Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Specific Families and Genera => Pleione and Orchidaceae => Topic started by: mark smyth on September 16, 2014, 07:39:45 PM

Title: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: mark smyth on September 16, 2014, 07:39:45 PM
Many of my winter green now have noses poking through the grit despite being dry all summer
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: mark smyth on September 16, 2014, 10:58:33 PM
Darn I just remembered something I meant to ask weeks ago. I was planning to put all my O. mascula, O. pyramidalis, and something else, in troughs. Are the Greek ones genetically different to the UK plants? Can they be grown outside also?
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: Yann on September 19, 2014, 11:48:05 AM
Mark many of my Ophrys are already in the green too (6cm of foliage), first year i've got this state.
I think i'll water the pots this week-end because bulbs gonna exhaust.
In the southern french areas the autumnal rains are now falling heavily, it's a signal for watering our plants, i guess also grown under glass.

Gonna post a photo of mine to show you they look now.

pyramidalis will not survive in the moist climate of our northern areas, u'd better bring back pots to your greenhouse.
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: Yann on September 20, 2014, 12:29:25 PM
Mark you can see how my Ophrys and Orchis are already sprouting
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: mark smyth on October 29, 2014, 10:43:02 AM
Yann sorry for the long delay in replying

A. pyramidalis grows around the coast of N Ireland

The first spikes have appeared on my plants. Last year it was assumed they, O. lacteal, flowered early due to change in climate from Greece to N Ireland but they have had a year to change to our climate. They are a week later than they were last year
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: johnstephen29 on October 29, 2014, 12:56:19 PM
Hi Mark & Yann I grown lots of different tender orchids in the house, but I'm wanting to grow some of the hardier types like the ones you mention above, can you recommend a good nursery where I can purchase them from? Thanks John
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: mark smyth on October 29, 2014, 02:05:57 PM
I buy from terrestrial gems and med orchids on ebay. None are selling just now but will be in the spring
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: mark smyth on October 29, 2014, 02:11:33 PM
I'm wanting to grow some of the hardier types like the ones you mention above

These aren't necessarily hardier. They require frost free conditions. Others more experienced may want to comment. Last year I didn't have the warming cables on at all and never covered them with fleece. In 2012 the warming cables were set to +5 and at night when frost was due I covered mine with two layers of fleece. Someone has a 'lid' of sorts that goes over his plants when frost is due
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: SteveC2 on October 30, 2014, 10:11:11 AM

The first spikes have appeared on my plants. Last year it was assumed they, O. lacteal, flowered early due to change in climate from Greece to N Ireland but they have had a year to change to our climate. They are a week later than they were last year


But if they are genetically programmed to start growth at a certain temperature they will always start growing far earlier in Ulster than in Greece so they will not get "used" to your climate.  And if flowering is initiated when they reach a certain size then it will always be early here compared with the med.  But what's the problem with that?

When I was in Greece a week or so back I visited sites that I knew had Ophrys populations but it was still mid twenties and so none were up.  Crocus and cyclamen galore but no sign of orchids.

Some of my terrestrials, purchased from Australia pre CITES, are still six months out of "normal" phase.  Some changed to UK time, others refused.
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: mark smyth on October 30, 2014, 01:13:47 PM
Interesting that some of yours changed to UK time while others didn't. Did some of the same species refuse to change?
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: mark smyth on November 03, 2014, 09:33:44 PM
Here's just a few of mine - nice spotty leaves

Orchis italica
a lost label - to be truthful one I left lying around after planting the rest
Orchis provincialis
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: mark smyth on November 03, 2014, 09:35:49 PM
After lying around during the summer with the pot on its side I'm amazed my Spiranthes spiralis have the energy to flower. Are they late or is this flowering time?
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: Maggi Young on November 03, 2014, 09:37:17 PM
The variation in the patterns on the spotty leaves is fascinating, isn't it?  And  looks somehow reptilian in some cases. Love 'em!
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: mark smyth on November 03, 2014, 09:46:43 PM
I look at these spotty leaves most days - mostly because they stand out among all the other plain leaved species
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: Tony Willis on November 04, 2014, 02:25:31 PM
These aren't necessarily hardier. They require frost free conditions. Others more experienced may want to comment. Last year I didn't have the warming cables on at all and never covered them with fleece. In 2012 the warming cables were set to +5 and at night when frost was due I covered mine with two layers of fleece. Someone has a 'lid' of sorts that goes over his plants when frost is due

Mark it is me that has a lid of sorts! As you can see from the picture I have a sand plunge lined with polystyrene and fitted with a soil warming cable set at 5c. The box above it is twin layer plastic . I only close the lid when frost is threatened and so far it has worked well. You can see from the picture there is some snow in the greenhouse on a couple of pots on the floor. Last winter the heating cable did not come on at all. The main problem is condensation and so I have to open the lids carefully to avoid drips going on the plants below. I have though of some improvements but have not got around to making them. I have two further ones set up like this for other tender plants and my Cyclamen graecum collection.
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: Maggi Young on November 04, 2014, 02:35:28 PM
Crikey Tony - those plants of yours get luxury, b****y luxury!  ;D

Please do share when you get round to making those "improvements" 
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: Tony Willis on November 04, 2014, 03:37:34 PM
Crikey Tony - those plants of yours get luxury, b****y luxury!  ;D

Please do share when you get round to making those "improvements"

Perhaps because they a b---dy expensive to replace!!
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: Maggi Young on November 04, 2014, 05:12:43 PM
Perhaps because they a b---dy expensive to replace!!
That's a perfectly valid reason for a bit of cossetting, I agree!
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: SteveC2 on November 04, 2014, 05:52:19 PM
Here's just a few of mine - nice spotty leaves


a lost label - to be truthful one I left lying around after planting the rest

Looks like another italica to me.  The wavy edge on the leaf is a bit of a giveaway.  One or two of your plants look a bit yellow.  Check for greenfly between the lowest leaf and the grit.  It is their favourite hideaway and I am having major issues this autumn.

After lying around during the summer with the pot on its side I'm amazed my Spiranthes spiralis have the energy to flower. Are they late or is this flowering time?

Three of mine have finished flowering with four new growths coming up, but I would not worry about yours as my fourth is just coming through.

. The main problem is condensation and so I have to open the lids carefully to avoid drips going on the plants below.

I have already lost a couple of plants this autumn and am fairly certain that condensation dripping from the glass has been the cause.
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: mark smyth on November 14, 2014, 02:15:20 PM
nooooo!

Steve you're correct I have an invasion of aphids! Can I simply spray fly spray in the greenhouse? I've tried using a wee paint brush to kill them but they just crawl back
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: mark smyth on November 14, 2014, 02:30:36 PM
Thanks Tony. I must get one made asap. What's the height?
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: Tony Willis on November 14, 2014, 06:08:33 PM
Thanks Tony. I must get one made asap. What's the height?

12 inches above the sand at the front and 15 inches at the back.
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: mark smyth on November 20, 2014, 04:59:45 PM
So difficult to get a good photo of this little orchid

Spiranthes spiralis - autumn Lady's-tresses
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: Steve Garvie on November 20, 2014, 06:05:04 PM
Nice detail and nice plant!
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: Anthony Darby on November 21, 2014, 06:34:10 AM
Memories of Zakynthos in October, pushing my daughter Lucy (she's now 15) around the olive groves in her push chair, marvelling at the flowers that grew along the road verges.  8)
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: mark smyth on December 01, 2014, 09:08:27 AM
Tomorrow is to be sunny and warmish over here. To try and stop aphids I'm thinking of mixing some provado and painting it on the leaves of my orchids. Has anyone tried this?
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: Tony Willis on December 01, 2014, 10:34:51 AM
I spray with Provado on a warm sunny day. The finest possible setting,just a mist and early to give it a chance to dry.

If it is only an odd plant I pick them off with a damp fine paintbrush.
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: mark smyth on December 01, 2014, 11:05:10 AM
Thanks Tony. Some are in the middle of the rosettes.

Why do I hate cats so much!? Just found this in the greenhouse
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: Alex on December 01, 2014, 01:43:52 PM
I get angry when I see this sort of thing - why should we put up with other peoples' sodding animals riding roughshod (and crapping) over our plants and gardens? It's beyond intrusive. I feel like *******, but suspect a motion-activated water jet or similar is more socially acceptable.
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: mark smyth on December 01, 2014, 01:47:27 PM
I agree Alex. My mood changed when I went in this morning. Could smell it and was looking in my sand and grit containers. Never had a cat crap in the plunges before now.

11 live in houses around me and that doesn't include the feral toms that come around at mating time. The toms spray the bins, the car, the house doors .... One house has 4 cats and three dogs. At least the dogs cant get out
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: Maggi Young on December 01, 2014, 01:56:03 PM
but suspect a motion-activated water jet or similar is more socially acceptable.
Not to mention legal!
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: johnw on December 01, 2014, 02:14:10 PM
Dogs don't run free here anymore except in designated areas yet cats are free to do these sorts of things.  How are they getting in Mark?  Is it time for a good heavy metal screen outer door?

johnw -  +12c with a bit of sun
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: David Nicholson on December 01, 2014, 02:52:38 PM
My sympathies folks my garden suffers similarly.
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: mark smyth on December 01, 2014, 03:21:18 PM
How are they getting in Mark?  Is it time for a good heavy metal screen outer door?

Through the door because its left wide open for lots of ventilation. Closed now. The door hasn't been closed for years. I suppose it just takes one to discover what's inside. Last time I trapped a cat in the green house it smashed a pane of glass trying to get out. I was shouting and chasing it ...
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: brianw on December 01, 2014, 04:31:51 PM
I have always used a section of plastic coated mesh across the bottom half of the door when I am not there. Just drops in the hole when the door is open. Learnt my lesson when I first had the old greenhouse and gravel under the benches. Now have pheasants wandering around. Not sure how bad they are going to be, and it will not stop the occasional robin nesting, from past experience.
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: Maren on December 01, 2014, 05:49:23 PM
Brian, me too. I put 1cm square netting around the vents after I had to chase out 3 pheasants and you can imagine what they did to my pleione pots, carnage everywhere. >:(
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: Tony Willis on December 01, 2014, 06:30:50 PM
I got back from London on Friday to discover several lots of sh*t buried in my new peat area dedicated to my five year old shortias which I have raised from seed. The plants had been scooped out and tossed aside as the muck was being covered. The bed is now covered in unsightly netting.

Had them get into my greenhouses several times and use the sand plunge.
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: johnw on December 01, 2014, 07:58:44 PM
Why not go with hardware cloth on a secondary door and keep field mice out as well?

Never a good idea to alarm a cat unless it's pointed in the desired direction. 

johnw - +11c
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: brianw on December 01, 2014, 08:08:03 PM
Guess it depends on the greenhouse construction as to what is most convenient, or maybe the least inconvenient. Just remembered I have had blackbirds in a number of times. Bet it was for spaghnum moss now I think about it.
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: Matt T on December 01, 2014, 08:21:08 PM
Why not go with hardware cloth ...

I think folks in the UK would recognised this as welded wire mesh, such as Maren suggests.
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014/15
Post by: Neil on January 10, 2015, 03:20:15 PM
Himantoglossum robertianum 2 months earlier than the previous 2 years.  And a lovely scent to go with it.
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014/15
Post by: SteveC2 on January 10, 2015, 05:47:11 PM
Himantoglossum robertianum 2 months earlier than the previous 2 years.  And a lovely scent to go with it.
Glad I am not alone.  One of mine has been open since late November, and thanks to the cold still looks fine.  And the scent is much appreciated.  Its two sisters, genetically identical, grown in the same conditions, are still some weeks away from flowering.  Very strange.
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: Neil on January 10, 2015, 05:55:44 PM
and thanks to the cold still looks fine. 

My concern is it has only been above ground since the end of October is that long enough to produce a decent tuber for next year.  And regarding the cold, what is that?  Only had 4 frosts this winter so far
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: SteveC2 on January 10, 2015, 06:33:25 PM
Which would be two more than we had last year!  But what do you expect down on the riviera!

My experience, based on a whole three different clones, is that a flowering plant tends to make a smaller tuber for the next year, but a non-flowerer can double up, which is how I come to have a couple of clones that I have three of.  I really like Barlias, large, long flowering, scented, definitely worth growing.
And last year's seeds have germinated, and are doing well, so at some point down the toad I hope to have a few more!
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: Steve Garvie on February 22, 2015, 03:17:41 PM
My first Ophrys are now in flower:

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8600/16612496592_4b70e76a31_o.jpg)
Ophrys leochroma

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8597/16426715539_4a13b7efac_z.jpg)
Ophrys lutea

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8575/16425983890_45ee8b151b_z.jpg)
Ophrys ferrum-equinum

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8622/16612998035_abf048cf84_z.jpg)
Ophrys sp. (I bought this as a lab-raised seedling of O. incubacea from a German supplier. It isn't O.incubacea but I'm not sure what it is.).

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8645/16613309075_06dd609932_o.jpg)
Ophrys bombyliflora
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: Maren on February 24, 2015, 12:44:02 PM
Goodness, Steve, your photography is breathtaking - and the plants aren't bad either. ;) ;) :)
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: mark smyth on February 24, 2015, 04:58:07 PM
My first Ophrys are now in flower:
I bought this as a lab-raised seedling of O. incubacea from a German supplier. It isn't O.incubacea but I'm not sure what it is

wow fabulous!

I thought I was going to get away without any deaths this year. First one this morning  :'( and the one the cat crapped on is very sick
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: Yann on February 25, 2015, 07:05:45 AM
Steve do you light your orchids? I'm surprised they already bloomed.
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: Steve Garvie on February 25, 2015, 07:18:19 AM
No Yann.
They are in a slightly elevated south-facing greenhouse which they share with some South African bulbs. The pots are plunged in sand which contains heating cables which are set to come on when the temperature drops below 3C.

None of my Orchis or Barlia have opened their flowers yet and I still have more Ophrys which should flower in early to mid -March or later.
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: mark smyth on February 25, 2015, 08:27:03 AM
Orchis lactea is finished flowering for me. Others have spikes.

Like Steve mine are in a heated sand plunge. Mine get direct sun, when it shines, from mid February
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: Neil on February 25, 2015, 09:35:31 AM
I have had only one flowering so far this year, Himantaglossum roberticium, spikes are now starting to show on a lot of them. But my greenhouse is a lean to which is North facing and only sees the sun from Feb to Nov.  The lowest temperature in there this winter was 4C, when it went to -3C outside.  So no heating bills this year


 Steve the Ophrys bombiflora seeds you sent me last year are germinating well, thank you.
Title: Re: winter greens autumn/winter 2014
Post by: SteveC2 on February 25, 2015, 11:23:14 AM
Ophrys fusca, speculum, tenthredinifera and sphegodes flowering here for a couple of weeks now in a totally non insulated and therefore bright full sun greenhouse.  My plants got an early start due to cool August and as per last year, and despite the horror headlines  and forecasts in the press, we have not had much of a winter.  More frosts, but no sub zero days.
The Barlia which opened in November is finally going over.  Three months in flower is not bad!
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