Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => Flowers and Foliage Now => Topic started by: fermi de Sousa on July 31, 2014, 11:24:39 PM
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Still winter in this part of the world (insert chattering teeth emoticon here)
In the garden the first "retic" is open - a new one for me which Otto and Jon had at the last AGS Vic Group meeting, Iris 'Violet Beauty'
cheers
fermi
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Hi,
It really is Brass Monkey weather down here .... Yuk!
Here's one to add to Fermi's:
ex Narcissus cantabricus var petunioides - didn't quite make the petunioides bit.
Cheers, Marcus
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Hi Maggi,
May I suggest that the last few posts on the latest SH thread be hived off into a weather topic?
cheers
fermi
That's done - now that thread is in the "general" section http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=12127.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=12127.0)
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Hi,
Its crocus time so a couple more from here:
A very dark form of sieberi - probably a hybrid.
Crocus abantensis - a cute little thing but not always blue blue.
Has the forum changed its ruling on image size? There seems to be an awful lot of "over-sized" images being posted.
Cheers, Marcus
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Has the forum changed its ruling on image size? There seems to be an awful lot of "over-sized" images being posted.
Cheers, Marcus
No : the limits remain the same: maximum of 200KB per image and with a recommended max. width of 760 pixels.
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Seed sown as Tecophilaea violacea.
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Anthony I love that Tecophilaea, another new one for me.
I managed to take a few quick photos this morning, I hope I'll have more time tomorrow.
Iris reticulata 'Harmony'
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3914/14808249202_3cae625d97.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/oyy9zq)
Astrantia major 'Claret?'
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3847/14785602136_48d9d514e6.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/owy5oL)
Trachystemon orientalis, one of my new favourites
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2921/14621954269_b1131d9b6d.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/oh6kzP)
Tropaeolum peregrinum
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3882/14621985748_987649260d.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/oh6uWy)
And Iris reticulata 'Purple Gem'
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3873/14754273122_8a7ababb41.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/otMvnm)
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Hi Folks,
Beautiful pictures Jamus!
Anthony I think your Tecophilaea is a variety of the species cyanocrocus but it doesn't look purple-violet enough. The only other species is spelt violiflora and I think the flowers are held on a scape.
Couldn't resist posting a picture of a range of Cyclamen hederifolium leaves. They look so nice in the rain.
Cheers, Marcus
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Anthony I think your Tecophilaea is a variety of the species cyanocrocus but it doesn't look purple-violet enough. The only other species is spelt violiflora and I think the flowers are held on a scape.
Cheers, Marcus
Yes, I just missed out the specific name. Paul T sent me some violiflora seeds when I lived in Dunblane. Must look for it again.
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Thanks Marcus, your Cyclamen hederifolium medley is pretty stunning! Here's mine, was in flower about a month ago. Nothing special, just the bog standard one I suspect.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3793/14294632026_1d89f12cb1.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nMaJ5S)
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Jamus you have a damn fine camera there. Plus Marcus I would grow Cyclamen just for the leaves but the flowers are a bonus.
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Disclaimer: these are not my flowers!
They belong to a member of FCHS who brought them to the Rock Garden Group meeting yesterday.
Andrew says he got a few of each from Otto years ago and now Otto says Andrew has more than him!
I'm talking about Tecophileas of course!
The violet form wasn't apparent when I photographed them inside the hall but after the meeting I got pics of them outside with Andrew holding the boxful,
cheers
fermi
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Those Tecos are lovely. I doubt the "violiflora" is that though - I think that's what is commonly known as Tec. cycanocrocus var. violacea.
T. violiflora has a couple of flowers per stem flowers and mostly only a single leaf - I believe :-\
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Hi Maggi,
do you think this might be T. violiflora?
cheers
fermi
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Here's what the rest of the bench looked like at the meeting on Saturday,
cheers
fermi
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Hi Maggi,
do you think this might be T. violiflora?
cheers
fermi
No, I don't really - think the "clue" is for the flower to be viola-like - see forum pix from Fred 'bulbissime' and Hans A. here: http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=2667.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=2667.0)
From Chileflora
http://www.chileflora.com/Florachilena/FloraEnglish/HighResPages/EH1084.htm (http://www.chileflora.com/Florachilena/FloraEnglish/HighResPages/EH1084.htm)
Described in AGS encyc. as "Leaves solitary, lanceolate, 8-20cm by 8-13mm Flowers one to ten, to 1.4cm across, blue, lilac, purple or white with narrow tepals creating a starry appearance, on peduncles 15-30cm tall, spring. Native to thinly vegetated hillsides: sea level to about 1000m. Greatly inferior to T. cyanocrocus."
Forgot to add page from PBS : http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Tecophilaea (http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Tecophilaea)
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and also
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=2667.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=2667.0)
I think I had it a while from collected seed but never flowered it.
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Learning lots from this forum, Tecophilaea is another one new to me. What a gorgeous colour. What conditions do they like?
Pat, my camera is a good one and I have some nice glass too (tech speak for lenses). I hope some of it is down to the user too! I'm looking forward to taking some photos of your Irises in the spring. :)
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In the UK I grow them frost free in pots. Usually a fairly sandy / gritty but rich mix. I never let them dry out. I find them straight forward with me.
I've proably got several hundred bulbs now from a few I originally bought - but that was 20 years ago.
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I haven't seen T. violiflora but from reading I understand its flower is quite a lot smaller and presumably viola-like (maybe) rather that violet in colour (or maybe not). I had some of each of the 3 recognized cyanocrocus forms last year from Bill in Tauranga and the violacea form was very true and was the only one which gave me two nice seed pods (safely sown of course). If they're grown in close proximity, the three will produce an amazing variation of colour combos as can be seen in some of Ian's Bulblogs and of course any Tecophilaea is a good (very good) Tecophilaea. ;D
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Mark/Maggi, the references you give are great and show exactly what T. violiflora is like. If meeting it in the wild, one would not immediately think "Ah a Tecophilaea."
Marcus, that's a great selection of Cyclamen foliage. Great to have those leaves when the flowers are not out.
Can you give any information about the origins/breeding/selection of Crocus 'Midas Touch' please? Otto and I would both like to know. I've thought it was another selection from E A Bowles but from what? and anyway I may be quite wrong about that. It's another good doer here, like 'The Chocolate Soldier' (thank goodness) My spring crocuses are just about finished and it's still so early. I've never know them to start in early winter (May) and be gone by late July. :'(
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Hi Lesley,
If David Stephens is still on the Forum he can give you the run down. Other than that I will fish out the article he wrote for an AGS bulletin some time ago now. Alan Edwards, who raised it from seed and distributed it, also showed it at an AGS event and his description and explanation of its origins were reported, again in an AGS bulletin.
Cheers, and I will get back, Marcus
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PS It doesn't have anything to do with Bowles. The seed was sent to Alan by Ray Cobb but the provenance is the mystery.
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Hi, I found the article. Its in AGS vol. 66 no.3 Sept. 1998. David's article begins on page 353 and the reference is on page 360 just before a terrific article by Alan Edwards with some stunning accompanying pictures of Crocus pelistericus and a white form of C. cvijicii.
Unfortunately David was none the wiser back then (but obviously perplexed) about the plant's heritage and was still citing the original explanation. Maybe someone out there has some later information? I seem to remember Alan's little vignette might have the possible answer. Janis will know for sure.
Cheers, Marcus
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Sorry about this long-winded reply. I remember that Tony Goode mentioned on the forum a couple of years ago that it is considered to be a hybrid between cvijicii and sieberi.
Cheers, Marcus
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No, I don't really - think the "clue" is for the flower to be viola-like - see forum pix from Fred 'bulbissime' and Hans A. here: http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=2667.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=2667.0)
I'd forgotten that pic, Maggi.
I agree with Lesley that I'd never have picked the true violiflora for a tec!
cheers
fermi
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Thanks Marcus. I'll have a look in the relevant Bulletin, though they are still all in boxes :-[ and are unlooked at for nearly 2 years! Otto wondered if it could be cvijicii x veluchensis. I'm pretty sure some of my seedlings which MAY be from that cross are actually cvijicii x sieberi, the form I have as 'Bowles' White' because I can't see where else the white seedlings in the various batches could have come from. At the time the pods developed on cvijicii, BW was in the trough next door, just half a metre away. It's not impossible of course for several compatible species to have a stake in a given seed pod. I remember once collecting seed from Mt Nimrod in South Canterbury, from Celmisia lyallii. When they germinated, at least 4 species other than lyallii could easily be identified as pollen parents. What an interesting sex life some plants have. ;D
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In his book (p.170, entry for Crocus sieberi), Janis says:
"In 1994 Alan Edwards spotted an unexpected yellow seedling among a group of plants raised from seed of Crocus sieberi. He considered the new form to be on the same level with 'Bowles' White', but with the white surface colour replaced by two tones of yellow. Edwards later named it 'Midas Touch'. The seeds had come from cultivated plants of C.sieberi grown by Lyn Bezzant in Scotland. These plants undoubtedly were a hybrid with an unknown species, perhaps C.chrysanthus or C.cvijicii. The latter seems more probable because like C.sieberi it also belongs to series Reticulati."
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Ah, thank you Matt. That sounds good and Otto will see it here too. I'll make a note in my diary (which I've kept religiously this year, for the first time ever). This makes me rethink some more of my cvijicii x veluchensis seedlings. Some were white as I mentioned above but some were like cvijicii itself (large and egg-shaped) but of soft yellow shades, often two toned, much paler than cvijicii yet without any of the purple of veluchensis and not the apricot to magenta tonings of some. Perhaps these too are cvijicii x sieberi, the white form. Next flowering I'll photograph many more of them. There was enormous variation in what I at first assumed were seeds of just cvijicii. (I've typed that word so often now I can just about spell it without thinking about it. :D)
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Marcus, I meant to ask you, have you seen much variation in the depth of colour of C. pelistericus? You may remember I had some seed from you a year or two back and I got 16 flowering plants from that, flowering for the first time last year. It has yet to flower now, seemingly the last for the season but already showing colour. When they're out I'll take a picture. They've grown so quickly and are doing so well I have doubts that they're maybe not the right thing. They are lighter in colour than I expected from pictures I've seen elsewhere, especially Ian Y's flowers.
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Hi Mat,
thanks for this information. Janis is not quite correct. Initially, as one can see from David's article, it was thought that the plants had arisen from a batch of wild collected seed. Thats why there was such interest.
David has good cred. He held a national collection of crocus and was practically Alan's neighbour. It would be great if someone could come up with Alan's description and ďiscussion which he posted in a subsequent AGS journal when he exhibited. I received corms from Alan and I believe all of the corms in the Australia, and I assume NZ originated from that import.
Cheers, Marcus
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Thanks Marcus , Matt and Lesley for all the information re the parentage of Crocus sieberi "Midas Touch ' . here a photo of it flowering in the garden a few days ago. also one of C. sieberi ssp. sieberi
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and some irises : 2 reticulates and 2 Junos . I nussairiensis alba was a kind gift from Lesley Cox in 2006 ( Lesley tells me she has lost her stock ) , it is still the single bulb and has never set seed . I . nicolai is from seed sown in 2008 ( Michael Kammerlander ).
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Woooow! There's some beauties there. How fantastic is it that we can grow all these things out of doors.
Great stuff Otto!
Cheers, Marcus
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Thanks Marcus for your kind words - I only wish I had a better camera to take better quality photos ,like Jamus for example .
Just 3 of the many Galanthus species and cultivars in bloom at the moment in my garden .- not new and rare = expensive ,just "Old Faithfuls".and excellent growers .
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Can you give any information about the origins/breeding/selection of Crocus 'Midas Touch' please? Otto and I would both like to know. I've thought it was another selection from E A Bowles but from what? and anyway I may be quite wrong about that. It's another good doer here, like 'The Chocolate Soldier' (thank goodness) My spring crocuses are just about finished and it's still so early. I've never know them to start in early winter (May) and be gone by late July. :'(
Lesley - hello, Otto - long time no see, Marcus - I'm still here!.
The full explanation of 'Midas Touch' is in AGS Bulletin Dec 2001 Vol 69 page 510.
I knew that Alan Edwards had the seeds from which it grew from Lyn Bezzant, but I mistakenly thought it was from wild collected seed by Lyn.
As Alan explains in his article the seed was from plants grown by Lyn that had originated from a wild collection seven years earlier.
I well remember his excited phone summons for me to see this 'yellow' sieberi that had just flowered in a variable pot of seedlings.
For years after that it slowly increased till there enough to give to a few friends; now, thanks to good growers like Marcus it is quite widespread.
I am so pleased that you are succeeding with 'Chocolate Soldier' another Crocus that owes it existence to Alan Edwards.
This was obtained from the garden of Primrose Warburg by Alan and myself; there were only a couple of corms so I wisely left it to Alan to grow them on.
'Heff' Warburg, Primrose's husband and professor of Botany at Oxford University was a great Croconut and he got the originals from Bowles.
David
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Hi David,
Great to hear from you and to get your take on Midas Touch. Thank you for the reference. I knew I had seen Alan's piece but couldn't pull the details out of my memory.
Enjoyed your recent article in Frit group journal.
Cheers, Marcus
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PS
I received some absolute gems from Alan in those early years, including:
Crocus tommasinianus Bobbo, Pictus and a beautiful claret one possibly from Oliver Wyatt, nudiflorus white form exJoy Hulme, corsicus with lemon exterior, chrysanthus Sunspot. And probably more!
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Few more crocus from Hill View:
Crocus biflorus ssp pulchricolor - seed collection originally from Ulu Dag. One of them is a bit chewed.
Crocus etruscus Rosalind - Is it a sport of Zwanenburg?
Crocus chrysanthus "Herald" - interesting variety. Very fertile.
Crocus versicolour Cloth of Silver or is Picturartus?
Cheers, Marcus
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15 to 21 degsC over recent week or so but last night a good snowfall, the first we've had this year so a bit of a shock to the system here in the far south of NZ. There's been more further north in the "proper" winter. We're just about in spring mode now until this..... about 12cms on our lawns.
Second picture is of camellias just about to burst open. I'd planned to be planting Iris ensata forms under them today!
Third is of the pear tree, 'Doyenne du Comice,' and I've been watching a tui sitting up there eating snow.
Fourth is of the Eucryphia outside the front door.
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Fifth and sixth are of front lawn with remains of egg-shaped and horrid rose bed, now cleared for bearded iris planting when it dries up (and after reducing and re-shaping). Prunus autumnalis in left foreground of sixth.
Seventh is of an early camellia. The hens jump up and snatch and eat the flowers of this one so there are no flowers left lower than about 60cms.
First camellia out on a plant which taps on my bedroom window. The bright spot isn't the sun, but camera flash, this being the dark side of the house.
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Lesley,
The snow is so beautiful! I hope that you did not get any plant damage??
Here in the Sierra Foothills we get the "Sierra Cement" - a very wet snow that generally causes a lot of damage, or pruning, depending on how one wants to look at it. The last big snow we had - and the power was out for about a week. The oak trees snap, breaking the power lines. We have wood heat, a wood cook stove, and kerosene lamps so we are okay til they get the lines fixed.
Thank you so much for sharing the photographs - I'm feeling cooler already! :)
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Hi Lesely.
I told you it was on the way! :)
Looks brilliant though.
Cheers, Marcus
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Well, Lesley, we haven't had any snow drop on us, but there's still some snowdrops here ;D
I think this is 'S. Arnott', not doing too badly but not loving it in our garden,
cheers
fermi
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Lesley that's an amazing winter wonderland you had there. My kids would have been beside themselves with joy. :D
No snow here but a very frosty morning resulted in a heavy frost, quite rare for us here. No damage done I don't think but some pretty ice crystals on things in the garden.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3876/14672121467_7e2e8d9fc8.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/omwsxv)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5557/14878531263_c0dc059ffb.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/oELmZ6)
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They belong to a member of FCHS who brought them to the Rock Garden Group meeting yesterday.
Andrew has told me he has also been growing T. violiflora (from seed) for the past 4 years but hasn't had a flower yet. He's wondering if they need colder conditions than he can provide for them to flower. There's both a blue and a white form of T. violiflora. I tried growing it from seed but the seedlings didn't last long.
Otto - your irises are beautiful.
Lesley - the snow cover looks beautiful. It's a novelty for us to have snow - on rare ocassions it falls on the alpine areas down to 600 metres.
Jamus - your photos are beautiful and put mine to shame but I'll keep trying! I only have a CSC camera - the intricacies of DSLR cameras are too technical for me.
Marcus - with all the beautiful crocuses you grow do you ever get hybrid seedlings coming up?
Otto has kindly given me my first yellow Galanthus - 'Spindlestone Surprise' as well as the beautiful 'Ophelia'.
Cyclamen coum ssp elegans - just about to be transported to a meeting.
Veltheimia bracteata - one tough plant that gets no attention from me at all and yet performs year after year.
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Some very special flowers there, Jon!
I posted a pic of Romulea sabulosa to the South African bulbs thread, saying that the poor light levels meant the flower wasn't fully open.
Well, it was sunnier the next day!
I have 2 strains of this romulea, one grown from NZAGS Seedex, the other from Garry Reid, a "local" supplier.
The one from NZ has a slightly different centre and exterior to the one I showed earlier,
cheers
fermi
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That Romulea is stunning, Fermi!
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Wow fermi, that's my kind of plant! Love that scarlet and the intricate patterning on the backs of the petals is stunning. Do you collect seed? ;)
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Hi Jamus,
I've dabbed pollen between the two types and am hopeful that seed will be set!
Send me your details by PM,
cheers
fermi
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Love that Romulea sabulosa, Fermi. I grew it at work for over 20 years. Bulbs got more and smaller but never a flower :'(
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Hellebores 2014
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Hmm, dark colour, nice edging - did you breed it yourself, Jeff?
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Lovely things above. I'm always surprised when Rom. sabulosa comes out so early. It looks like a summer plant to me but hey, who's complaining. It's surprisingly hardy but my present climate is perhaps not sufficiently warm to ripen the bulbs for flowering. I have masses of smallish daffodils in pots and bursting with buds but precious few labels among them so as they open in a week or so, I'll post some pictures to the Narcissus thread and hope for IDs.
In the meantime, here is the first flower I've had on a small plant of Helleborus vesicarius. That was another surprise because I hadn't even noticed that it was up at all. It came from a stall at the NZAGS Show maybe 5 or so years ago or maybe at a Study Weekend. I believe it likes a good warm place and summer drought/heat. This one has just about been under water for 6 months, and the same last year. The rain continues, daily and nightly. I've hand-pollinated it in hope but probably not. :'(
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Hi Maggi
The reverse pic appeared came from seed sent to me, however the primrose is my own work.
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Lesley
Congratulations with the ves, a few years back managed to get 10 seeds to germinate and slowly over the next few years they failed to return.
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Jeff,
that reverse picottee is very nice and the double primrose is something to be proud of!
Roma,
I never did well with Romulea sabulosa till someone (either Garry Reid or someone on the forum) told me that they need a lot of water while in growth, so the pots stand in a tray of water once they break dormancy till the foliage starts to go yellowish. The last two years have produced the best flowers so far. I dry the pots off along with the other South African bulbs and they get a hot dry summer,
cheers
fermi
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Fermi , I planted several clumps of Orthrosanthus laxus in the Native Rockgarden at Ferny Creek .
Hardly any sunshine the last few days here ,so Crocus flowers won't open . Luckily Hellebores do not depend on sunshine to open and stay open . This one is my darkest . None in the pot of Narcissus cantabricus var. petunioides are actually 100% petunioides .
Marcus Harvey collected seed of this Crocus biflorus ssp biflorus on Rhodos .
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Lesley
Congratulations with the ves, a few years back managed to get 10 seeds to germinate and slowly over the next few years they failed to return.
Oh well, I'll look forward to that Jeff. ;D
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That's the black you gave me seed from Otto? One is about the same shade, others a little redder but all good.
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A few from this afternoon. I got home from work and it was still light! What a novelty...
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5552/14707683687_4a451c462a.jpg)
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3881/14891095131_da9d7756a6.jpg)
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3855/14894133305_6f9a727294.jpg)
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3865/14891096261_3473ca0601.jpg)
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3885/14871171706_31b63af76b.jpg)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5587/14871172006_d7c141759f.jpg)
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Otto - your black hellebore is indeed deliciously black - and so is the foliage. I think it is quite unusual to have such very dark foliage, even on a good dark-flowered plant. We have often been disappointed that dark flowers do not come along with dark leaves.
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Jamus - great photos. The Zantedeschia is so elegant and mysterious. Speaking of mysterious, I thought for a moment you had a garden full of Zebra - so many patterned legs :(
But no, wrong kind of black and white ??? A stunning shot - but I'm not sure what it is - an aroid of some sort?
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Dracunculus vulgaris stems rapidly expanding. It's one of my favourites, such a strange and wonderful beast. My wife isn't so keen on it. The smell puts her off a bit. ::)
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Dracunculus vulgaris stems rapidly expanding. It's one of my favourites, such a strange and wonderful beast. My wife isn't so keen on it. The smell puts her off a bit. ::)
Oh wow! Seems early in the season- are they getting an early start this year? I wasn't thinking of something quite so "chunky" as Dracunculus. Fab stems - hope you don't have them too close to the house?
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Close enough Maggi... close enough. :D I love the plant and bought it with us when we moved house. Do you grow it up there in Scotland?
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Plenty do have it - we don't cos we've more than enough stinky aroids as it is! Ian delights in planting Arum dioscoridis near the back door, for instance - "sigh"!!
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I bought Arum dioscoridis from Marcus a few months ago. It's growing well but I don't think I'll get a flower this year. Do the flowers come before the leaves or after?
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Leaves grow then as they are going back it flowers. But in some years it flowers as the foliage is still quite fresh.
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Oh that's promising! I think I'll feed it tomorrow morning and move it to a sunnier spot. You've made my night Maggi. ;)
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Jamus your dracunculus stems look awesome..
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Colour description of hellebore flowers is a highly debatable topic.
I have engaged in discussions on 'black' hellebores on other forums and do not wish to cause any offence but the only way to verify the degree of blackness is to place a matt black card behind the flower and compare. The main anthocyanins in dark hellebores are reds and possibly blue which makes a true black unlikely. The same pigments are present in reds (not really a primary red) and dark hellebores, but the darker flowers have a higher concentration of pigment, the pigment colour can be changed by altering the pH of the pigment extract becoming very dark when the pH is highly alkaline.
While I seek and aim to breed the darkest of dark hellebores I refer to these as dark purple but not black.
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Stephen, the stems are as weird and wonderful as the rest of the plant. I have a young clump of Dracunculus canariensis as well but haven't seen a flower yet. I'm told that one smells sweet, like vanilla ice cream or custard! ??? We shall see.
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No offence is taken Jeff, regarding your "black" colour comments. Colour, like much else, is in the eye of the beholder. I have a TRULY black viola, a local seedling from way back, called, not surprisingly, 'All Black. And there's Viola 'Molly Sanderson' as well, really black. These are matt black while Viola 'Bowles' Black' tends to be a "gloss" colour and is annual or short-lived at least (a form of V. tricolor) while the other two are fully perennial. I'll post a picture later when mine are in bloom.
But Otto's Hellebore is that wonderful BLUE black with no sign of red or purple in it and one of my seedlings from it is the same. I guess it's like the search for a primary red or primary blue iris. Without the genes for those colours, they're not going to happen but no-one could say Iris histrioides isn't blue or Iris 'Concerto Grosso' (an arilbred) isn't red.
Your double yellow is a wonderful thing. :)
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Lesley
My colour comments unfortunately are tainted by my employment in the paint industry where colour definition is strict and can be measured using a spectrophometer and placed within a clearly defined colour space. Notwithstanding this I do turn a blind eye when the mood takes and blue black hellebores are a case in point, now is that blue black or slate?
I have 2 primrose doubles from the cross that gave rises to the primrose posted earlier, the other plant gives flowers with only 2 rows of sepals and has not flowered this year as hoped so I could cross the 2.
Pollen production by many of my doubles this years has been poor which I can only put down to the weatherS conditions.
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Another beautiful plant Jeff. You're making some lovely forms in both colour and shape. Keep up the good work. :)
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I like the form of that Hellebore Jeff. I must get some more for the garden here, they really do well in our climate and all the ones I have are seedling donated to me from other gardeners so it's a bit of a mixed bag.
Science of colour, now that's a fun topic! Of course you know we're talking about two different things, the electromagnetic spectrum which is completely objective and then colour, which is created in the brain after the stimulation of pigment molecules in cone cells in the retina! Our brains dampen the signals coming from our retinas in an attempt to balance the signal, so our perception of colours changes depending on the light environment we find ourselves and the surrounding colours or the "context". Then there's the cultural element, what we call colours depends on our learned systems for naming them!
To illustrate my point, check out this image - http://www.curiouser.co.uk/illusions/lotto/c.jpg (http://www.curiouser.co.uk/illusions/lotto/c.jpg)
Looks pretty straight forward right? But did you know that the centre square on the top and the centre square on the front of the cube are the exact same colour? :o
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Yes have seen the cube before, gloss has the same impact which is why colour matching is as much an art as a science.
If you talk to someone who has had cataract surgery they will tell you how their perception of colour changes post surgery as the presence of cataracts is like looking through a yellow filter. Really interesting to look at a flower after only having one cataract removed, a different colour for each eye.
Hellebores colour is determined by light and temperature, this is why with some colours there is a definite colour variation from year to year.
Cold does intensify dark colours and this could explain why the intensity of darks may see some defined as near black in locations where intense cold occurs pre and at flowering. Dark hellebores that flower over summer are very pale and washed out compared to the same plant flowering at the usual flowering tome.
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Colours:
not quite the same thing, but there is also the effect of growing or opening flowers under glass rather than outdoors - that can make a large difference to the flower and foliage colour of a plant.
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Maggi I see this effect of climate in flower colour with my Cerinthe major. The first year I grew it I was blown away by the beautiful blue bracts (leaves?) around the flowers. Since then I've never had it look as good! I'm sure it's exposure to cold or hot or some factor that I haven't pinned down yet. Anyone know what makes Cerinthe colour up? ???
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Great portrait shot, Jamus.
Anyone know what makes Cerinthe colour up? ???
Don't suppose it might be embarrassment? ;) ;D
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Mine's certainly never been so brilliant as in your portrait Jamus. If I didn't know better (do I know better?) I's think it had visited the Photoshop. :-\ ;D
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HA! I don't think so Maggi... It's flowering now in the garden but looking very green at the moment. I'll watch it closely and see if any colour change coincides with any external factors... I can't imagine how one might embarrass a plant, especially a Boraginaceae. They aren't exactly shrinking violets! ;)
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To illustrate my point, check out this image - http://www.curiouser.co.uk/illusions/lotto/c.jpg (http://www.curiouser.co.uk/illusions/lotto/c.jpg)
Looks pretty straight forward right? But did you know that the centre square on the top and the centre square on the front of the cube are the exact same colour? :o
???? ??? ??? ???
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Lesley, no I didn't photoshop that image, apart from general contrast and brightness and sharpening. I didn't accentuate the colour, it really was that brilliant! I think perhaps it's heat that does it... I just can't remember.
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I think heat is a definite factor and so many plants from Mediterranean climates are very vivid in colour. This is the same plant on a hot sunny slope as you enter Faversham, self sowed down the bank which is glorious with rock roses and bulbs right through spring into summer. (The other thing is photographing the plant with light cloud cover which improves colour saturation no end. I normally do edit photos a little but haven't touched this one).
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Cerinthe colour apart - what a lovely flowering display that is for passers-by to enjoy at Faversham 8)
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It is too Maggi (a passing shower stops play at the moment). The whole bank is lovingly cared for by a group of volunteers and sponsered by the local pub! Anyone walking along the path below from now on should be able to pick up a whole lot of Cerinthe seed. It was a minor celebrity in the world of horticulture maybe a decade or more ago in the UK and it is really worth that status - a great plant.
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Maggi I see this effect of climate in flower colour with my Cerinthe major. The first year I grew it I was blown away by the beautiful blue bracts (leaves?) around the flowers. Since then I've never had it look as good! I'm sure it's exposure to cold or hot or some factor that I haven't pinned down yet. Anyone know what makes Cerinthe colour up? ???
Mine's certainly never been so brilliant as in your portrait Jamus. If I didn't know better (do I know better?) I's think it had visited the Photoshop. :-\ ;D
What Jupiter shows is pretty much the normal, un-altered colour for Cerinthe major 'Purpuracens' so far as I have seen it...?? Here's a crappy photo but one can perhaps get the drift from it:
[attachimg=1]
EDIT: I should add, though, that Jupiter's shot is a very clear and beautiful photo!
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Yes! The photos from Tim and Lori are just what I saw and what I expect from the plant! It doesn't always deliver though. Last year they were a bit insipid so we'll see what this year brings.
I know what I'll do. It's just started flowering so I'll take a picture this weekend, and one every Saturday through the season. I'll post them all up in a thread with notes about the weather and we can all see how they change through the season. :D
Tim I love the pink and white drift below the Cerinthe, very effective and an excellent planting scheme for a hot climate, like ours.
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A few from tonight. Spring is creeping in, but not fast enough for me! Tired of the cold and we're all looking forward to more sunshine.
This little Ipheion was a gift from Trevor Nottle, but I cant remember what he said it was called... shame on me. ???
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3862/14924459022_c729da75e7_z.jpg)
Hermodactylus tuberosus; must be the hardest flower to capture faithfully in a photograph, EVER! I'll try again when the sun is shining, that might help with the translucency.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3919/14737869907_d78c9b1957_z.jpg)
And the first image of my series on Cerinthe "Purpurascens", as it looks now.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3837/14924815935_81b3437a58_z.jpg)
And a closeup here showing the merest beginning of blue on the smallest bract.
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Hermodactylus tuberosus here yesterday.
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Lovely warm light in your photo Pat. It was almost dark when I took mine. It has an indescribable colour doesn't it?
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Yes I do love it's strange colour combination.
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Hermodactylus tuberosus here yesterday.
I'm on the look out for seeds, unless someone in New Zealand has tubers?
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Anthony if you don't find anyone with tubers you're welcome to seed from mine when they are ripe.
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Hi Jamus,
The Ipheion looks like 'Rolf Feidler' sometimes called I.peregrinans, though not everyone agrees!
I think that the Cerinthe major varies greatly in the colouration of the bracts and you need to select for the best colour - it's like the way "all the gladdies have turned white" because the white ones are more prolific in reproducing.
cheers
fermi
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Jamus, you take a lovely picture.
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Thanks fermi. I have a lot of plants this year so I'll see what variation I see between them once they all come into flower. I'm expecting to see some development of colour as well.
Thank you David, I enjoy photography and would love to have time to do more. When I started I used to shoot black and white on film and develop them in the laundry with the window taped up. Ahhh those were the days. 8)
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I can't help with tubers(?)/bulbs of the Hermodactylus Anthony but if you have joined NZAGS, several people in Chch grow it well. I'm thinking particularly of Peg Tocher who has or had a lovely flowering patch a while back when I was there. Maybe a small ad in the NZAGS newsletter would produce a result. I can't flower the darned thing.
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I have TONS of seed. Send PM and we can go from there.
Lovely photos on this thread. I think I should be getting you to take my catalogue pictures Jamus!
Wet cold day today so I'll post a few pics to cheer myself up:
A series of common Cyclamen coum pictures and two crocus that I have already posted this season, Crocus gargaricus, a tough little customer from western Turkey with varnished yellow flowers and C. biflorus ssp pulchricolor, another great little plant from the colder NW of Turkey.
Cheers, Marcus
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PS I meant to address this to Anthony. I will have a seed list out soon which will include this species plus lots of others.
A few more pictures:
Fritillaria forbesii is an elegant plant from the SW of Turkey under threat from loss of habitat.
Fritillaria davisii isn't always chocolate brown. This one is from Kalou in the Inner Mani where most of its native range has been cleared to make way for olive groves.
Fritillaria spetsiotica from the island of Spetses. This particular population has almost been entirely wiped out by forest fires and subsequent reforestation.
Oh, and a better close up of Cyclamen coum et. al.
Cheers, M
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I can't help with tubers(?)/bulbs of the Hermodactylus Anthony but if you have joined NZAGS, several people in Chch grow it well. I'm thinking particularly of Peg Tocher who has or had a lovely flowering patch a while back when I was there. Maybe a small ad in the NZAGS newsletter would produce a result. I can't flower the darned thing.
I suppose they are tuberous bulbs, but I'm surprised you can't flower it Lesley. My sister used to have it growing and flowering in an unkempt part of her garden in Essex, but it's now gone. I will investigate NZAGS. Thanks. BTW, Kew seem to have dumped it back into Iris. ::)
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Yep I did notice the reclas. I like fancy names like Hermodactylus, so much more fun than Iris. Like they seem to have moved Isoplexis into Digitalis. Why!? Isoplexis is an awesome Genus name. :)
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Bought this Cymbidium with two flowering spikes last year and plonked it into the back border. Five flowering spikes now. 8)
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Bought this Cymbidium with two flowering spikes last year and plonked it into the back border. Five flowering spikes now. 8)
When you've got things like this in your garden you should be calm no matter what others call it, be that "yard" or whatever!
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40 years ago gardening was the number one hobby in New Zealand. It's now down about 24th. I look at new houses here and most of them only have "yards" - just patches of concrete with the BBQ and a patio set. Huge houses on tiny plots of land with no greenery to speak of. :(
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Sadly the same is true here in California and maybe the rest of the USA - huge houses with tiny yards, and not much in the way of plants. :(
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40 years ago gardening was the number one hobby in New Zealand. It's now down about 24th.
I was at the Balclutha Garden Club's 70th anniversary dinner a few weeks ago . At the meeting the secretary read the president's report from the 25th anniversary dinner held in August 1964 . Membership then was 150 . Now it is 38 . In 1964 99% of the members were male . In 2014 males make up 1/38th of the membership (me)
In 1964 it was all about vegetables and men were judged on the size of their vegies . Now it's all about flowers and I have to lead a double life as I fear the Golf Club lads will find out I'm in the Garden Club . In 1964 they were probably in both .
Those big houses and their tiny yards are missing their vegie gardens as well as the flower beds . Instead of big vegies men are now judged on their big toys parked in the yard
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This is a really interesting topic and I grapple with the same all the time. I am constantly looking out for people who share my passion for plants but they are thin on the ground. Of the men I know who are interested in gardening most are involved in a competition to see who can grow the hottest chilli!
When you look back to the origins of the "hobby", the Victorian era when European plant collectors were scouring the globe for rare and exotic plants it was definitely a gentleman's pursuit. I often think I was born in the wrong century!
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40 years ago gardening was the number one hobby in New Zealand. It's now down about 24th. I look at new houses here and most of them only have "yards" - just patches of concrete with the BBQ and a patio set. Huge houses on tiny plots of land with no greenery to speak of. :(
Interestingly enough, one of the major hobbies or national pastimes is now - looking at houses. When we were thinking of selling and then when we were looking for a new place, many, many of those who attended "open homes" were just there to have a nosey at other people's homes, no intention of buying.
The trend towards tiny "yards" is partly a matter of greed, with councils allowing people to subdivide almost to extinction. Yet the houses they build for themselves are huge. There are many down this way, houses with 5 bedrooms, 4 bathrooms and God knows what else, and two elderly people living in them. The land is maybe 300 sq metres and the house takes up 80% of that. Madness. Why not just live in a supersize sardine tin?
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Why not just live in a supersize sardine tin?
Here in Auckland many do.
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This is a familiar theme and probably has many threads but the main one is the rise of hyperconsumerism. Hence the McMansions and the rise in "window shopping" garden visits, instant gratification, the infiltration of time-wasting entertainment gadgets, now we have a million and one ways in which we open ourselves up to the ad man, the loss of "own time" and the rise in the manipulated need for "connectedness" (oh look at me, look at me!), a shift in values (I am what I buy), the handing over of the self to market forces, etc.
The other big force for bad is the rise of the managerial class and their propensity to fit everyone neatly into the categories of "the watched" and the "watchers". The result? Bells and whistles, gold-plated regulation dreamt up by rule-bound, risk-averse, "one size fits all" bureaucrats who have become the client as well as the service provider.
Add to this the 21st century gold rush to grab every last living thing on the plant and put it into ownership. You only have to see the shemozzle that's going on right under our noses in Europe to get the picture. These last two forces work neatly together, hand in glove, to ensure a limited, highly controlled market place that stifles real curiosity and interest.
These three forces are the real enemies of gardening, membership and community participation.
If you haven't got a business tax file number you don't have a right. If you don't tow the line you don't have a hope.
M
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And while I am on my apple case I will add:
Things are not aided by the print and television media in Australia. Their content is as boring as bat's crap because those running the show are lazy and in the pocket's of the big plant importing and distributor companies. Most of the people on the front line are usually inner city, late sippers who don't own a garden and whose idea of communing with nature would be sipping an organic, multivitamin smoothie whilst watching a David Attenborough re-run late on a Saturday night.
M
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Having a bad day Marcus? :)
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Just positing an opinion ;) M
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Marcus you hit the nail on the head. Your comment of "look at me, look at me" is bang on. Ego out of control. I have a neighbour who has an urban mansion, above and overlooking our place, fittingly. they've got the big house, the big FWDs (plural). The first thing I did when we moved in here is plant a hedge right along the front of the property to screen off the neighbours and the street traffic. I let weeds grow on the front verge and don't bother to go up there much, so our garden is inside out compared with all the others on the street, which are obviously designed to look nice from the street but get more ramshackle as you go back.
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We were promised the benefits of consumerism and the "trickle down" effect, but what we have got is zombie economics and the "trickle up" effect.
I was going to make myself some fish box troughs, but now realise you need three arms to accomplish this task. ;)
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Sounds like the moon must be in a certain sector down here down under.I have just composed a letter to be sent off tomorrow to a Council re an old property which is now in the hands of a developer. So much early South Australian history will be bulldozed out of existence for those mcmansions. possibly 4 on the block that had one house before. A thatch roof too from early on and an extinct everywhere else rose.
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Spent the day crevice packing (every time I say that my wife giggles for some reason... ::) ) and my hands a sore! Took the skin off all my knuckles. I know, I should wear gloves. I hate wearing gloves.
A few from today;
Galanthus 'Straffan'
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3863/14757134279_418e127021.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ou3aTD)
Origanum syriacum, my favourite oregano.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3923/14757134789_e3a0bf59bc.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ou3b3r)
A common Hellebore
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5553/14920828746_70bb95aee2.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/oJv9y3)
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Marcus - t'was ever thus if you read Kingdon-Ward and the plant explorers of old. There is a divide between those who actually go out and discover the world and the vast majority who don't and get their kicks from consumerism. But both my children (who I like to think are quite intelligent) spend hours playing computer games and poring over i.pads, and I probably spend much more time on the computer than I should. Connectivity with others who find plants so fascinating is important even amongst the so called 8 million gardeners within the UK (possibly less than 8000 are captivated by alpine plants, more's the pity when you grow them) - even amongst the gardeners I know well here in Kent hardly any are really hooked on alpines and a more intellectual view of gardening. We are a pretty unusual lot!
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For me it's an absolute passion for the details that make every species unique. It's about the plants themselves for me, although I want my garden to be beautiful and have an ambiance at the level of design, after I've created the bones I want the plants to take over the space and make it their own. I want visitors to my garden to feel that the plants have the upper hand and I am just an observer, although this is an illusion because we play the role of shepherd when we garden, guiding nature and helping her when she leans toward our vision of paradise and scolding her when she strays.
Italianate gardens? Not for me thanks.
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Hi Jamus,
I think you'd like the Italianate gardens created by Harold Peto; have a look at Iford Manor and you'll see what I mean. There are pics somewhere on this Forum; we visited it last year and could've spent days there - the perfect mix of Italian style and English floral exuberance!
cheers
fermi
PS I love that oregano! What are the flowers like?
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Fermi I looked at some pictures of Iford manor and it does look amazing. It almost has a lost city, ruined feel? I have a lot of stone in my garden and straight lines and even the odd statue and urn, so I suppose I'm influenced by the romance of the Italianate style as well. We definitely plan to go to the uk and visit some of the great gardens. Have you been to Hidcote and Sissinghurst?
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Hi,
I am not going to argue one way or the other on the effect of hyperconsumerism. Just to say that it has pervaded our lives to an unprecedented degree, aided and abetted by the internet (and before that by tv). We only have so many conscious hours in a day. Something (s) has to give (way) ... . Jamus, you and me, well, we already belong to that weird tribe who are curious and self starters. The rest of the community . . . well they are up for grabs. Suggest you take a look at Edward Louis Bernays' maxim on mass marketing. Its the gold standard by which advertising operates.
BTW I agree that connectivity is a good thing but txting while crossing a busy road at peak hour? There's got to be some serious stuff happening in that person's brain ... and it ain't good.
Jamus, I have never seen this origanum of yours. And obviously neither has Fermi? Did you grow it from seed? I see that it's called Lebanese Oregano.
Cheers, Marcus
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PS I suppose I am trying to make a case for the beneficial effects of gardening and plant study, apart from the obvious. For quiet spaces, for a chance for an interior world to develop, for contemplation, from time free from the humdrum rollercoaster of a busy life, for the lost enjoyment of taking the time to REALLY look and register the world, for a true connectedness to all other living things and the web of life that supports us .... . Are we going to leave it only to the poets to do this for us? And then read it online?
PPS There is a wonderful Leunig cartoon from many years ago that presents these ideas far better than I can in a single frame
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=leunig+sunrise+cartoon&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=_CnxU9r0JZG68gW03oCgDw&ved=0CDMQsAQ&biw=1188&bih=559#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=kfOZvrIAUCfraM%253A%3Bkazhcla4SGpvDM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252F2.bp.blogspot.com%252F_YfzD4D5MyQU%252FRvM8n7sl5zI%252FAAAAAAAAAjs%252FXarOt8vzRdM%252Fs320%252FMichaelLeunig_Sunrise.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fpoltoons.blogspot.com%252F2007%252F09%252Freferences-and-inspiration-2.html%3B320%3B229 (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=leunig+sunrise+cartoon&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=_CnxU9r0JZG68gW03oCgDw&ved=0CDMQsAQ&biw=1188&bih=559#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=kfOZvrIAUCfraM%253A%3Bkazhcla4SGpvDM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252F2.bp.blogspot.com%252F_YfzD4D5MyQU%252FRvM8n7sl5zI%252FAAAAAAAAAjs%252FXarOt8vzRdM%252Fs320%252FMichaelLeunig_Sunrise.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fpoltoons.blogspot.com%252F2007%252F09%252Freferences-and-inspiration-2.html%3B320%3B229)
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Biblical oregano - Origanum syriacum is a beauty and is an important herb in the middle east. It's known as Zaatar which is a name also used for the mixture of this herb dried with sumac and sesame seeds and salt. This spice mix is made in Australia variously with dried thyme or oregano as a substitute. I was very interested in spices about 10 years back and collected a lot of spice plants from all over the globe. I bought a tiny packet of equally tiny seed from some odd ebay seller and got a couple of germinations. Only one survived and I bought it with me when we moved house 5 years ago. It's loving it here. The flowers are very insignificant, green bracty little balls a lot like marjoram. I love it for the lovely rugose leaves arranged neatly in opposite pairs up the stems. It's has excellent culinary properties and of all the oregano I've grown it has the purest, cleanest oregano aroma. A lovely plant and you're all welcome to divisions or seeds.
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Hi Jamus,
Interesting ... would love some seeds sometime. Don't send divisions - Tasmania is a separate country these days :(
Maybe I could swap you Sideritis syriaca just to keep the symmetry?
Cheers, Marcus
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I LOVE Leunig. I was introduced to him by my Mt-Tomah-in-the-Blue-Mountains friend. Many a laugh since then. ;D The one you showed Marcus, reminds me of all those people madly taking photos on their smart phones of this or that celebrity and never actually getting to see the REAL celebrity, only later as a picture.
So pleased I belong to the "never throw out your iris seed pots" school. This morning, the 3 seeds I was given by Otto, ex a German contact, of I. stenophylla ssp. allisonii are all up, in one go. They were sown in October 2008! Of course no-one knows better than I that a seed germinated doesn't equate to a bulb in flower but one has to start somewhere.
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I wish we had a politics thread on the Forum.
Edit by maggi - well, we don't!
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I fear part of this discussion might be excised off at any moment! Lucky the Boss is asleep ;D
Lucky you with the iris seeds. I think part of the allure is the potential for all sorts of mishaps to occur along the way. Bit like Extreme Fishing with that mad Geordie, Robson Green.
I bought from a German guy a large swag of seed of your said species. I had max germination but over the years they have dwindled. Since discovering Seramis my weights have been considerably raised and now I actually have increase on the remaining bulbs.
I still pine for I. fosteriana. Such a spindly, sickly customer here in Tasmania. BTW the opening sentence in the Wikipedia entry for this plant is NUTS! Does anyone know how to change it?
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Hi again,
Bringing it back to plants:
Crocus chrysanthus "Nanette" - little-known variety given to me by Otto a long time ago.
Fritillaria strausii - probably a Pilous plant. I have no experience with this plant so I don't know if its correctly named.
Cheers, Marcus
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Hi,
Fortuitously today's post by Michael McCoy touches on some aspects of what I have been trying to say. AND a wonderful picture of a young Otto Fauser in esteemed company!
http://thegardenist.com.au/2014/08/watching-the-watchers/ (http://thegardenist.com.au/2014/08/watching-the-watchers/)
M
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Some great links there and a compelling photo at Great Dixter: doesn't Beth Chatto look quite coy surrounded by all these male gardeners? For me I have an ambivalence about the Internet because it introduces so much so quickly and yet there is a magic in seeing all these plants. I like the use of the web as a blog or diary that shows what you do day by day (which is why Ian and Maggi's garden is so fascinating to see). It's a process rather than a collection of beautiful images. The result can be an incredible garden like Great Dixter or Beth Chatto's but it is (borrowing from that cartoon) outside the window rather than on the screen. My garden still recalls some fantastic walks in the Tasmanian mountains (especially since Lesley has sent me some plants of Richea scoparia), as well as loads of places I will never the chance to see. Nice to have writing about gardens and places as well as pictures.
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Well spoke Tim.
Yes doesn't she? Michael made the same observation in his reply to me.
Cheers, Marcus
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I fear part of this discussion might be excised off at any moment! Lucky the Boss is asleep ;D
Yeah, well she's reading this now, so watch out!
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Yeah, well she's reading this now, so watch out!
Uh oh... I think we've been sprung kids. :o
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It was Lesley, she started it ;D
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I usually quote my school motto: "It wisnae me. A big boy done it and ran away. "
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Wimps, the lot of you. Oh well, enough said.
Quote from: Lesley Cox on August 02, 2013, 03:05:35 AM
At the DBG yesterday after a meeting I saw a planting of perhaps 30 Helleborus 'Flash Gordon.' I hoped these might be available as a seed strain but the Internet so far is just giving two or three sources of individual plants, from garden centres. I bet they'll be expensive. Billed as the result of years of selective breeding, the flowers are in a range of bright red to black, paired with very dark green to deepest red foliage. The one I liked best I thought at first was a paeony, crimson blooms and foliage of deepest plum colour, a spectacular plant. They were surrounded too, by a lot of new seedlings from last year's flowers. I'll take my camera tomorrow and see what I can do. The mass planting was really thrilling.
From Maggi: copied from 2013 thread where message was posted :
Further to this post, and some following ones from Lesley on page one of this thread with photos of the lovely Helleborus 'Flash Gordon', I have had this message today :
Message:
Lots of chat about MY Helleborus 'Flash Gordon' on this page. This is my strain and it breeds pretty well true. I have a huge patch of the mother plants growing in isolation on volcanic soil at 2000 feet. In flower now - eat your heart out!!
Tons of seed Lesley!!
Gordon Collier.
gordonsc@xtra.co.nz
8)
I see that Helleborus 'Flash Gordon' is starring again in the Dunedin Botanic Gardens. Thanks to a 2013 post slipped in here unawares, I now realize it is a strain bred by Gordon Collier, one of NZ's greatest gardeners and a friend, many moons ago. One loses touch sometimes, to my sadness. From the name of the hellebore I should have made the connection. I'll email Gordon and beg nicely, for some seed. :) It seems a terrible waste though to have to ignore all those seedlings in the DBG. I would have done that anyway but I find now, after picking up a couple of crataegus fruits from the ground on Thursday, that Dunedin City Council has made it clear to all the staff at the Gardens and through them to the general public, that to help oneself even to a fallen seed pod, or a coloured autumn leaf, is a hanging offence. This is the result of a Council staffer having allegedly helped himself to a number of vehicles, maybe 20 or more, while in charge of the Council's fleet, sold therm off and not accounted for the proceeds. It was only after he died recently, a self-inflicted death apparently, that the light has been shed.
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At our botanic gardens in Adelaide there is a $5000 fine for taking plant material but I don't think it extends to dropped seed capsules, fruit or leaves! I understood that it was digging plants out of the ground. Of course it doesn't stop me when a little seedling is in the path or even taking a small cutting from the underside of a perennial where no one will ever notice the difference, and seeds are fair game as far as I'm concerned! I mean honestly! I realise that many disrespectful and selfish people could do a lot of damage and that because of them they must adopt a zero tolerance policy, but I seriously doubt that a gardener there would throw the book at me. I am passionate about our botanic gardens and I defend them passionately; I would never dream of doing anything to diminish their beauty.
I was talking with Ian Powell, nurseryman and former curator of Mt. Lofty Botanic Gardens and he told some horror stories of people sneaking in after dark and digging out rare specimens, including one very rare and very large Rheum (I forget the species now) which they dug on in entirety leaving and enormous crater and carted away over the fence! I was gob-smacked. How could you possibly enjoy that specimen in your garden knowing full well that it was obtained in the most deplorable and dishonest way imaginable?
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Hi Everyone,
It is incredible what individuals will do once madness sets in. I guess botanic gardens have to protect their assests and themselves if they have agreements about the use of certain plants.
Referring back to what I previously said about the ownership of all naturally occurring living organisms, I am sure there is an element of this involved. How many botanic institutions share their excess material with an interested public? I doubt if any in the UK do it anymore.
Our state botanic gardens does allow a fair bit of public participation. They have a scheme whereby propagated plants are sold at open days, they do demos on propagation and when I was involved they offered garden tours. Much of this all run by volunteers. But at least it is an attempt to give a sense of community ownership.
Cheers, Marcus
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BTW Back to Jamus' picture of his hermodactylus.
Jamus are they greeny, goose poo coloured and it is the light that changed their color? Or are they bluish?
Cheers, Marcus
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No marcus, they aren't really bluish, I fiddled with the colour balance because the photo was taken in very dim light and I wasn't happy with the colour in the photo. I shouldn't do that I know!
Here's another one taken with more light and more faithful I think.
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5594/14943808045_436f610b84.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/oLwVuR)
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Occasionally the friends of the botanic gardens volunteer group have a plant sale and I rush along hoping to see all the lovely stuff from the gardens but alas, it's always generic plants that one could buy from the local garden centre. Disappointing. Why not propagate from the gardens interesting collections? Beats me.
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Hi Jamus,
Why? One word: Bureaucrats!
Our gardens was staring down the barrel despite being a major tourist attaction. It HAD to find a way. It was forced into the marketplace and it necessary community support. If all that hadn't happened it probably remained a stuffy, self involved, inward-looking public organization. Look at the latest crazy decision by your zoo re ice cream!
Is your flower slate or green?
Cheers, Marcus
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It's slate Marcus, almost... a little yellowish green down the throat, purplish near the 'eye spots'. Very hard to describe!
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Is it as bluish/slate as this one Jamus?
Cheers, Marcus
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Anthony, my SRGC Journal - July - arrived yesterday and is lovely and useful as usual but I now see what you mean by needing 3 hands for fishbox troughs. How lucky is Ian to have acquired an extra from somewhere. ;D
I found the Taylor article on Lilium species from seed especially interesting and useful. It's one I'll refer to frequently.
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Those tuberosus are very blue. Here's one of mine in my greenhouse back in Dunblane, being visited by a queen wasp.
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Anthony, my SRGC Journal - July - arrived yesterday and is lovely and useful as usual but I now see what you mean by needing 3 hands for fishbox troughs. How lucky is Ian to have acquired an extra from somewhere. ;D
;D ;D ;D
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Hi Anthony, yes they are very blue. Jamus tells me I supplied his. I have never had any as blue as that. The one I posted was one discovered in Crete (and which I covet! ).
Cheers, Marcus
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Just a couple on the run.
Crocus tommasinianus Taplow Ruby - a rare item in the UK now I believe?
Crocus corsicus - poor season here for this species.
Fritillaria davisii - the chocolate model.
Cheers, Marcus
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Around this time each year I have flocks of birds descending on my Eucalyptus nicholii tree. They go crazy for the tiny flowers. You really have to look hard to see the flowers - mind you the 20 Pied Currawongs in the tree yesterday didn't have any trouble finding them. Once they set seed various birds from the parrot family fly in for their feed.
Saxifraga x poluangelica red form just coming into flower.
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Hi Jon,
I have the same situation but my visitors are possums. They eat the flowers and those of nearby fruit trees. I love to see the little ringtails but the brushies are very unwelcome. Musk Lorikeets are our main visitors this time of the year and the valleys around our mountain are ablaze with the golden yellow of silver wattles.
Cheers, Marcus
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Hi,
A few more crocus from Hill View:
Crocus x jessoppiae - Mrs Jessopp's Crocus
Crocus pestalozzae var. caerulea - apparently the more common form. Or is a new species? :-\
Crocus olivieri ssp balansae - Little seen taxa. This one's from Samos. Probably another newly elevated species. I'll stick to the old name for the time being.
Cheers, Marcus
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Hi Jon,
I'm not sure about the parentage of your red saxifrage. The name suggests two from the kabschia or porophyllum section, little grey limy, cushiony jobs, hard when well grown, while the foliage in the picture looks like that of a "mossy, bright green and soft. Maybe Otto would like to comment?
(We were offered this morning, an 18 month old Jack Russell whose sole parent is coming to the end of her life and she feels she must find her Otto a new home. He looks so like our precious Teddy, no longer with us, but we feel we can't have another dog, with Marley getting on now and neither R nor I in tip top health. An 18 month JR would be a huge handful. With much regret we said we couldn't.) :'(
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Hi All,
as a first post thought I'd just chip in with a couple of things that are giving me a little joy at the mo.
Scoliopus bigelovii and Asarum splendens.
Had been watching the Scoliopus with anticipation but went out and found all the flowers but one devoured by an errant snail... >:(
Cheers,
Ben.
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Hi Ben,
Welcome to the thread. Love these slightly creepy, crazy flowers. Makes you wonder what these designs are all about?
Cheers, Marcus
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Oh Ben, get out there double quick with some slug and snail pellets. NOW! before it's night time. and oh yes, a warm welcme to the Forum. ;)
Carefully guarding Frit alburyana from slugs at present. Last year it had a loverly bud which was scooped out to nothing in a night!
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Welcome, Ben,
looking forward to seeing what other treasures you're growing down on the Bay!
cheers
fermi
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Hi Lesley,
I did think it was strange that I couldn't find much information under the name s. poluangelica. The leaves are the same as one I bought last year under the name saxifraga x apiculata white form (which isn't flowering yet). I'll hopefully see Otto on Saturday so I'll ask him or Viv to identify.
Marcus -
I only have ringtail possums in my garden which (touch wood) don't do any damage. The same tree usually has a Tawny Frogmouth in it at night - maybe that scares the possums away from that particular tree. Rainbow lorikeets live permanently two doors up from me. They only venture into my garden for the eucalyptus flowers and my figs. Eastern rosellas and occasionally crimson rosellas also come for the flowers and figs. And don't get me started about the Noisy miners...
Hi Ben - welcome! That Scoliopus is beautiful. Shame about the snails.
I'm trying to build up stock of Narcissus cyclamineus. I purchased 5 bulbs this year and each one is flowering in succession so that I never have two flowering at the same time (I want to hand pollinate them). Natures way of taking the mickey?
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Hi All,
as a first post thought I'd just chip in with a couple of things that are giving me a little joy at the mo.
Scoliopus bigelovii and Asarum splendens.
Had been watching the Scoliopus with anticipation but went out and found all the flowers but one devoured by an errant snail... >:(
Cheers,
Ben.
Greetings Ben! Scoliopus is one of my favourite plants, both S. bigelovii and S. hallii. Luckily, even if the first flowers get chomped each plant will send up a whole bunch of flowers over the season and I can already see more buds showing on yours. Silver lining to the cloud, eh?
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Hi Ben and welcome. Fantastic plants you've got there, I've always loved the Scoliopus but haven't grown it myself. Do you find it easy?
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Cyclamen rhodium peloponnesiacum from SRGC seed sown Feb 2012.
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At our botanic gardens in Adelaide there is a $5000 fine for taking plant material but I don't think it extends to dropped seed capsules, fruit or leaves! I understood that it was digging plants out of the ground. Of course it doesn't stop me when a little seedling is in the path or even taking a small cutting from the underside of a perennial where no one will ever notice the difference, and seeds are fair game as far as I'm concerned! I mean honestly! I realise that many disrespectful and selfish people could do a lot of damage and that because of them they must adopt a zero tolerance policy, but I seriously doubt that a gardener there would throw the book at me. I am passionate about our botanic gardens and I defend them passionately; I would never dream of doing anything to diminish their beauty.
I was talking with Ian Powell, nurseryman and former curator of Mt. Lofty Botanic Gardens and he told some horror stories of people sneaking in after dark and digging out rare specimens, including one very rare and very large Rheum (I forget the species now) which they dug on in entirety leaving and enormous crater and carted away over the fence! I was gob-smacked. How could you possibly enjoy that specimen in your garden knowing full well that it was obtained in the most deplorable and dishonest way imaginable?
There is a zero tolerance policy at Oxfords Botanic Gardens too, even to taking seed. I was once handed a few Salvia seed (which died due to my neglect). But as they tend to use the seed, share with other institutions or offer them to the full members I see the point.
On the plus side, the plant sales area whilst selling the usual tat also has some interesting (hard to get) stuff available through the year. None of the true rarities though. I have a rather nice Eryngium agavafolium which cost me just three quid (although that said once the slugs discover it it goes downhill for the season).
They also had a serious issue with plant theft. Many orchids were stolen.
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Sorry about late replies guys, in the midst of a house move...
@ John - I have quite a large crate of N. cyclamineus which I get seed off every year, if you'd like to PM me I can send you some seed (if I can find it that is..!), I'll post a pic of the box tomorrow too, it's in full glory at the moment (although full of weeds, :-[...)
@ Jamus - Yeah, I don't find Scoliopus too difficult, well no more difficult than any of the Trilliaceae that I've grown anyway. It survived years of neglect in a pot before I put it in the ground, and it didn't seem to faze it too much. In the ground now it has become a little stockier which is good. It originally cam from Sally Johannsohn probably over a decade ago, but I have no idea where you'd get one from now...
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;D
Hi John
You don't need a second N. cyclamineus. You can self pollinate them and they will set seed. Not sure what happens in your area but our N. cyclamineus also propagates by division. There are lots of myths surrounding the growing of N. cyclamineus and N. triandus.
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Hi Graham,
I see your dividing Narcissus cyclamineus but I find as a general rule they rarely divide for me. Maybe an occaisional one. But then again I probably sell most of my flowering stock from year to year so maybe there is a maturation factor involved? My brilliant partner Suzie is currently painting N. cyclamineus for this summer's catalogue. How lucky am I?
Jon, you are so lucky having Crimson Rosellas in your garden. We don't have this species, or Rainbow Lorikeets. We do have Easterns and Green Rosellas, Tasmania's endemic species.
Cheers, Marcus
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8)Hi Marcus
We try and keep our some of N. cyclamineus as our seed producers and for exhibition so some have been with us for 20 years. We also try and keep different forms. What we don't have is the short fat one that the NZ use for exhibition purposes. Ours tend to be very large because they are full-sized. Most of what is exhibited are young N. cyclamineus that tend to be much smaller.
We are near a river and the wetlands so we have an abundance of birdlife. As Fermi knows we are a rural area that is within the city limits. Still regarded as remote rurul in terms of broadband coverage!
Marcus the plants and bulbs we have acquired from you are doing well and flowering now.
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We occasionally get Eastern Rosellas in the garden.
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Marcus , I have been growing the white form of Crocus pestalozzae col. Camlica, Turkey for about 40 years , a smaller flower than var. caeruleus and so not very showy , where as C. heuffelianus 'Lilac Wonder' is bold and handsome . Crocus tommasinianus is becoming a weed here , seedlings appearing where they should not , but I still think it is beautiful. The Crocus season is coming to its end ,only veluchensis , v. albus and pelistericus to flower yet .
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Wow what a great selection of birds! Sadly we don't have those wonderful parrots in Tassie. We do have Swift and Blue Winged parrots but they are about the size of budgies :(.
Are the Eastern Rosellas blowins Anthony?
Otto, you gave me the BM collection of the white pestalozzae a long time ago. I have white seedlings now. Crocus heuffelianus is a beautiful plant producing so many lovely forms. What about C. kosaninii and minimus "Bavella"? They will be in the mix.
Cheers, Marcus
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Marcus , I have been growing the white form of Crocus pestalozzae col. Camlica, Turkey for about 40 years , a smaller flower than var. caeruleus and so not very showy , where as C. heuffelianus 'Lilac Wonder' is bold and handsome . Crocus tommasinianus is becoming a weed here , seedlings appearing where they should not , but I still think it is beautiful. The Crocus season is coming to its end ,only veluchensis , v. albus and pelistericus to flower yet .
Great show Otto , it help us waiting for the autumn flowering ones ...... ;)
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Hi Otto, I have some Crocus tommasinianus which I got from Marcus about to flower here and I hope they become a weed for me too ;). Better that than creeping oxalis!
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Better that than creeping oxalis!
Tell me about it!
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At our last AGS Vic group meeting the "bench" was very impressive, so here are some pics,
cheers
fermi
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A few close ups:
Joy's Spiloxene (?canaliculata?)
Joy's Gladiolus alatus
Palmiro's Tecophilea cyanocrocus
Otto's Iris bucharica
cheers
fermi
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Some lovely stuff there Fermi.
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Puts the display bench at our local meetings in Aberdeen to shame :-[
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Puts the display bench at our local meetings in Aberdeen to shame :-[
Trade you for some of those dwarf daphnes and blue meconopsis ;D
cheers
fermi
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A few quick ones from this morning before work.
Tropaeolum tricolor
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3855/15025372006_d9d514ce19.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jstonor/15025372006/)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5578/15025371616_3e4512bcf6.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jstonor/15025371616/)
Epimedium versicolor, this one is a gift from Otto and I'm not sure of the variety...
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3910/15048368905_56a4db55f6.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jstonor/15048368905/)
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3880/14861810327_dd45de27dd.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jstonor/14861810327/)
My very favourite Geranium, Geranium incanum.
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5555/14861782438_f1b1573ecc.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jstonor/14861782438/)
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It's unusual for me to have time to read any of the journals when they arrive. Today I broke with my own bad habits and have been enjoying the latest NZAGS bulletin on the day it arrived. A pleasant change indeed.
I have been taken by a plant that I know very little of but which features in super photos by Don Geddes to accompany an article on "A visit to Adams Island" - these are of Gentianella cerina, in two colour forms.
A search of the forum showed that it has never been mentioned here so I was comforted to find that I had not simply seen it here and forgotten it! :-[ ;)
From the photos in the bulletin (and there are a good number on the internet of this plant) it appears that the plant can make fat clumps of flower in very pretty colours.
Gentianella cerina (Hook.f.) T.N.Ho & S.W.Liu
Original publication details: Bull. Nat. Hist. Mus. (London), Bot. 23: 62 1993.
You can read a bit about it here :
http://nzpcn.org.nz/c/flora/factsheets/NZPCN_Species_502.pdf (http://nzpcn.org.nz/c/flora/factsheets/NZPCN_Species_502.pdf)
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It's an absolutely gorgeous week here in Adelaide and spring has sprung with a splendid flourish! Excuse my saccharin enthusiasm, I'm just feeling all giddy with the springishness... :P
Crocus vernus 'pickwick' (but I don't have to tell you people that...)
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3919/14817529540_557acbde3d.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jstonor/14817529540/)
Melianthus major in bud (what's not to love about this plant?)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5561/14994949396_b4d0750340.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jstonor/14994949396/)
Eruca sativa, common rocket.
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5579/14994948286_4c8fc1dddc.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jstonor/14994948286/)
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I want to appologise for inundating the thread with my photos. :( I feel like we aren't seeing anyone else's anymore... I am going to stop posting up images for a while, I want to see what others have to offer.
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Don`t stop!
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Apologise? Inundate? I think not - it is a delight to both see what you are growing and to enjoy your super photos, Jamus.
We are always pleased to have contributions for the Southern Hemisphere as and when they arrve - in the same way as for any other area.
Ralph has the right idea - don't stop! :D
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Indeed, don't stop, Jamus. It often takes a photograph of the quality you post to appreciate the beauty of some flowers. For instance most of the Brassicaceae are thought of as drab. Your pic of common rocket certainly disproves this perception.
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Jamus - please do not stop. Your photographs, and all the others for that matter, simulates new ideas for my own garden. Your photograph of Tropaeolum tricolor was nice, maybe something to consider for my own garden. But then that leads me to a question?
When you say that your summers are hot, what do you consider hot?
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Robert as I too live in South Australia and have been to northern California I would say that we are similar but you would be a little cooler I should imagine with a little more rain in a 'normal' year not like your last few.
Jamus if you would like to visit after 3.30 tomorrow I would be home. There are some lovely flowers out there that might be batthered and wet by next weekend.
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Jamus , you asked for some images from the Southern Hemisphere . I took the following today in my garden , on a warm and sunny day ,almost spring like .All are quite every day plants but beautiful to my taste . However the quality of my photos is much inferior to yours . The only rarer plant would be Scilla goranica . As the first autumn flowering Colchicum appear in the Northern Hemisphere here the last of the winter flowering ones, Colchicum diampolis is still in bloom .
Enjoy the Arils at Pat's tomorrow -my best wishes to her
Anemone blanda
Colchicum diampolis
Cr. tommasinianus
Cr. tommasinianus
Narcissus 'Mitimoto'
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and 5 more
Ornithogalum sigmoideum
Cyc.-persicum --col Israel
Frit.-davisii
Scilla-bifolia
Scilla-goranica
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Stunning Otto, you captured them beautifully. I love the Crocus, I have a few little C. tommasinianus flowering too but it's new for me and the first time I've seen it in person. I think something happened when you resized the second lot of photos which is a shame because I absolutely LOVE that Fritillaria davisii. Wow... I'm hoping to grow more Frits and have had some germinations from seed just in the past week which is promising.
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Nothing rare from me either but favourites of mine none-the-less.
Crocus tommasinianus 'Ruby Giant'
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3916/15053763416_8e6d8c490f.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/oWftp7)
My absolute favourite salvia (apart from perhaps Salvia discolor...), Salvia africana f. lutea
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3883/14894488309_c83b78db2d.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/oGb9sz)
Narcissus cyclamineus, brand new for me too.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3879/15058171126_c2b87e7cd9.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/oWD4E7)
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That pic of cyclamineus is stunning Jamus. Not one I've tried here. The persicum from Israel is awesome Otto. I have my first flower on persicum (from Jordan) just coming.
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:(
Hi
We left most of our rare non-daffodils behind when we moved to our little farm. Unfortunately we don't have as much shade as we had before so it will be a while before we grow as many things here that require shade.
As you can see from the names I am not good with remembering the names of anything other our narcissus.
I have been enjoying the photos. Adelaide Hills may be a little harsher than here.
Otto, even your ordinary bulbs are a thing to behold.
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That's the worst thing with a move, isn't it? Having to leave good plants behind. Odd isn't it really - after all no-one expects you to leave the furniture and paintings in the house....... ;) ;D
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That's the worst thing with a move, isn't it? Having to leave good plants behind.
Tell me about it. :'(
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::)
Hi
My move was only one side of town to the other. My lot left Aberdeen for Nelson in New Zealand a long time ago and then my grandfather came to Australia early in the 20th Century.
Our move will keep suppliers of rare bulbs from Tasmania in funds for a while I suspect!
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Robert as I too live in South Australia and have been to northern California I would say that we are similar but you would be a little cooler I should imagine with a little more rain in a 'normal' year not like your last few.
Jamus if you would like to visit after 3.30 tomorrow I would be home. There are some lovely flowers out there that might be batthered and wet by next weekend.
Pat,
Thanks for the climatic information. It does help me put things in perspective.