Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Seedy Subjects! => Grow From Seed => Topic started by: Véronique Macrelle on June 21, 2024, 01:34:47 PM
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I want to collect the Codonopsis genus.
I've been sowing what I can find for several years, with varying degrees of success, often using seeds from the srgc exchange.
Emergence is often easy, but then getting them to develop is sometimes difficult over the long term.
Maybe that's because I don't have enough information about how they live.
This year I managed to get quite a few species
including this Codonopsis gracilis. It has beautiful foliage!
I only have one because most of the seeds were crushed in transit.
Does anyone have any information about it?
It's already 20 cm high and wide, so could it flower this year?
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This is a 3-year-old Codonopsis kawakami, grown in pots outside or in the greenhouse, depending on the season. I often have this problem of yellowing leaves, but I can't find the reason for it. Last year, it stopped its growth cycle after just 1 flower... this year I'm hoping to get a few seeds so I can grow several plants. Then I'll test it in the ground.
Many other species, climbing or not, easily get chlorosis... why? Too acid a soil?
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in order sur la photo :
Codonopsis ovata, Codonospis cardiophylla and Codonopsis obtusa...
they are similar, but with slight differences in the foliage. sown in March: can I expect them to flower this year?
C. obtusa is 1 specimen, and I'm always worried about getting to winter without seeds...
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I was particularly pleased to find Codonopsis rotundifolia seeds this year at the srgc exchange.
a successful sowing as I have about twenty seedlings.
I have already had this species flower, or at least a plant called Codonopsis rotundifolia var grandiflora.
It's really extra and its colour varies according to the individual, which I also like.
she's the one that got me interested in Codonopsis in general. I did a little post on it
https://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=18204.msg417310#msg417310 (https://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=18204.msg417310#msg417310)
I know that these plants will remain at the juvenile stage this year. I've put them in a large window box so that they can develop their "carrot" to the maximum.
a bit of chlorosis here too, at times...
the seedling on the bottom right is a companion plant, a seedling of Caiophora lateritia, sown in March: I'm testing it a bit everywhere because here again, I want to see it flower, but I don't know much about growing it.
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I have tried sowing Codonopsis subscaposa at least 3 times. I have kept the plants for a maximum of 2 years.
This species remains a mystery to me. I also have a bad habit of over-watering them.
This species is slow to grow. This year I've got better growth, perhaps because I sowed them at the end of March rather than in January (when we used to get our seeds earlier in Europe).
On the other hand, in my memory, they seemed to produce a basal rosette, whereas here they're clearly showing a stem... for an idea of size, they're in 5 cm pots (patience! :-\)
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Veronique,
Have you seen the website woodlandsplants.co.uk? Bob and Ann hold the national collection of codonopsis and have some very useful information on the website.
I have some problems growing codonopsis too - the biggest problem this year is the slugs eating the seedlings.
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Thank you Carolyne, I notice it has been redone. Unfortunately now the Brexit is preventing me from ordering it...
I've tackled the convovulacea group at least 5 times (starting from seeds), it's so small at first.
The small tubers often have trouble withstanding the winter, although now I've got a few plants from the previous year in bud.
I'm also starting to get the hang of sowing, and I've got bigger plants from seed this year (Codonopsis grey-wilsonii)
I can't wait to see that first flower! below Codonopsis forrestii:this is a plant from seed in its 3rd season. last year it finished growing before flowering...
I'm keeping them in the greenhouse for the time being, as my attempts to put them outside have been frustrated by slugs.
I also found a pot in which 2 tubers had lain dormant: healthy, but not growing; curious.
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That's it!
I finally see a flower of this very desirable Codonopsis.
While the label says Codonopsis forrestii, the purple ring seems to indicate a Codonopsis grey-wilsonii, according to Yuan-Hong's book on codo. The fluffy details of the flower are incredible: it's always a joy for me to use technology to observe plant textures up close.
I wonder if, with the best cultivation, you can get a flower the year you sow it...
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here is another flowering from the convolvulacea group (or Pseudocodon).
the seed label indicates Codonopsis forrestii: flower + blue, almost twice as small, the central ring is very dark (the camera changes the colour) and directly around the receptacle.
it also seems to close at night.
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my third plant in this group, labelled Codonopsis vinciflora is preparing a flower bud. This time, of course, it's a different species because the flower bud is different: the calyx is not fused around the corolla in bud
the leaves are also more toothed. Another week or 2 to see the flower in full bloom. Let's hope it doesn't wait until I'm away on holiday!
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the effort of the sower is rewarded by the first flowering, but also when his plants get bigger!
on Codonopsis kawakami, the green flowers in the shape of a lady's dress are becoming more and more numerous: incredible this year! I love these flowers
[Codonopsis pilosula[/i] will not be outdone: it is preparing an impressive number of flower buds!
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my C. grey-wilsonii suffers from premature dormancy, a problem I have every year, but a little later this year. I don't know if I'll get any seed.
First flowers of Codonopsis pilosula.
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You have a very nice codonopsis collection Véronique 8)
Here C. grey-wilsonii is still in full growth, perhaps due to our cool summer and regular rain.
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at the moment our summer is looking more like autumn here too.
Do you grow it outside in the ground, Ashley? Full shade or part shade?
I'm waiting until I have enough to test it.
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Most are outdoors in the ground, with roots in moist shade & stems mainly in sun, but these conditions may not necessary.
I keep a few 'back-up' plants in pots that also spend their summer outdoors in similar conditions.
All are from SRGC seed that germinated very well :)
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my last plant to flower this year from the Pseudocodon group: Codonopsis vinciflora or Pseudocodon vinciflorum. this is a first flowering for this species.
this plant was very slow to get going in spring, but is now perhaps showing more vigour. its flower buds do not have the sepals fused around the corolla
the flower stalks are thicker and longer, which means that the flower stretches upwards. there are no velvety hairs in the centre and no violet rings. it is a more intense violet-blue.
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perhaps it's interesting to put the 3 Pseudocodon side by side...
although I'm not really sure that the second and third (perhaps grey-wilsonii, after all) are really different.
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Véronique,
The Pseudocodon are interesting and beautiful. The inflorescences are quite different from most codonopsis.
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I’ve just been alerted to these posts by a friend and am only too happy to help another Codonopsis grower if I can. Firstly please refer to www.codonopsisplants.co.uk where, as Carolyn says, there is lots of helpful information on growing and identifying them.
Specifically, C.gracilis should be treated as a tender biennial and always collect seed if you can to ensure its survival. It is a wonderful plant and worth the effort.
You may be able to maintain C.kawakamii in the garden but here in the UK I also treat that as tender, although perennial.
The Pseudocodons can be a little tricky but there are four that are regularly grown and, once you know them, you’re well on the way. P.vinciflorus has smaller flowers with the distinctive calyx lobes as you have noted. It has the best colour of all of them. P.convolulaceus ssp forrestii is usually the last to flower with large paler flowers and a very dark centre. P.grey-wilsonii has a distinctive purple ring on the blue flower and the pure white form, P.grey-wilsonii Himal Snow, rarely has a purple ring. Certainly I’ve never seen one so your pale form is very interesting.
The seedlings of Cc ovata, cardiophylla and obtusa may flower next year and have almost certainly been grown from seed I sent in last year.
If you’d like to look at the website you can always contact me through that. I look forward to hearing from you further and good luck.
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Hello Bob,
delighted to chat with you...
I've looked at your site through and through ;D
it's superb.
Thank you also for sending your seeds to the CGRS last year: I really enjoyed it.
and for answering my questions.
the pale form of Pseudocodon is light blue, not white.
I have another (charming) form of probably Pseudocodon vinciflora (sepal not adhering to the button), even bluer than the first, smaller, 2 cm wide and above all with a more campanulate, less flattened shape: which gives it a tonic appearance. Its leaves are almost round).
I photographed it next to the paler Pseudocodon ()que vous estimez de quelle espèce ou sous-espèce?
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We’ve had a completely pale blue form of P.grey-wilsonii and tentatively named it Blue Ice but still waiting to see if it comes true from seed. Your pale one with purple ring is very nice though. Kit Grey-Wilson has told me that he’s seen completely white ones with a purple ring in the wild but not in cultivation. Like all Codonopsis and Pseudocodon, P.vinciflorus can be variable but all are lovely.
Don’t forget, you can always email me as I don’t always check the forum.
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Most of my Codonopsis grey-wilsonii seedlings have been resting, so I looked at the tubers produced in one of the more developed pots. I think I've done better than in other years: the tubers are bigger.
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in August, we had a peak of 42°C, which fortunately did not last long.
many Codonopsis unfortunately went into sudden dormancy: all the Pseudocodon, C.subscaposa, ovata, cardiophylla, obtusa, rotundifolia, gracilis...
However, some individuals have resisted, and remained beautiful and green: these are the ones that are entangled in other plants: C. lanceolata entwined with an Ipomaea, C. rotundifolia entwined with a Delphinium caucasicum, protected by its broad leaves and, I'm delighted to say, C. subscaposa, which remains green and thriving, shaded by the wiry foliage of the annual Gilia tricolor.
I think the association has done them a favour by providing more freshness at a critical moment, a question of atmosphere.
I'm posting photos of the large pot containing Gilia + Codonopsis subscaposa (still quite small). Then a photo of the state of C. subscaposa now, in full form and continuing to grow in the centre of the pot.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
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while some Codonopsis are completing their vegetative cycle, others are starting to flower, such as Codonopsis lanceolata. as it's a bit late, i don't think i'll have any mature seeds of this species for the exchange. However, I already know that I will be sending kawakami and pilosula this year..
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I'm thinking of installing different Codonopsis in my garden, where the soil is humus-rich and drains well, whereas here it's heavy and very mineral.
I've built, or rather asked my husband to build ;D, a raised bed from recycled planks.
and there you have it!
I now need to find more than 2 m3 of humus-rich soil...
which is complicated around here... even the potting soils bought in garden centres are of poor quality. i pull my hair out every year for seedlings.
on the other hand, I can already imagine all the little winter or spring tubers/bulbs that could accompany my Codonopsis. 8)
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I received some rare but old seeds (from 2015!): Codonopsis bomiensis seeds.
They will be sown in the spring but as soon as I received them, I wanted to do a viability test. I tested 10 seeds with a few special treatments to try and ‘wake them up’.
Result: 5 seeds out of 10 grew well.
A sixth germinated, but seems to be dwarfed, and will probably never produce a mature plant.
50% germination after 9 years in storage! I think that's an excellent result. ;D
the seedlings are growing so well that i feel obliged to pamper them under an artificial summer. but i'm not sure what to do next (a rest or not before the summer of 2025?).
as usual, some Violas have germinated at the same time (jumping seeds in the soil) but I've already found that they make good companion plants, especially for Codonospis which like a leafy environment (of course, climbers!) and also because they attract aphids to them (I still have spontaneous generations of aphids).