Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => Flowers and Foliage Now => Topic started by: fermi de Sousa on November 04, 2024, 11:11:44 AM
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November is the end of spring and we are hurtling towards summer.
There are still a lot of flowers coming before the garden goes into its "summer dormancy".
1) Tritonia crocata orange shades
2) Ornithogalum thyrsioides
3 & 4) Eremophila hygrophana
5) Herbertia lahue
cheers
fermi
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Harking back to the discussion with Robert in the October Thread, here are a couple of "Themids"
1 & 2) Dichelostemma volubile
3 & 4) Triteleia ixioides
cheers
fermi
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Hi Fermi,
Thank you for all the information.
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Here in California I am working on developing forms of Triteleia ixioides with enhanced deep maroon markings on the petals. This is a characteristic I enjoy immensely. Currently I am using both ssp. scabra and unifolia in these hybrids. They are such easy plants to please in the garden, tolerant of a fair degree of summertime irrigation and/or completely summertime xeric conditions.
While on the topic of plants that thrive where summers are extremely hot and dry, here are a few other plants I am working with.
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This is Delphinium patens ssp. patens growing in our Sacramento garden. This low elevation California native goes completely dormant during the summer. It is a xeric species that is not bothered by extreme summertime heat or drought. The forms that I grow bloom into the late spring, extending our garden’s bloom period before the garden goes into its summer dormancy.
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The flowers of the species range in color from light lavender-pink through deep lavender-blue. Currently, I am working on my second generation of hybrids. I have selections that persist and bloom consistently each season in our Sacramento garden. Extending the color range is another goal.
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Pictured is Delphinium hansenii ssp. hansenii blooming in our Sacramento garden. It is another xeric low elevation species.
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My favorite xeric, low elevation species is Delphinium gracilentum. This species also has an extended range of flower colors.
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Yet another local xeric species I am working with is Allium campanulatum. Here in our Sacramento garden the flowers tend to be washed-out pale pink, however through selection I am hoping to find forms that will bloom consistently with deeper pink flowers in our low elevation garden.
All these plants thrive in wintertime cool/moist – summertime extremely hot/dry climates. They seem like they would be good additions to gardens in climates like yours. Likely gardeners in your area already grow these species, however if not, these species might be worth considering.
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Hi Robert,
those delphiniums are something else I might try someday.
This Brodiaea came up as a volunteer - I wonder if it's Brodiaea elegans?
cheers
fermi
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Hi Fermi,
The plant pictured “looks” like Brodiaea elegans. Making a definitive identification online is questionable. I would feel much more comfortable looking at the plant in your garden. If you have a large collection of Brodiaea species in your garden, hybrids are possible. In addition, seeds offered in seed exchanges can be misidentified, mislabeled, or be unintended hybrids. Such things occur much more frequently than we might want to believe. If getting a positive ID is important to you, my suggestion is to checkout the Calflora website (calflora.org). There are links to Jepson eFlora (ucjeps.berkeley.edu) where you can find dichotomous keys, as well as a detailed botanical description of each taxon.
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Having written everything above pictured is a close up photograph of Brodiaea elegans ssp. elegans growing in its native habitat in El Dorado County, California. This photograph might be helpful for identification of the plant in your garden.
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Pictured is another scene of Brodiaea elegans ssp. elegans in its native habitat in El Dorado County, California. It is one of the last Brodiaea species to bloom in our area each season. Brodiaea elegans grows abundantly on our El Dorado County farm property. It is mostly a low elevation species, however I have studied, in detail, a population that is found at an elevation of 5,125 feet (1,562 meters) in El Dorado County, California. This is well above the usual altitude range for this species.
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Pictured above is Brodiaea elegans ssp. elegans in our Sacramento garden. If the species is well placed in the garden it can be quite effective in the landscape, harmonizing with other species, and making an attractive, naturalistic display. I have a number of interesting hybrids coming along, such as Brodiaea elegans x terrestris, as well as others. Brodiaea minor is another species I grow in our garden and enjoy greatly. It is a much more diminutive species and can be used in the garden in different ways.
I will be curious to find out what you discover about your seedling plant. I am always interested in how the Themidaceae perform in other gardens. May you have good fortune.
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Hi Fermi,
The plant pictured “looks” like Brodiaea elegans. Making a definitive identification online is questionable. I would feel much more comfortable looking at the plant in your garden. If you have a large collection of Brodiaea species in your garden, hybrids are possible.
Hi Robert,
I suspect this is a hybrid between Brodiaea elegans and possibly B. coronaria which I also grow in pots.
Last week I visited a friend who lives just 25 km away and she can grow many cool climate plants I have no hope of growing here.
Here is her Meconopsis horridula and Roscoea humeana (or R. cautleyoides?)
cheers
fetmi
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Wow... your friend's Meconopsis horridula is gorgeous Fermi. I've tried it several times, but it failed at germination. How big (tall) is this M. horridula on your friend?
Thanks for showing me. A great pleasure here... at 4 Celsius, fog and rain...😉
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Hi Fermi,
25 km distance from your home and your friend can grow Meconopsis! This is a tremendous temperature gradient. What is going on geographically that there is such a temperature gradient? A barrier of mountains or hills, a large elevation difference, proximity to the ocean, or something else?
Below are a few plants gardeners in your summertime hot, dry climate are likely already familiar with, as they thrive with such climatic conditions.
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This seedling of Eriogonum ursinum var. ursinum is displaying some nice autumn leaf coloration. I will be planting this seedling in our cinder-block garden where the drainage is excellent. As I grow more seedlings of this species I will trial them in our loam soil. Many of our California native Eriogonum species grow just fine in our loamy soil without grit for additional soil drainage.
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Pictured are two Eriogonum incanum seedlings. This species exhibits a great deal of genetic variability. I especially value tight growing plants with intensely silvery foliage. The plant at the bottom of the photograph exhibits this silvery foliage characteristic.
This species needs very quick drainage to do well. I will be planting these seedlings in our cinder-block garden too.
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Eriogonum prattenianum var. prattenianum is another species that exhibits a great deal of genetic variability. I especially enjoy the prostrate, silvery foliaged variations of this species. Plants that form dense buns are desirable too, as many in the wild can be quite sparse.
The seeds were gathered in an intensely hot, sunny, rocky area with many andesite boulders. These too will be grown in our cinder-block garden until I have more plants to trial in our loam soil.
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Pictured are second-generation seedlings of Penstemon azureus var. angustissimus. This species performs extremely well in our Sacramento garden. The goal here is to bring out the best qualities in this outstanding species that also performs well in summertime hot/dry climates.
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This year’s crop of California native annuals is beginning to germinate. Some species benefit from fire/smoke treatment to enhance germination. Fire/smoke is not always necessary for germination. I have been developing lines that have a high germination rate without fire/smoke treatment. This year I have over 50% germination with Chaenactis artemisifolia. Eucrypta chrysanthemifolia var. chrysanthemifolia is another species that fire/smoke can improve germination I am working with. Being able to skip the fire/smoke treatment makes growing these species from seed much easier.
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Hi Fermi,
25 km distance from your home and your friend can grow Meconopsis! This is a tremendous temperature gradient. What is going on geographically that there is such a temperature gradient? A barrier of mountains or hills, a large elevation difference, proximity to the ocean, or something else?
Hi Robert,
On the east coast of Australia is a line of mountains called "The Great Dividing Range" and the southern "tail-end" of it is Mount Macedon which is about 60km south of us. We are inland of the Dividing Range so weather that affects the east coast doesn't always affect us.
My friend lives in Kyneton which is at 520m above sea level (ASL) compared to Redesdale which is 290m ASL. Kyneton is more affected by Mount Macedon than we are.
I hope that explains a bit of the difference between our gardens - she's also a more experienced, diligent and capable gardener than I am!
cheers
fermi
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Here are a few more flowers from earlier in November:
1) Clematis integrifolia
2) Calochortus uniflorus
3) Ixia rapunculoides hybrid
4) Teucrium ex Purple Robe
5) close up
cheers
fermi
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This is an amsonia grown from seed as A. jonesii but I'm not sure if it's true or maybe a hybrid,
cheers
fermi
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The sole Gilia capitata which has appeared this year,
cheers
fermi
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1) This Moraea bicapitata still has a few flowers opening even though most have gone to seed and died down.
2) An unnamed cactus - maybe a rebutia?
3) When I saw this red beetle on a lilium, I nearly had a meltdown until I realised it was a ladybird and not a lily-beetle!
4) Another moraea - M. gracilenta - I was worried that this had died out as I hadn't seen it for a few years, but here it is blooming amongst the weeds in the rock garden!
cheers
fermi
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Hi Robert,
On the east coast of Australia is a line of mountains called "The Great Dividing Range" and the southern "tail-end" of it is Mount Macedon which is about 60km south of us. We are inland of the Dividing Range so weather that affects the east coast doesn't always affect us.
My friend lives in Kyneton which is at 520m above sea level (ASL) compared to Redesdale which is 290m ASL. Kyneton is more affected by Mount Macedon than we are.
I hope that explains a bit of the difference between our gardens - she's also a more experienced, diligent and capable gardener than I am!
cheers
fermi
Hi Fermi,
Thank you for your climatic and geographic information. The climatic conditions in specific areas of Australia are still an enigma to me, however your geographic information is helpful.
During the 1980’s I attempted to grow some Meconopsis from seed up at our Placerville farm. They were just some generic hybrids. I managed to bring one struggling seedling to bloom. It produced one very pale blue flower and then promptly died. Climatic conditions here appear to be very different from your area in Australia. Our farm is located at an elevation of ~ 455 meters. With the climatic changes that have taken place during the last 40-50 years growing Meconopsis at our Placerville farm is completely impossible. In our region I would have to be at an elevation of 2,000 meters before climatic conditions would make the cultivation of Meconopsis possible. This region is ~ 60 km east of our Placerville farm in the Sierra Nevada Mountains.
Most of our native bulbs including most (but not all) of our Calochortus species are still dormant. I am hoping that the first set of Calochortus hybrids bloom this coming season. They are based partly on a line of Calochortus luteus originally from the Deer Creek Hills where the Sacramento Valley meets the Sierra Nevada foothills. This is still a botanically rich area. Brodiaea coronaria can be found in these habitats with annuals such Escscholzia lobbii. Vernal pools are common and represent a very specific habitat with specific plant species associated with them. It is in these vernal pool habitats where Brodiaea nana is found. This species has similarities to Brodiaea minor, however they are quite distinct and occupy completely different habitats. Brodiaea minor, in our area, is almost always found growing on Serpentine or Gabbro where there is very little competition from other species, especially non-native invasive grasses. Brodiaea minor is frequently seen with Lewisia rediviva var. rediviva as well as Eriogonum nudum var. nudum and the attractive spring annual Platystemon californicus.
I am still working on my new line of Gilia capitata with an extended blooming cycle into the late summer. This line is based on ssp. mediomontana and pedomontana, both of which are commonly found in our region. Progress is slow. It will take time until I am satisfied with the results.
Great to see so many fine plants. Thank you for sharing.
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2) An unnamed cactus - maybe a rebutia?
For sure a Rebutia.
Numerous hybrids are available today, but the usual guess at species would be something like muscula, but it would be a brave individual to attach any identity to any Rebutia beyond what they receive it as.
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Hi Robert,
After reading Graham Ware's article on Brodieas in the latest IRG, I checked BICON for seed allowed and found a huge number of the species he mentioned (some I'd not heard of before) are ALLOWED! I'm hoping that the donors for NARGS had a good harvesting season and more will be on this year's Seedex. The Gilia in flower is descended from some I grew from seed from you which I was not able to establish in the open garden but which has persisted (for now) among the potted plants.
Hi Vinny,
thank you for confirming the ID of the Rebutia - I'm sure it was picked up at a market or from a nursery labelled as "cactus" only.
Last few for November:
Last weekend we had a "rain event" and so by mid-week we had a response from the rain-lilies - sadly in the weediest parts of the garden so no amount of cropping can exclude them!
1 & 2 ) Habranthus tubispathus var roseus
3) Habranthus tubispathus
4) A Cooperia, I think
cheers
fermi
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Hi Robert,
After reading Graham Ware's article on Brodieas in the latest IRG, I checked BICON for seed allowed and found a huge number of the species he mentioned (some I'd not heard of before) are ALLOWED! I'm hoping that the donors for NARGS had a good harvesting season and more will be on this year's Seedex.
Hi Fermi,
This is great news! Your experiences with a wide array of Themidaeae species will likely be of interest to many gardeners. My intent is to start an open ended thread on Themidaeae on this Forum. Hopefully you can share your ongoing experiences with these species in this thread.
I approach Themidaeae (and many other plant species) from a completely different perspective. I enjoy exploring the vast diversity found within each species from the perspective of environmental plant physiology and genetics. For example, how transcription factors respond to environmental cues to regulate gene expression is a topic I plan to discuss as it applies to each Themidaeae species. Environmental forcing influences epigenetic expression, the creation of ecotypes, and rapid adaptive evolution in ways that can have horticultural significance. Somatic mutations, meiotic mutations, as well as unexpected hybrids frequently occur in nature. These too can have horticultural significance.
It is hard to believe that 2025 will mark the 50th year since I embarked on this journey with California native plants. During 1975, I remember taking an introductory college class on Native Plant Identification. One field trip was to the Sweetwater Creek region. Years before my girl friend and I spent a great deal of time in this area. I knew very little about native plants at this time. I am so indebted to the many mentors I encountered along this path. It has been a very tackful (as in sailing) journey with many setbacks and discouragement. I am so grateful that Mr. Tri Thong Dang accepted me as a student. When I felt I was not making any progress he would always encourage me by telling me, “It is when you feel that you are not progressing, this is the time when the greatest progress is being made. Keep persisting.”
Hopefully the views and experiences of plant collectors and other perspectives can be discussed on the Themidaceae thread. This is my hope.
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Fermi, it´s always amazing that You can grow so many different plants in Your garden! Not what I expected from a garden in Australia, really. It´s especially fun to see the pink form of Habranthus tubispathus growing in a border, where it looks so much at home. Unfortunately a plant I can grow only in pots (the orange form).
Robert, to see Broedia elegans growing in great numbers in the wild is a very impressing sight! Your selection of Triteleia ixioides looks really stunning, and these delphiniums are completely new to me. Most delphiniums are difficult to grow here due to the slugs, but Delphinium tricorne grew in my garden unharmed for several years.
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Hi Mariette,
Our native Delphinium species have never been easy for me to cultivate. There have been many failures, however I now have a methodology that seems to work well for me.
I have over 30 years of botanical field notes that I am currently entering into a computer program in a useful format. I have been working on this for a number of years now and still have a long way to go. Even with an incomplete computer listing I am getting results. Sorting and filtering data, for example location, elevation, phenology, population size, habitat, soil type, seasonal soil moisture, etc. is useful in pinpointing seed sources that will produce good results in our Sacramento garden. All this data can be cross referenced with my own climatic data sets for each life zone from the Central Valley floor to the crest of the Crystal Range and the east side of the Sierra Nevada Mountains. From this data I am getting a good idea how specific plant species and ecosystems respond to various environmental variables. This provides great clues on how to cultivate difficult species and the possible genetic capabilities of specific species. This process may not be for everyone, however for me it is very enjoyable and seems to work. I guess this is an expression of my authentic self – I have been keeping notes and gathering data for 57 years now. I have always enjoyed this just for the sake of doing it.
The current form of Delphinium patens ssp. patens that we grow in our garden came from Kanaka Valley, El Dorado County, California at an elevation of 1,013 feet (309 meters). The plants were growing in an open grassland habitat on ultramafic gabbro based soil that is vernally mesic – summer xeric. Needless to say I also have a great deal of climatic data for this area.
I gathered seeds from this population on 8 June 2017, RMB 835. From this batch of seed many seeds germinated, however only a dozen or so plants survived to the next season. The surviving plants have bloomed consistently each year and have great vigor relative to the species. Second generation plants will be blooming this spring. All the second generation seedlings are vigorous and grew well last season before going dormant. With cooler weather and the autumn rains they have reemerged from the ground and are growing well. I definitely have my “foot in the door” with this species. I consider this to be a great success considering past attempts to cultivate this species for more than a year or two have failed. As an added bonus, by using my data effectively I am beginning to have success cultivating our native Viola species as well as other challenging species. Our native Viola species tend to be extremely difficult to cultivate. There are still challenges to overcome; however progress is being made.
Fermi might also be interested to know that I have considerable data for Salvia sonomensis. For example, where and when fruit is ripe from specific populations, as well as germinations rates. Sorting and filtering with the computer is quick and easy. Currently I only have limited data entered into the computer, however as more data is entered I will have a good idea when and where fruit is ripening for each population and the specific characteristics for each population. This does increase the likelihood of success with a true to name species.
Anyway, this is how I enjoy doing things and it seems to work well for me. May the 2025 gardening season bring you great success and pleasure despite unfavorable weather and legions of slugs. :)
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Hi Mariette,
Thanks. I'm always amazed what will grow here as well! Mostly without intervention on my part ;D
Here are a few more things from my friend's garden in Kyneton:
1) Campanula calaminthifolia
2) Edraianthus horvatii
3) Gentiana wilsonii
cheers
fermi