2013, 09:40:59 AM
Hi Alex,

Where did you get this Ophrys? I had never seen it on the market before, and would not mind one ....

Best,
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Anthony Darby on May 28, 2013, 10:48:24 AM
They are beautiful Alex. I just love green flowers. 8)
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Neil on May 28, 2013, 11:56:47 AM
Alex love the Ophrys lacaitae, though it is now named as  Ophrys fuciflora subsp. lacaitae,  would it be possible for you be able to fertilise a couple of the flowers for me? One on each plant, so that I can can grow them from seed.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: K Andrzejewski on May 28, 2013, 12:19:18 PM
Neil - could you grow Orchis mascula from seed???
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Corrado & Rina on May 28, 2013, 12:23:58 PM
Alex, do you know from which geographic population yours came originally? The south Italian one or the Croatian one?
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Alex on May 28, 2013, 06:28:10 PM
Hi all,

Glad you like it, I got it from Heinrich Beyrle (www.myorchids.de (http://www.myorchids.de)) several years ago, it's all the same clone as the tubers multiply slowly over the years, but I'll try fertilizing anyway. Never had seed set on anything but apifera yet.....I couldn't say where the seed originates either, I'm afraid.

Heinrich offers a lot of really interesting Ophrys if you're that way inclined.

Cheers,

Alex
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Neil on May 28, 2013, 07:49:18 PM
Alex- Thank you

Neil - could you grow Orchis mascula from seed???
Kristof

I have never tried to grow that one, but it should germinate on Malgrems Medium,
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: freddyvl on June 01, 2013, 02:22:53 PM
A few orchids blooming in the garden now, just to enjoy !
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Catwheazle on June 01, 2013, 02:38:44 PM
@freddyvl: Fantastic ... I can only dream :o  :o  :o
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: fredg on June 01, 2013, 06:35:14 PM
They are beautiful Alex. I just love green flowers. 8)

Is this one green enough?
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: mark smyth on June 01, 2013, 07:40:37 PM
I've fallen behind reading the forum .

As you know I've lost a few or four orchids due to neck rot. Would it help them if I planted them closer to the surface in a layer of washed grit or cover the tubers in grit up to the surface?
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Catwheazle on June 02, 2013, 08:09:34 AM
hi Mark,
No, I think not. It depends on the species. Rather, I believe that less humus and more mineral substrate for some species is important. Some tolerated at all no humus in
Subtrat. who want pure mineral earth. The amount of water is also important.
Known Ophrys, such as apifera there are extremely sensitive. I rather suspect that there may well be fungi in the presence of others - to be held - harmful. The thing with the "protection mushrooms" is not proven. but would explain a lot, for example why in pot culture virtually impossible outdoors but possible.
Last but not least, especially in spring: In the greenhouse humidity is often high and low ventilation As I already own plant (Ophrys) when you.

Bernd
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Maren on June 02, 2013, 08:52:08 AM
Freddy,
that is a wonderful collection of plants and I really like your presentation. Well done. :) :) :)
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: K Andrzejewski on June 02, 2013, 11:18:12 AM
A few orchids blooming in the garden now...
- the second sample of pictures, right lower corner: is this Orchis x spurium (x Orchiaceras spurium)??
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: freddyvl on June 03, 2013, 03:02:31 PM
- the second sample of pictures, right lower corner: is this Orchis x spurium (x Orchiaceras spurium)??
No, it's the flower of Orchis italica. Maybe a little bit different as usual because it's a flower of a shoot of a large plant which was divided and replanted individually last year.
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: K Andrzejewski on June 03, 2013, 04:21:36 PM
- can you please show only photo of this plant? I don't think this is Orchis italica.
Kristof
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Tony Willis on June 12, 2013, 10:53:11 AM
A couple of green ones

Listera ovata
Platanthera sparsiflora  and

Ophrys apifera a nice swap with a friend
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Neil on June 12, 2013, 04:20:48 PM
Nice O. apifera, always reminds me of summer! 
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: fredg on June 12, 2013, 08:13:59 PM
Just got to love those happy faces :D


(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2853/8994050937_b4c4843462_o.jpg)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8117/8994051341_c6c202cfba_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: Neil on June 13, 2013, 08:08:21 PM
Very nice Fred,  ;D
Title: Re: Orchis, Ophrys and others 2013
Post by: fredg on June 13, 2013, 08:38:10 PM
Things are moving on apace now  ;D

Calopogon tuberosus

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3680/9030793039_1e28114952_o.jpg)
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal