Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Specific Families and Genera => Pleione and Orchidaceae => Topic started by: Paul T on March 29, 2009, 09:42:12 AM
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Howdy All,
I thought there may have already been a topic for these, but if there is I am missing it. ::) If there is then feel free to combine this with the other one.
Flowering now for me as the first Aussie terrestrial to flower for 2009 is.....
Please click on the pic to enlarge.
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Eriochilus cuculata. A delightful little orchid with flowers maybe 1.5cm tall. There are only a couple of flowers per stem, with a leaf or two at ground level. Very cute, and a first flowering for me.
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A real cutie Paul, I like the small orchids. :)
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Aussie orchids are so gorgeous, interesting, bizarre, varied .... ! ::)
Anyway, you're cheating ! You are Aussie ! ;D 8)
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Nice work Paul. How have you grown it ?
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Craig,
In a pot in a shadehouse for a bit of protection. Kept pretty dry over summer, then comes straight out of dormancy into flower. I was incorrect in my description in the original posting too.... there are no leaves. There is just a stem with flowers that emerges straight from the ground. The leaves obviously follow later on. I'm including a pic of the pot, showing the 2 flower stems. I've used the garage wall as a background just to contrast, so no the plant is not 6 foot tall like it would have to be to be that many bricks high! ;) The taller of the two stems is maybe 9 or 10 inches tall.
Enjoy.
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;D
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Howdy All,
These aren't in my own garden, but rather in a friend's garden a few hours north of here. The Acianthis fornicatus grows wild in his yard and surrounding bush, while the Corybas pruinosus is in a pot in his shadehouse. The Acianthis is is about 20cm tall, while the Corybas wouldn't even be 3cm tall. Very cute. ;)
31-12-09 - Changed Corybas species name to correct spelling. Name on the photograph remains incorrect, but this way the search function can work on the correct name
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Wow! Look at the leaf surface on the Corybas! Extraordinary. :o
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Nice pics of interesting plant Mr T.
Hope there are more ::)
Joakim
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Thanks for posting those Paul, my appetite is wetted and I hope, like Joakim, that you will have more in store for us!?
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Not at the moment unfortunately. None of my Aussie terrestrials have buds as yet, although all are up and running already. Hopefully I should have lots within the next few months.
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Paul ,do you grow Thelymitra"s too ?. Any advice on these.
Eric
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Eric,
Apparently they're supposed to be hard to grow (or so I have heard and read), but no-one has told mine that they shouldn't do as well as they do. ;D I am treating mine exactly the same as my Pterostylis, in a shadehouse in my climate, and mostly dry over summer. I am not sure mine are going to flower this year as I didn't get a chance to repot them, but still too early to know. Lots of offsets formed by the look of the assorted smaller leaves coming up in the pots around the larger original. If mine never find out that they're supposed to be difficult I will be very happy. ;D
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hello Eric and Paul, just to add about my observations of the local populations that grow near by. These are in NSW Bluemountains.
Thelymitra grow in a very sandy free drain soil (derived from sandstone with quarts and iron stone) with some leaf litter on top and with very little humus. They also rely on a mycrorrhizal association and without it I dont think they will grow if at all. The orchids are generally found in an open woodlands in Eucalypt forest where the light is broken up. Temps are from 42c to -10c, these are the local ones. The Western Australian ones tolerate the heat and drought alot more longer and I suspect are very difficult to grow in cultivation as they cannot withstand the humidity or having moisture at the wrong time of year. These are more colourful in reds, oranges and pinks and the NSW ones are mostly blue.
Being a sun orchid they open up when the sun is out and close at night and dont bother to open up if its raining.
Most Thyelymitra species are on the rare and endanger list and some species are extinct from over picking and digging. I dont know of any commercial nursery selling Thelymitra but I would be interested if Paul knows of any and they would likely have to be flask grown. There are local wild plant rescues nurserys that rescue native plants from the bulldozer and they do sell our local native orchids.
Hope this helps
Cheers
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Stephen,
Les Nesbitt does sell some Thelymitra, but I have no idea whether flask grown or divisions. I know that some of his stuff he grows from seed (and therefore flask) but no idea of the Thelymitra. Most of mine came from trading with people. What is your local species?
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Hi Paul,
will have to look up Les Nesbitt.
The local species is Thelymitra ixioides,dotted sun-orchid typically found in the open Eucalypt forests and Thelymitra venosa, the veined sun-orchid found in wet habitats, hanging swamps and bogs which is very unusual for this genus.
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Those aren't ones that I grow. I grow T. pauciflora, T. nuda and another one I am not sure of the name of 100%. Actually, I think I grow 4 but I can't recall the other one now.
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Hi Paul and Steve
Many thanks for the info on Thelymitra. Sure this will help. :)
I have not tried these yet which is the reason I asked. I have just ordered Nuda and I might order more later. Several suppliers in the UK are selling these now, both species and hybrids ,although I understand one lost his stock during the past cold winter. :'(
Eric
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cool stuff here, for sure! hope to see more...
dry growing orchids are very interesting to me, as these are some that might fit in with a cactus and succulent collection!
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Stephen,
If you'd like to send me your address, I can send you a few T. pauciflora from the garden. There's a largish colony nearby, so I get seedlings popping up here and there. It would be nice to send them somewhere the flowers have a chance of opening.
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Howdy All,
I thought there may have already been a topic for these, but if there is I am missing it. ::) If there is then feel free to combine this with the other one.
Flowering now for me as the first Aussie terrestrial to flower for 2009 is.....
Eriochilus cuculata. A delightful little orchid with flowers maybe 1.5cm tall. There are only a couple of flowers per stem, with a leaf or two at ground level. Very cute, and a first flowering for me.
Paul, congratulations on you lovely little orchid - I know rather late in catching up but am looking forward to hearing more about these dry growing terrestrials and seeing more photos.
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Thank you for starting this thread Paul. I adore the Australian native orchids and my first 'First' prize in the open section an SRGC show was for a Pterostylis. It got an RHS CCC too!
Just to encourage anyone in the UK thinking about growing these plants: I find them far easier than the european native orchids such as Ophrys. I grow them under frost-free glass in a mix of 80% perlite & 20% leafmould, though this changes occasionally as I experiment. Here are some Thelymitra flowers from this year:
A lovely hybrid between T nuda and T crinita - those flowers are 7cm across on a stem of 45cm high.
T 'Sleeping Beauty' which has a beautiful scent of roses.
Another blue hybrid involving T cyanea
T cyanea proper
A mauve coloured hybrid whose name temporarily escapes me...
D.
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Darren,
Some lovely varieties in there. I only have a few Thelymitras, all above ground and I think starting to bud at the moment. Lots of Pterostylis and a couple of Diuris in flower here at the moment already, with more on the way. 8)
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Lovely photos Darren, thanks for posting, I wish i could smell your T 'Sleeping Beauty' 8)
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Lovely photos Darren.
I have my first Thelymitra (Nuda) showing now and intend to purchase more if these do well for me.
Eric
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Very tempting, Darren
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How easy are they, Darren?
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Howdy All,
A couple of the Aussie terrestrials I have in flower at the moment.....
Pterostylis boormanii is rather different for a greenhood. I just love the details in the flower. Each flower is a bit over 2cm top to bottom.
Pterostylis mutica reminds me a lot of the Microtis unifolia when in flower, except this has a rosette of leaves at the bottom instead of that long tubular leaf on the Microtis. Perfect little hooded flowers though. 8) The flowers are tiny, stacked one on top of the other up the stem, spiralling around the stem a little.
Please click on the pic for a larger version.
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boormanii is very nice
A member of the AGS Ulster group has, by accident, grown Pterostylis outside. When moving house they were left outside
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Mark,
Some of them should be fine, providing they have a bit of overhead tree cover I would imagine. We have wild species that grow in bushland around here.
I forgot to post another orchid in the previous posting..... Arachnorchis tencullata is one of the spider orchids. Only just recently got it from a friend and I am stoked. Stem is a bit snakey and it was very difficult to get it in a position where I could photograph the flower properly. I should try again one of these days while the flower is still on there. Very, very cool! ;D The flower is about 3cm wide.
Please click on the pic for a larger version.
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My first flowering of Pterostylis Obtusa.
Eric
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Arachnorchis tencullata
Wow, I love it, Paul, very, very, very cool 8)
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Nice, Eric.
Thanks Robin. 8)
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Aranorchis tencullata, stunning Paul, very well flowered plant, no wonder you are stoked!
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THanks Chris,
Now I just hope I can keep it alive successfully and have it flower again next year! ::)
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Always the trick,
I once had Liparis kumokiri, flowered it two years in a row, third year the heater gave out in winter and it got frozen solid along with a proportion of my med orchids! :'(
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Paul - that spider orchid is stunning!
Mark - I find Thelymitra do well - Sleeping Beauty is a good one to start with as it has all the attributes: Pretty, scented and it increases quite quickly vegetatively. The blue ones are slower and lack scent but have bigger flowers and can be a stunning sky blue to rival Tecophilea. I actually find them easier than Pterostylis/Diplodium nowadays, either because they like the sunnier & drier position of the greenhouse in this garden or because my stocks of the latter are compromised (virus?). I tend to think it is the former as obtaining new stock has not really helped. That said - I can still just about manage Corybas despite it wanting shady/humid conditions.
I could really use a separate shade house... ::)
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Oops - that last sentence was spotted by the missus who has just e-mailed to ask where I intend siting said structure. I was only teasing, love, honest.... ;)
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Oops - that last sentence was spotted by the missus who has just e-mailed to ask where I intend siting said structure. I was only teasing, love, honest.... ;)
Darren
We all know your not. ;D ;D ;D
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Darren,
I'm much luckier than you..... my missus doesn't read these pages. ;D ;D ;)
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Howdy All,
A few of the Aussie native terrestrial orchids on our show table at last night's (so all photographed with a flash) local Orchid Society meeting.....
Diuris sp. aff alba (one of the pink version of the Donkey Orchid)
Jonesiopsis filamentosa has an amazing head of these fine almost chocolatey coloured flowers.
Prasophyllum calicola is tiny, each of these flowers only a few mm wide and a horror to try to photograph. :-[
And lastly the Bird Orchid, or Plumatichilos turfosus, and you can see where it gets it's name from. Absolutely amazing plant!! :o
Please click on the picture for a larger version.
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So intriguing, almost alive, and I thought of a hummingbird - is there another bird likeness you Aussies think of Paul?
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Robin,
Despite us not having hummingbirds here.... I still think of hummingbirds whenever I see it. I think partially that is the absence of any visible wings, which is effectively what you see with hummingbirds anyway. I'll never forget the one time I have seen a real live hummingbird.... in this tiny enclosure at the Honalulu Zoo when we were in Hawaii for our honeymoon 13 years ago. Tiny little thing, but I can still picture it (more or less). Would love to see hummingbirds again. I've always been fascinated by them on documentaries.
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Wonderful Paul. The pink/purple Diuris species seem impossible to obtain here unfortunately. Is that Plumatichilos what used to be one of the Rufa group Pterostylis? I'm rapidly losing track of the nomenclature since letting my ANOS membership lapse!
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David Attenborough is my source of enjoyment of so many species I've not yet seen in real life - hummingbirds are one such; the nearest I get is the hummingbird moth which entrances me in the same way as it visits flowers in my rockery - thanks for you thoughts Paul
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Darren,
Quite possibly. The original Pterostylis is I think about 6 different genus now, os I would imagine it was a Pt at one point. ;D I have a pot here of the same species of Diuris, just coming into bud. Mine is outside rather than in a shadehouse, so it's flowers will be nowhere near as tall or elegant as those.
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Howdy All,
Another couple of pics of Arachnorchis tentacullata, although apparently there are a number of species masquerading under this name so it may not be correctly IDed. A lot of similarities between a lot of the species. ::) Still in flower here though, so the flowers do last well too.
Also Pterostylis baptistii 'Gosford', with it's massive flowers compared to so many of the genus, Pterostylis Cutie 'Harold's Pride', and Pterostylis nutans variegata (including a pic showing the leaf variegation).
Enjoy.
Please click on the pics for a larger version.
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Whoops, forgot the Prasophyllum australe.... small flowers up the stem, each only a bit over a cm from top to bottom. Whole plant is currently about 45cm tall, but can be taller than that as far as I know.
Please click on the pics for a larger version.
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Super pics, Paul, showing the flowering habit on the stem, thanks :)
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Paul T
Amazing plants, never seen anything like these before 8). Love Pterostylis Gosford.
Angie :)
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Glad you're both enjoying them! 8)
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the pterostylis are fantastic my obtusa and truncata are sending spikes up now can't wait
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can i ask when my pterostylis truncata and obtusa flower will this tuber produce new tubers like the non flowering growths and once flowered will it then produce a new rosette or is that it.This is my first year with them.
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Davey,
I think that the tubers of some species at least remain from year to year, producing offsets on new droppers (sort of like runners, but not quite the same thing). These offsets are often full flowering size the next year. I don't know for your two species in particular, but I think that for most they either keep their original tuber or replace it yearly. The flowering tuber itself shouldn't die out after flowering, which I think is what you're asking. Either way (even if it did die after flowering) you should have more flowering tubers next year, they don't seem to take more than a season to build up to flowering size. You'll likely get a few sizes of offsets though, so there are always some flowering and others that aren't..... well in my conditions anyway. That a help?
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You are troubled by lack of a proper leaf rosette on the flowering shoots Davey? I think obtusa might produce a leaf rosette separate to the flower shoot (as opposed to , say, curta which flowers from the centre of the leaf rosette). I haven't excavated to look. Some species may not produce a leaf rosette as well as a flower shoot. As Paul rightly says - it doesn't really matter, either way you will get tubers for next year and probably a few little offsets too. There is a rather good explanation of the varying growth types in this Genus in one of my books and I can look it up but I really don't think you need to worry. Just relax and enjoy the flowers!
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thank you for that Paul and Darren you have put my mind to rest cheers
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can i ask when my pterostylis truncata and obtusa flower will this tuber produce new tubers like the non flowering growths and once flowered will it then produce a new rosette or is that it.This is my first year with them.
Dave both of these in flower now.
Eric
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cheers for that Eric they are stunning mine are a bit behind yours but now i cant wait for them to flower.
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Lovely, Eric. Both are very nice. I'm amazed at how long some of the flowers are lasting here this year, but we've had a week of heat and things are going off pretty quickly now.
Now of course the Thelymitra are starting to flower, and a couple of late Diuris spikes on D. aff. alba. Also one of my "weeds" in some of my pots.... Microtis unifolia has opened it's flowers this week. Pops up in all sorts of places.
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Howdy All,
My "weed" I mentioned.... Microtis unifolia. Tiny little flowers, all green on green and very easy to miss. I get them appearing in pots all over the place. Not LOTS of them, but they do appear here and there. 8)
Please click on the pic for a larger version.
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You have done a great job of photographing that Paul. It is an awkward little thing to photograph isn't it? . It doesn't do too well for me, and I only get flowers occasionally. Though it does set seed I don't get any volunteer seedlings either. :(
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Paul, could you tell us about the compost you use for these orchids please? I'm always after ideas!
The Victoria group of the ANOS produced a great little book some years ago on growing Australian native orchids - do you follow this with your cultivation? The terrestrial compost they suggest seemed a bit complicated to me.
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Darren,
Yep, it isn't an easy one to photograph. ;D I think mine regularly set seed. Mine came in naturally from outside somewhere originally, and I saw them regularly in client's garden when I used to run a garden maintenance business as well. They multiply quite healthily vegetatively as well I find. I haven't actually set up a pot of them for display purposes or anything, but probably should one year as I think they could be rather nice in a mass.
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Darren,
I buy a commercial "native" potting mix (i.e low phosphorus), nothing special at all and available in bags at most nurseries. I don't do anything special for them at all. I am unsure whether the phosphorus could be a problem at all to them (I don't think so to be honest) but I play it safe by using the native mix. When potting I give them a bit of pelletised chicken manure and a soil wetting agent to stop the mix becoming hydrophobic..... which is exactly what I do with all my bulbs, except with those I add a bulb food in there as well. I basically treat them just like I do my other potted plants.
I also realise that probably isn't a lot of help to you. I think the main thing is to have good drainage, and good light. I grow mine in a shade house, but on the top shelf so that they get plenty of sun. They get repotted the years I get around to it, often about the time I notice leaves starting to appear and I realise that I haven't gotten to it (always much easier at this point to find the tubers as well, because they all have shoots on them and are clearly visible). I have to repot everything this coming year as I have shoots coming out of the drainage holes at the bottom of pots all over the place. :o
Is any of that info useful?
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Yes Paul, it is useful actually. I'm pretty sure I underfeed mine and your use of pelleted chicken manure is interesting. I've not tried using anything like that with mine (they get dilute liquid feed when I remember). I may give it a whirl next year thanks.
I think bird manure is so high in phosphorus that you must be correct about the orchids not minding it too. Would you add chicken manure to non-orchids that really don't like phosphorus - such as the Proteacea, if you grow them? I think my own attempts to grow Proteas in pots failed because I was too scared to feed them!
I know what you mean about repotting too. I can't leave it for too long though. The compost I use for these plants makes a great seed compost for every weed in the vicinity. Once it gets to the point where I can't tell what is a thelymitra leaf and what is grass then I am forced to do the whole collection at once otherwise the grass seeds in from the untouched pots and I'm back to square one. :)
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;D ;D
The pelletised chicken manure is safe for low phosphorus plants. Obviously enough there needs to be a level of care using it.... I'm sure they'd die if you planted them into straight pellets. ;) Certianly things like my Proteaceae will get the pellets when repotting, along with a low phosphorus granular slow release fertiliser.
Having my native terrestrial orchids in the shadehouse at least helps keep some of the main seeds out. Even in the sunshine at the top of the shadehouse I still get lots of moss in winter, but it soon dies off again in summer when the moisture levels are cut right down.
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Mine are in the greenhouse too Paul but there are always grasses around in other pots or usually in the sand plunge to provide seeds. I am fairly convinced that they arrive in poorly sterilised loam based compost. They do die off in summer but seedlings reappear at the first sign of moisture in autumn. Usually not too many but they build up over a couple of years and I can't keep up with weeding them out..
I tried to fool them one year by watering and then waiting until the seeds germinated before going over everything lightly with a hot-air paint stripping gun before the bulb/orchid shoots appeared. Worked for a while :-\
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heres my P.truncata
im sorry about the size but haven't worked out yet how to do the thumbnail thing
edited by maggi to add photo as thumbnail
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click the thmbnail to enlarge
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Nice one Davey. Fascinating little plants aren't they? And the flowers last for several weeks too!
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Darren they are fantastic its the first Pterostylis that i have flowered and i am hooked,are they all fairly straight forward to grow or is there tricky ones i should wait until i've gained enough experiance with the easy ones first?
Cheers Maggi for that i will suss out how to thumbnail.
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SOme of my Pterostylis has started to flower. As previously proven: I'm a lousy photographer.
Pterostylis obtusa:
(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p250/larsdane/Pterostylisobtusa.jpg)
Pterostylis truncata:
(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p250/larsdane/Pterostylistruncata.jpg)
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Lars,
I find the Pterostylis are particularly hard to photograph well, regardless of how good or bad a photographer you are. They're an odd shape and colour, and it isn't easy to represent them well. Your pics are just fine!! 8)
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I had Pterostylis coccinea ( or is it Diplodium coccinum?) In flower in August / September.
I have P. truncata and P. curta preparing to flower.
I must say that they're very slow to develop the flowers, it's like watching paint dry.
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Fred,
Yeah, they do seem to take a while don't they. Although some of them are far quicker than others. Very nice pic by the way.
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Davey,
I find they are easy for a while..... Then for some reason some seem to just 'crash'. I've had this happen a few times. I do wonder about virus (Pterostylis are supposedly vulnerable to them) but never saw any mottling or other warning signs. Ironically I recently got P. coccinea back from a group member I had given plants to before losing all mine.
You are doing well already - the autumn ones can be trickier to flower than the spring ones so I'd certainly recommend P curta or the hybrids 'Nodding Grace' or 'Bantam' if you can get them. These have persisted with me for 15 years now.
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Very nice plants FredG !
Diplodium truncatum is flowering now, but it's not the most beautifull species....
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Lovely orchids everyone
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Finally the flower is open on my Pterostylis truncata / Diplodium truncatum.
The "paint has dried" ;D
It's in a cold greenhouse.
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Hum... looks quite different from mine....
I must check if I have the right species.
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A slightly different angle ;D
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Fred (Bulbissme),
I don't think yours is fully open yet in the picture. The little flags haven't gone up.
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You're right Paul, but... it's whitered now, without flags out !!!
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That's a shame, Fred. I wonder what happened to it. The flowers themselves I find last for quite a while. It sounds like something must have affected the tip of the flower, which then stopped the uprights from braking away from the rest of the flower. Still, it flowered so it must be happy and should flower every year now.
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I hope so Paul ;D
Ans I have some other species growing well, .... just waiting for the flowers...
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Hi
Any tips on growing Arachnorchis Dilatata anyone
Also Diuris Longifolia ?
Eric
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Had a few Pterostylis species over the years but I think they have all boiled down into P.curta.
If anyone could confirm this one as curta I'd be grateful, the various species I had all got
mixed up in the distant past and I guess there is the vague chance this is something else,
though I doubt it!
Many thanks
Chris
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Hi Chris
This does not look like Curta to me.
Eric
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Cheers Eric,
Guess it could be nutans or 'Nodding Grace', I've had these in the past too!
Woe is me for not keeping them all seperate!
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It's nutans, Chris. Has the bent forward head. I posted a pic somewhere of my variegated form, which I think showed the flower at the same angle.
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Thanks Paul, good to have that confirmed. I think this planter contains this species only, all the others have been quietly done away with by nutans and it's large leaves! ;)
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Chris,
If it isn't nutans, it is something closely allied to it. I don't know of any others with the nodding heads, but I am no expert on them, that is for sure.
Also, just in case anyone has noted down names of interest to them.... back on the first page of this topic I posted pics of Corybas pruinosus under and incorrect spelling for the species name. I've just been back and modified it so that the name is now correct. Thanks for pointing out the spelling mistake, Pascal. Obviously the label on the pot was incorrect, and I just copied down the name. :(
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Paul,
The pics of nutans and 'Nodding Grace' I have found exhibit the nodding habit and the brick red flush to the tips of the flower 'tube' and 'whiskers', so I reckon, given I have had these two before it's one or the other, and 'Nodding Grace' is I think just a selection of nutans, might be wrong on that but I think so. I used to have truncata and coccinea but I'm pretty sure it's not them! I reckon nutans is a good call mate!
Cheers
Chris
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Hi Chris - I think 'Nodding Grace' is a nutans x curta cross and your plant looks about right for this. As Paul notes - it looks very like nutans, but usually on taller stems. If you look into their 'mouths' then curta is much wider than nutans and the labellum is very noticeably twisted over to one side of the mouth, whereas it is more or less symetrical in nutans. 'Nodding Grace' is between the two - a frontal shot would help.
Eric - I've grown Diuris longifolia (syn D.corymbosa) for many years . It responds to standard Australian terrestrial culture but a few extra tips are: It is shy flowering and this can be combatted to some extent by allowing it to get rather overcrowded in the pot. This is aided by the fact that it doesn't like disturbance and the long thin tubers are quite brittle anyway so I only repot about every third year. If you've only one tuber it might take some time for it to flower but I can probably send it some company next summer if you like?
Here is the Diuris. As you can see - a few plants in the pot but only a couple of flowers. It does this most years. Flower is about 4cm top to bottom.
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Eric - I've grown Diuris longifolia (syn D.corymbosa) for many years . It responds to standard Australian terrestrial culture but a few extra tips are: It is shy flowering and this can be combatted to some extent by allowing it to get rather overcrowded in the pot. This is aided by the fact that it doesn't like disturbance and the long thin tubers are quite brittle anyway so I only repot about every third year. If you've only one tuber it might take some time for it to flower but I can probably send it some company next summer if you like?
Here is the Diuris. As you can see - a few plants in the pot but only a couple of flowers. It does this most years. Flower is about 4cm top to bottom.
Darren - Many thanks for your help. Yes I only have one tuber which measures about 3 cms long x 1 cm dia (not sure if this is large or small ?) and many which look like long fleshy roots, which I understand are immature tubers. I am sure some company would be most welcome if you can spare any.
Eric
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Hi Eric - 3cm by 1cm is a decent size for a Diuris tuber. The tubers of this species usually look like long fleshy roots even at flowering size, I do get the occasional ovate one such as you describe though. It increases vegetatively quite quickly which I suppose is the trade-off for it being shy flowering.
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Hi Darren,
Here is a more frontal shot, the labellum is very much orientated towards one side. Interestingly this clone may have come from you via the Lancashire AGS spring show members stand. Remember buying this and Pleione Shantung 'Muriel Harberd' one year whilst you were working behind the members sale bench! Small world I guess.......
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Hi Chris - I do remember you buying several orchids from me and recall you visiting the show several years in succession. I only realised yesterday that it must be the same Chris when I remembered at the last show you attended that you said you were off to Bulgaria!
The highly twisted labellum is diagnostic of P curta so it is either this or a hybrid of it (e.g. Nodding Grace) I'm inclined to think it is the latter, but it might be curta. If it came from me it isn't what i grow as nutans as i've never had enough nutans to sell on. My stock of both curta and Nodding Grace came from the now defunct Westwood Nursery in around 1993-1994.
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Now that's dredging up some memories I grew some Diuris, Microtis and Pterostylis from Westwood Nursery when I lived in Aberdeen! I guess 'Nodding Grace' looks more and more like a likely candidate! This clone has shown itself to be a great windowsill orchid where other species have passed by the wayside!
I do miss the Lancashire show, always great benches and a FAB members stand! ( I recall the grub is rather good too! ) ahhh, don't miss much about the UK but the SRGC / AGS shows are very high on the list! :'( :'(
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Hi Eric - 3cm by 1cm is a decent size for a Diuris tuber. The tubers of this species usually look like long fleshy roots even at flowering size, I do get the occasional ovate one such as you describe though. It increases vegetatively quite quickly which I suppose is the trade-off for it being shy flowering.
Here are photos of both the tuber and fleshy roots of Diuris Longifolia I have been given.
Eric
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Hi Eric, those roots look like proper tubers for this species. I've not had quite such an ovate tuber from it so the tuber might actually be something else (the other Diuris species have ovate tubers like that so it could be another Diuris. Thelymitra tubers also look similar).
With the 'roots', I notice at the top of the picture that they form clusters - this is normal and there is usually a growing point at the end where they join. Try not to break up these clusters. The other single ones can either be immature ones that have not clustered yet, or possibly broken bits. It doesn't matter much so long as each has a growing point. Plant the whole lot anyway. Are these recent pictures? If so then they should be in growth by now unless freshly imported from the southern hemisphere. They are pretty easy to turn round to our seasons.
Chris - The food at the Blackpool Show is still good but the members plant stall has had a few lean years as a lot of our main donors have disappeared. Last year was much better though. Westwood nursery was great wasn't it? And had an unrivalled selection of Australian orchids in this country. In his last year of trading I bought a Chinese Cymbidium ( Cymbidium sinense 'San Chuan' ) from him too and he listed a lot of the cultivars, I wish I'd bought more as the one I got has flowered reliably every Christmas and I have never seen such a range offered anywhere else.
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Hi Eric, those roots look like proper tubers for this species. I've not had quite such an ovate tuber from it so the tuber might actually be something else (the other Diuris species have ovate tubers like that so it could be another Diuris. Thelymitra tubers also look similar).
With the 'roots', I notice at the top of the picture that they form clusters - this is normal and there is usually a growing point at the end where they join. Try not to break up these clusters. The other single ones can either be immature ones that have not clustered yet, or possibly broken bits. It doesn't matter much so long as each has a growing point. Plant the whole lot anyway. Are these recent pictures? If so then they should be in growth by now unless freshly imported from the southern hemisphere. They are pretty easy to turn round to our seasons.
Chris - The food at the Blackpool Show is still good but the members plant stall has had a few lean years as a lot of our main donors have disappeared. Last year was much better though. Westwood nursery was great wasn't it? And had an unrivalled selection of Australian orchids in this country. In his last year of trading I bought a Chinese Cymbidium ( Cymbidium sinense 'San Chuan' ) from him too and he listed a lot of the cultivars, I wish I'd bought more as the one I got has flowered reliably every Christmas and I have never seen such a range offered anywhere else.
Darren , thanks very much for your thoughts on these. You are correct that these are recent importations.
These came in a batch of others including several Thelymitra .You are correct it does look similar to these.
There was a note in with the Diuris ,mentioning that they could possibly be Diuris Maculata instead off Longifolia.
I thought possibly the best way to turn them round to our seasons was by keeping them warm for a month or two and then gradually letting them cool down aiming for a growth in Spring. Any thoughts on this would be most welcome.
Eric
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Hi Eric - that is how I would do it too. The warm days (if only) and cool nights in spring should start them off nicely. Keep them coolish during summer but don't be surprised if they go dormant in July. If you then keep them warm and dry until October you should be able to start them off again then and they will be adjusted to our seasons. Be guided by their behaviour.
I'm intrigued to know what the 'rogue' turns out to be!
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Incidentally, my better half has been reading this again this morning and would like to point out in response to my remarks about a shade house (replies 36-39 of this topic (on page 3)) that she has just bought me a small lean-to greenhouse to put on the north side of the shed.
This is great. I'm now wondering about another bulb frame....
Worth a try eh? ;)
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Incidentally, my better half has been reading this again this morning and would like to point out in response to my remarks about a shade house (replies 36-39 of this topic (on page 3)) that she has just bought me a small lean-to greenhouse to put on the north side of the shed.
This is great. I'm now wondering about another bulb frame....
Worth a try eh? ;)
Darren Sleep, I wonder if you really deserve that angelic creature, Susan ..... ::) ;)
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Of course I don't! ;D
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Of course I don't! ;D
That's fine then, so long as you realise! ;)
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Time to cover up the buds on Corybas.
At least here in the UK, Corybas are prone to aborting their flowers if they get too warm or dry at this stage in their development, so the trick is to keep the humidity up until the flowers open, I either pop the whole pot into a loosely closed polythene bag, or upend a clear plastic pot over them.
Below is Corybas incurvus in bud and under cover!
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Eric, I've been scouring my literature on Diuris longifolia, corymbosa, and maculata.
True Diuris longifolia often grows with D corymbosa and hence is often mistaken for it. It has more mauve flowers and is equally shy flowering so my advice still stands. D corymbosa is often sold as D longifolia, though the long thin tubers are apparently only shared by D corymbosa and D emarginata among the cultivated species. Therefore I think these tubers probably are D coymbosa. The rounded tuber might however be true longifolia. I found a picture of the tubers of D maculata and they seem identical to your oval tuber so it could also be this. Confused? so am I!
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Darren ,thanks again for your interesting researched information. It will be very interesting to see which species I have.
Most of the Thelymitra also have question marks against them with Ixiodes mentioned as a possiblity for some . All however are nice large tubers, so hopefully some flowers soon.
Also included was a tuber of Arachnorchis Dilata and also Lobelia Gibbosa that has very orchid like tubers growing along it"s very long fleshy roots.
Do you find Corybas difficult.?
Eric
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Eric - I grow two species of Corybas. Incurvus & diemenicus. Incurvus is easier and I've maintained it for about 12 years, with modest increase. It is less keen to flower than diemenicus. Diemenicus I've had twice. The first lot did very well (I was even giving them away at one point) until they crashed one year (virus?) and I had no survivors. Richard Manuel kindly re-stocked me about 5 years ago and I've had no problem with the new ones so far. Other than needing rather more shade and humidity than the other Australian terrestrials, they don't seem too difficult.
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A month later and the Corybas are in flower. Light was lousy for taking pics so I've posted two taken this week last year. The flowers on each are no more than 15mm across. First is Corybas diemenicus, second is C. incurvus.
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Nice Darren I must give these a try if I can find any. :'(
Have just recently been in contact with Paul Christian who often in the past have stocked many Australian Orchids .He tells me that due to the cities fee being raised from £5-£85 per genus ,it is now not worth his while unless he can find stocks from Europe.
I was looking particularly this year for Thelymitra hybrids and now wish I had purchased these last year. >:(
Eric
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Hi Darren,
What potting medium do you use for your Corybas?
I did have some once from Paul Christian but they never grew.
Cheers
Paul
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Hi Paul,
They are in a mix which comprises my usual Australian terrestrial mix (20% 'toresa' 40% Seramis and 40% perlite) but mixed with a bit more humus in the form of fine composted bark. In the wild I believe many of these grow semi-epiphytically in the moss around tree or tree-fern trunks and I think a compost which suits Himalayan Pleione (or P forrestii) would probably suit them actually. Think good moisture retention, slightly acid pH and excellent drainage. Humidity is also crucial, especially as the buds develop. I don't grow them anything like as well as Richard Manuel does, so do ask him if you see him at a show.
'Toresa' - this is a treated wood-fibre product used by terrestrial orchid growers in continental Europe. It resembles coir fibre or rock-wool in texture and provides humus in a form acceptable to mycorrhizae plus good drainage and moisture retention properties. It lasts rather longer than many other forms of humus without decomposing and compacting.
I don;t know why yours didn't grow but freshly imported Corybas are quite tricky to turn round to our seasons as the tuberoids are really tiny (think of a bit of perlite) and are more vulnerable than most to over-drying if you try to keep them dormant until our autumn arrives. And if you plant them on arrival in our spring and they have not had a sufficient dormancy then they won't grow but simply rot away. A gamble either way!
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Darren,
Do you have a source for Toresa in the UK? I think that Heinrich Bayerle sells it, and I had some tubers from him last year packed in the stuff, but I'd rather buy it locally if possible to keep the shipping costs down.
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Peter - you could try Laneside alpines & Hardy Orchids near Preston. He (Jeff) is certainly aware of the stuff and it is mentioned in some links to his nursery. I've always bought mine from Heinrich. One of his 1 litre packs expands quite a lot and does me for a couple of years.
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Thanks Darren, I'll try Heinrich. I wasn't sure how far one pack would go, and how many to order.
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My Sun Orchid (Thelymitra nuda) has been flowering all week - the sun was shining, that's why. I took it to a show yesterday and the sun shone all day, so it obliged and created quite a little bit of interest.
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Nice Maren.
I am eagerly awaiting mine to open too.
Eric
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There were a few Thelymitra in flower on wednesday afternoon when I got home but was too frazzled to take pictures and now the weather has gone cool so they won't open!
Here is the only Caladenia which does well for me - it is C. Harlequin x C. flava.
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Thelymitra 'Sleeping Beauty'. A prolific flowerer and good increaser. Lovely rose scent too.
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I don't grow these orchids in my garden but have a few pics I've taken elsewhere!
These bird orchids (Chiloglottis ? valida) were growing in the saw-dust paths at a friend's place in the Dandenongs!
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We stopped along the roadside near Bendigo last week and took pics of these "Lady's finger orchids"
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and some "Wax-lips", Glossodia ?major,
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and a donkey orchid (Diuris)! I'd not seen one in "the wild" for many, many years, though they were common where I grew up.
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cheers
fermi
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Fermi, what a great sight in the sawdust! It really is amazing where plants will grow. I imagine the shavings hold the moisture below the surface?
and a donkey orchid (Diuris)! I'd not seen one in "the wild" for many, many years, though they were common where I grew up.
This is cute and SO amusing once you focus on the lashes on those eyes :)
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I'm quite surprised at the tenacity of certain Australian ground orchids. 5 years ago, I bought a 2m. live trunk of the tree fern Dicksonia antarctica from one of our local DIY sheds at a ridiculously, impossible to refuse price. It was planted in dappled shade in the border where it grew away and continues to thrive. For the first year or so, Acacias (mainly melanoxylon) germinated from seeds that had become embedded between the frond bases as well as a few no-ID ferns. These were removed to prevent any compromise to the fern while it was settling in. The tree ferns were tagged with their origins stated as being Victoria, Australia and I understand that many grow in association with Acacia melanoxylon, which accounts for these 'hitch-hikers' appearing when the ferns are transplanted to UK gardens.
In late summer 2008 I noticed a rather unusual, dark sea-green, ovate leaf about 3cm long and 1.5cm across lying flat against the trunk just below the crown. It was quite unlike any other Australian 'weed' that I'd seen before so I left it to develop further. Within a few weeks, a new leaf started to develop and realising that the danger of predation from a passing slug or snail was too great, I decided to try and grow this unusual interloper in more controlled conditions. With the aid of a screwdriver, I carefully dug down through the trunk fibres and frond bases to remove as much of the shoot as possible. Unfortunately I wasn't careful enough because all that came away were the leaves attached to a 4cm long section of fleshy white rhizome and no root.
The shoot was brought indoors, inserted into a small pot filled with chopped sphagnum moss, covered with a polythene bag and sat in a saucer of water. It was kept shaded from direct sun and water was topped up when it had evaporated away. After about 6 weeks, another leaf started to appear, quickly followed by another indicating that this new 'no-ID plant' had recovered from being extracted and was settling in to its pot. Growth continued slowly through the winter and by spring there were 6 leaves forming a single rosette on the surface of the compost. By early summer, the leaves started to die away confirming my suspicions that it was probably a winter growing plant that became dormant in summer. I carefully removed the plant from its pot and teased out the moss. I discovered several sparse, white, fleshy roots attached to short sections of rhizome together with a pair of pea-sized tubers. The lot was left intact and returned to the pot for a few months. I kept the compost very slightly moist and waited.
In late August 2009, growth resumed with 2 new shoots appearing. I changed the compost to a mixture of chopped moss, leaf mould, loam and charcoal, but used the same pot. The shoots formed a pair of rosettes with 6 or 7 leaves each and by late autumn, another pair of shoots started to appear. By now I was fairly certain that this was one of the ground orchids, but which one? I'd have to wait for flowers to be certain, but I was more or less decided that it was one of the Pterostylis or 'Greenhood' orchids. In December, the flower spikes appeared in the centre of the two main rosettes, one more advanced than the other and the newer shoots were also growing quickly to form smaller rosettes. The first flower opened in January - it was Pterostylis pedunculata aka Maroonhood on account of the crimson-maroon hued flowers. The second flower opened a week or so later and the smaller rosettes flowered a few weeks after that. Not bad for a terrestrial orchid that had been completely detached from its original roots only 18 months before.
This summer there were about 8 pea-sized tubers amongst the roots and I moved the plant to a larger pot, where it resumed growth after 8 -9 weeks of dormancy. Growth has been very strong so far with about 14 new shoots jostling for space - I've not given it a large enough pot. I'm expecting quite a show of flowers early next year and will transfer it to a shallow pan at the next repot. This is not a beautiful or eye catching species, but the flowers are fascinatingly intricate when viewed closely. It's a true 'Ozzie back-packer' that turned up in my 'back yard' and while I would never have bought this orchid, I'm now very pleased to have it.
Dave Poole
Autumn 2009
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b349/DavePoole1/greenie.jpg)
December 2009
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b349/DavePoole1/pterostylis_002.jpg)
January 2010
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b349/DavePoole1/pt1.jpg)
Close-up
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b349/DavePoole1/pt2.jpg)
September 2010
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b349/DavePoole1/pt4.jpg)
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Certainly looks like pedunculata, which is noted as an occasional epiphyte on Dicksonia (but then what doesn't grow on a Dicksonia). I have a key for Tassie Pterostylis which includes pedunculata. PM me if you'd like me to email you a copy to confirm the ID.
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Pterostylis x toveyana is the first to flower in the greenhouse
Can somebody confirm the identification ?
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Hi Fred,
This looks like P. coccinea to me (now a Diplodium unless they've changed their minds again....). X toveyana is a hybrid between alata and concinna and has quite tubby green flowers in all the pictures I've seen. Your flower looks too red and, to be honest, rather more elegant in appearance!
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hello,
the first to flower for me this autumn are
Pterostylis X furcillata
(http://www.bildercache.de/bild/20101019-135900-59.jpg)
and a little bit closer
(http://www.bildercache.de/bild/20101019-135900-486.jpg)
enjoy
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The aliens surrender?? :D
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Fred
I have to agree with Darren, your plant looks like Pterostylis coccinea (Diplodium coccinum).
My P. x Toveyana isn't quite open yet , I'll post when it is.
For reference this is a photo of my P. coccinea.
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Thank's for reply Darren and Fred, and thank's to P christian for labeling.....
I like this Alien genus which grows and increases quite easyly
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This is the plant I received as Pterostylis X toveyana
It is a little different to my P. coccinea but not like the photos I've seen of the plant online.
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Fred it looks like Bulbissime got his from the same source as yours,i would phone him up and inquire.
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Pterostylis obtusa
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Diplodium truncatum is flowering now.
I hope this is the right name as it also comes from P Christian ???
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Nice - I don't have this one. The name seems correct this time. There is a resemblance to coccinum but the leaves lack the tendril tips and the hood is more folded inward, though possibly not as much as in some pictures of truncatum I have seen (or even the picture on PC's own website). A picture in profile would help.
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Just ask darren ;D
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(Sorry for off-topic) I announce that since today I am totally infected with Australian terrestrial orchids against my will, but they are so amazing that it is impossible for me to resist them any longer. :) I am sure that with your help I will succeed with this group. For start I target Pterostylis nutans and Corybas diemenicu, hoping that they are good for start.
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Hello Chris and welcome.
the Pterostylis is a good starter plant. I love the Corybas diemenicus, but haven't found a source in England to buy it. I found a picture of it growing in Sphagnum moss in the wild. I hope the Australasian Native Orchid Society
(Victoria Group) Inc. doesn't mind me showing their picture from this page:http://www.anosvic.org.au/ANOS_Vic_Spring_Show.html
Good luck with your Australian terrestrials.
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Just saw the profile picture Fred, it does look like truncatum to me.
Maren & Chris: I'd like to say that I might spare you one or two C. diemenicus in a year or two but dare not tempt fate. ;) It is one of those plants which increases well for years then seemingly dies out all at once.... I've already had to re-start once.
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X toveyana is a hybrid between alata and concinna and has quite tubby green flowers in all the pictures I've seen
Not an orchid specialist but, according to the Wapstra's latest book (Tamanian plant names unravelled, 2010), strictly speaking x toveyana is now applied on the mainland to hybrids between concinna and striata, and here in Tassie is misapplied to the similar hybrids between concinna and alata. No doubt there'll be another revision in a year or two, since the '07 lumping of all the '01 pterostylis splits is apparently still to settle-in. I only hope the plants aren't giddy.
Like the diemenicus. Grow it myself and it's a very sweet little thing.
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Maren & Chris: I'd like to say that I might spare you one or two C. diemenicus in a year or two but dare not tempt fate. ;)
Oh Darren, I'll wait patiently. :) :) :) :)
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This link was mentioned in another thread..... not sure if it has been given before so thought I'd repeat it here.....
I have just come across this web site on Tasmanian Ground Orchids with images so impressive I had to share it.
http://www.upclose.net.au
http://www.upclose.net.au
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Wow! :o :D :o
Of course they will most likely never be available in the UK, so we'll have to go visiting to pay homage....
How long is a flight to Hobart from the UK? :P
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Just noticed today my Pterostylis have died yet they surviced the freeze in January ???
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How long is a flight to Hobart from the UK?
You certainly wouldn't have to go much further than Hobart once you got here to see something interesting, as this blog (http://tasmanianplants.com/category/orchids/) shows.
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Rob, that's a great link, thank you! A lot of happy browsing to be done there, I reckon.
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There is too. The Bush tucker bit is interesting. I'm going to eat next years Romulea rosea seed capsules ;D
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Howdy All,
Just caught up with this topic (I haven't been into the orchid section in a VERY long time unfortunately, I just haven't had the time). Congrats on all the flowerings. I was pleased to see the pics of Diplodium coccineum as I have it in bud for the first time for me at present, having multiplied freely for me for the last couple of years. I've just had Diplodium decurvum finish flowering for me as well (I think I posted a pic of it in the Southern Hemisphere topic recently)?
And Congrats on flowering the Corybas. Flowering them has still eluded me as yet. ::) They produce leaves for me, but not flowers. :'(
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Paul,
Corybas incurvus flowering is unpredictable with me. Some years I get plenty of flowers, other years none (but the leaves are noticeably larger in those years). I wish I knew the reason.
I do find I get stronger plants (bigger tubers) if I move the pots to a very shady place after the flowering season and keep them in growth a bit longer as a result. This still doesn't guarantee flowers though...
Diemenicus, whilst trickier to keep going, does flower more reliably once tubers reach a decent size.
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Darren,
I was talking to someone this afternoon about flowering Corybas (I was sharing a few tubers... Pterostylis, Diplodium, Serapias and Thelymitra) and they said that the key is apparently humidity. If not humid enough they won't flower. I was told to put a clear cover "hood" over the plants as soon as they come into leaf. They need this humidity to trigger the flowering. Some others put the pot into a plastic bag that sits high above the pot, then leave it open at the top (traps air above the pot and keeps it humid). There have apparently been arguments about which is better. ;D Hopefully that might give a clue as to why they have worked some years for you and not others? Have they been more humid years when they flowered (if you can remember)?
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Paul, the humity solution with the hood is more intended to let the buds mature as they otherwise shrivel up, I highly doubt it will influence the formation of buds as this goes back to the previous year. Unless it is suggested that keeping the air humidity high this season will promote flowering next year?
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Pascal,
You're right, I used the term "trigger the flowering" and you're spot on that this wouldn't be right. I had been thinking of it like that, but it would not be the formation of the buds, but the appearance of the buds that would need the humidity. I am guessing that without the humidity they abort very early, so we never see them. I hadn't thought about the mechanics of it but you're right. I've not seen buds even appearing on mine, but they may shrivel so early that they never seem to appear at all?
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Paul,
If they're the diamenicus I gave you then it may be a temp. thing - AFAIK they're sourced from Mt Wellington; probably a little cooler than your place.
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G'day all,
I have just discovered your superb show of Australian ground orchids (Thelymitra, Pterosylis, Diuris, etc). All of these I have seen growing in the Stirling Range (WA). Having grown at our home in the Rhône Valley numerous other species native to Australia and more specifically to the Stirling range (especially Banksia), I would like to turn my hand to ground Orchids too: However I have been frustrated for last two seasons because Paul Christian (Wrexham) has suspended supplying them. I have just noticed that I can get 3 Thelymitra sp from "Laneside" Nursery.
Can you suggest other suppliers, as it is not easy for me to get to shows in the UK?
Best regards,
Banksia Man
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One site I can recommend is http://www.myorchids.de/main1.htm.
Heinrich Bayerle, whose site this is, grows his orchids from seed, and the plants I have had from him in the past have been excellent, and grown away well. Among the Australian genera he lists are Diuris, Thelymitra, Microtis and Pterostylis. Some good South African species also.
The list is only valid until the end of December, so you're too late for the 2010 list. The new one seems to appear about late August/September time if memory serves me correctly.
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Heinrich's list often appears as early as June and , like Peter, I have found the service and quality excellent.
re: Corybas, I do indeed cover the plants as soon as I can see the flower buds (often in January but this year will be several weeks late I think), generally if buds abort they are visible as shrivelled remains. Still a bit mystified about bud formation but interested by all your replies. Incidentally - molluscs love Corybas flowers.
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Darren,
Mollusks love Acianthus flowers as well.... I have a bunch coming into bud last year and one night every stem went. :'(
Rob,
I now have Corybas from a couple of different sources, and to be honest I haven't checked the pots to see which are from where. I know that I did lose complete pots of 2 of them one year, but I don't know whether those were from you or not.
Banksia Man,
Good luck with finding the Aussie terrestrials where you are. I have no idea of suppliers elsewhere in the world. :-\
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Hello Banksia Man, a warm welcome to the Forum.
Good advice from Peter and Darren about sources, I'm sure.... and likely more to come from other Forumists.... they're a clever bunch, and very helpful!
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Hi,
I can recommend Andrew Bannister of Orchid Alchemy. He grows some beautiful Thelymitra http://www.orchidalchemy.com/shop/category_3/Temperate-Terrestrial-Orchids.html?shop_param=cid%3D%26.
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Hi Banksia Man,
I think we could swap some Pterostylis ... ;D may be no need of post office ;D ;)
see you soon
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Thanks to you all for your advice. :) Heinrich's site looks great!
Banksia Man
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Hi,
has anyone seen Spiranthes australis in flower? it should bloom between December and February. http://www.orchidspecies.com/spiraustralis.htm
I am looking for seed. :)
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Maren,
I grow the local Spiranthes, which I think is the species. Little pink and white flowers? Mine aren't flowering this year though, as I hadn't for a couple of years and they'd gone rather backwards. They've just been repotted and should be hopefully back to flowering size next year, fingers crossed. 8)
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Hi Paul,
No seeds from yours then :'( :'( :'(
I wish you luck with your plant. I have one small plant of Spiranthes sinensis, which some people consider to be a synonym of S australis, although I cant see it:
S sinensis: white flower with pink edging
S australis: pink flower with white edging.
The sinensis is a bit tricky, it likes it wet but perhaps not as cold as we get it here. Yet I have acres, well, lots of Spiranthes cernua v odorata 'Chadd's Ford', growing in medium bark in deep pots in half an inch of water all year round, and they love it. Masses of new growths that even the frost didn't touch. - Perhaps the S sinensis will grow better with my pleiones rather than outdoors.
How do you grow yours?
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Maren,
I found that Siranthes sinensis was excellent at choosing a home for itself - it used to seed around in neighbouring pots in the greenhouse very easily. But it was next to impossible to transplant elsewhere without it dying so I was content to admire it wherever it popped up. Have not seen any since we moved though.
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Did you take the pots with you when you moved ;) ;) ;)
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Yes ;D but greenhouse is in a much sunnier position and is also much less humid (on solid concrete rather than ankle deep in water like the old one sometimes was!). So conditions for seeding are perhaps less favourable. Also the type of plants I grow under glass has changed and are now mostly summer dormant, so in dry compost. The Spiranthes especially liked pots of summer-growing bulbs in peaty lime free compost (e.g. Cypella) or pots of Protea etc which were also lime free and had at least some moisture all year.
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Hi Darren,
our chat motivated me to look at my Spiranthes sinense. I tipped it out of its pot, expecting some nice fleshy roots, but there was just nothing but the skin in which the roots used to live. Sniff. :'( :'(
But my pleiones are doing very well, thank you.
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Anyone out there growing Leptoceras menziesii? From a single tuber in 2009 I now have 4 plants, all seemingly very small, with single leaves between 1 and 2 cms in length. Is this too small to flower? All the photographs on the web seem to concentrate on the flowers, which is fair enough, but I can't get any idea about how big the leaves actually grow!
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I don't grow it - yet, but this link shows a rather poor picture of the flowering plant in the wild:
http://florabase.calm.wa.gov.au/browse/profile/15418
It seems to flower at about 50cms height with a basal rosette (if that's not too grand a word) of leaves.
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Thanks Peter. This page didn't appear when I googled the plant. Not sure about the scale, but interesting that some have only one leaf, others a rosette.
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Apparently Leptoceras menziesii needs to be stored dry with a ripe banana (or old banana skin) to get it to flower regularly in captivity. It IS a small tuber as far as I know. I lost my previous one to frost and just got some more recently, they're about to come out of their 3 week banana holiday! ;D
Here's a Diplodium coccineum that is currently in flower for me. Nice to be starting to have some of the terrestrials flowering. 8)
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Maren,
Sorry to hear about your Spiranthes. :( I don't think any of my plants lived more than a couple of years which is why I was glad that it seeded about.
By the way - Rareplants (Paul Christian) have now produced their list of freshly imported Australian terrestrials. Some nice stuff, including Corybas.
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Hi Everyone,
I had given up hope ... BUT Paul Christian in Wrexham has recently put up the Aussie orchids catalogue.
I have just placed an order, including for Leptoceras menziesii. :)
For SteveC2, Paul Christian also recommends the "banana skin" treatment to provoke flowering (see his site)
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I discovered this in flower in my shadehouse yesterday (I didn't even know it was in bud! ::)).....
It's a Chiloglottis species but not sure which one. The flower is about 1cm across, but oh so cute!! ;D I've included a few pics at different angles etc to show the flower. Much more impressive in the pics than in real life, because you can see so much more detail. ;)
Enjoy.
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nearly all my Aussies came from paul Christian, so I've tried the banana skin trick, and I reckon that my paraffin heaters are very nicely simulating regular bush fires! But what concerns me is the size, or lack of it, of not just my Leptoceras but of several other Aussies. I know that they are tiny tubers, so expected the plants to be quite small, so I was trying to get some idea of what size is a "flowering sized" plant. So far my experiences with Aussies is that Pterostylis are quite happy here, flowering regularly and increasing, but the others, (Diuris, Caladenia and Thelymitra) whilst bulking up on number of tubers, are very flower shy. I was just interested to know what others think?
Just another thought; whilst I know that the flowers are the main attraction it would be helpful to see whole plant photos with some idea of scale.
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Steve,
I included the pic showing more of the Chiloglottis for reasons of scale. Details for both I've posted on this page are as follows....
The first is Diplodium coccineum (formerly Pterostylis coccinea). Flowers stand at about 20 to 25cm tall or so (I haven't actually measured it, just from memory) and the flower is about 2.5cm or so.
The second is a Chiloglottis species. I have no idea of the species unfortunately, as it was given to me without one. The flower is around 1cm across, standing maybe 10cm tall. I've provided some different angles just to show different details.
Is that a help?
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Very useful, thanks very much. When not if, I must be positive, my aussies flower I'll try to do the same thing.
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Anyone out there growing Leptoceras menziesii? From a single tuber in 2009 I now have 4 plants, all seemingly very small, with single leaves between 1 and 2 cms in length.
Hi Steve,
L. menziesii was originally classified as Caladenia menziesii (wikipedia). According to The Australasian Native Orchid Society Victorian Group,
"C. menziesii rarely flowers in the wild except after a fire" (p. 72) They too recommend ethylene gas (banana skin) treatment for dormant tuberoids which should be placed in a plastic bag with the banana skin for two weeks prior to planting out and indeed particularly for this species (p. 63) where "spectacular results" have been obtained (photo on p. 71)
They also say that C menziesii need repotting annually and that in the growig season the mixture should be watered sparingly. "Only just moist", never remaining wet, never drying out completely.
Good luck, and I will let you know in 2 years time how I get on!
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Howdy All,
Here's another couple of pics of the Diplodium coccineum now that more flowers have opened. As requested, I've included a pic of the full plant to give you an idea of the scale and of the growth habit etc, as well as a pic of the 2 new flowers and the colours of the original flower now that it has aged. It's a very nice red I think!! I have been told there are various shades of coccineum and that some have a good red and others don't, so I'm pretty pleased with how red this one is. ;D
Pterotylis ophioglossa is in bud at present (I must check if it has been renamed or not ::)). The Leptoceras menziesii are now out of their bag with the banana skin, and they're potted up safely. Fingers crossed for flowers. ;)
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Paul,
That's a nice red Diplodium. The foliage looks taller than when I've grown it - are you keeping it heavily shaded?
Could your Chiloglottis be C. trapeziformis? Flower and short stem look right.
Steve - Thelymitra flower well for me once the tubers reach flowering size (generally over 1cm in diameter, some bigger species such as T. nuda are about the size of a hazelnut). Diuris fall into two groups: Those which increase rapidly but sacrifice flowers (e.g. D corymbosa) and those which flower well but increase only slowly (e.g. D aurea). D corymbosa (syn D longifolia) flowers better if allowed to get crowded and is undisturbed as far as possible, but I still don't expect it to be generous.. Caladenia are hit & miss, some years they flower well and some years not - I have not yet worked out why. Same goes for Corybas as discussed earlier. Not a single flower on my quite healthy pot of incurvus this year but diemenicus next to it is showing plenty of buds - but is very late this year.
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Paul, thanks for the pictures. You happen to have hit on one of my collection. Am I right in thinking that the Diplodium has two growth forms; one flowering and the other not flowering but with a leaf rosette? Last year my pot contained about 50:50, this year seemingly all non-flowering. Presumably the flowering forms do not have enough leaves to produce tubers for the next year or am I wrong?
Sorry if my posts sound like the Spanish Inquisition but that's why I joined the forum, to pick experts' minds.
I've just taken delivery of some tubers on Aussie time so it will be interesting to watch your plants over the next few months.
Darren, many thanks. It's nice to know that some of these plants are so down right unpredictable.
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Darren,
It is fairly shaded, but the leaves did this last year as well. It does seem to sit upright quite strongly for me.
I don't think the Chiloglottis is trapeziformis, or if it is then it is a very, very different form to the other one I have. The other one flowers in spring, whereas this one is flowering in late summer. My other is taller, and the proportions of the flower are different. I have "A Complete Guide to Native Orchids of Australia" by David L. Jones and I have yet to go through it properly with the camera pics in front of me (they show so much more detail than looking at the flower in person), but I think I may have worked out which species it is. I'll get back to you with the name once I think I've sorted it. ;)
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Paul, thanks for the pictures. You happen to have hit on one of my collection. Am I right in thinking that the Diplodium has two growth forms; one flowering and the other not flowering but with a leaf rosette? Last year my pot contained about 50:50, this year seemingly all non-flowering. Presumably the flowering forms do not have enough leaves to produce tubers for the next year or am I wrong?
Sorry if my posts sound like the Spanish Inquisition but that's why I joined the forum, to pick experts' minds.
I've just taken delivery of some tubers on Aussie time so it will be interesting to watch your plants over the next few months.
Darren, many thanks. It's nice to know that some of these plants are so down right unpredictable.
The majority of the Pterostylis family have flowering and non-flowering tubers. Each tuber produces a leaf rosette, but in some cases this is all. Some species produce an inflorescence separately to a growth point, if they flower straight out of dormancy (I have had decurrens do this this year for the first time...... a flower spike straight out of the ground, now the leaf rosettes are appearing on both the flowering and non-flowering tubers. I am unsure exactly what triggers flowering. Maybe conditions in some species, size of tuber, number of leaves.... I'm guessing different things for different species.
I don't mind the spanish inquisition. Always happy to try to help people with my limited knowledge.... just make sure you get second opinions as I am certainly no expert. ::)
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Paul,
The Chiloglottis looks like sylvestris.
Andrew
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Hello Andrew (corymbosa), great to have another Australian orchid fan in the Forum. :)
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Welcome Andrew!! 8)
I had it identified last night at our local Orchid Society meeting as Chiloglottis seminuda. C. sylvestris has flowers much larger than mine when I just checked the references to compare. 8)
Here's a couple of other Aussie natives that I photographed at the meeting last night..... Diplodium abruptum and Speculatha (that is what it had on the tag, no other info). Sorry for not brilliant pics, but the conditions for photographing tiny flowers like this were pretty awful. ::)
I hope you all enjoy.
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Thanks for the welcome.
I had it identified last night at our local Orchid Society meeting as Chiloglottis seminuda. C. sylvestris has flowers much larger than mine when I just checked the references to compare. 8)
I was trying to decide between seminuda and sylvestris but I couldn't see notched in the main callus, the lateral sepals seemed to be quite spread out and the clubs looked greenish so I went with sylvestris.
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Andrew,
I just looked at the size when I did my quick comparison. The guy who ID'd it last night should be fairly reputable, as he knows his terrestrials pretty well. Even then, he was using one of the books to work it out for sure, as many of them are rather similar, and they're so blinkin' tiny. ;D So are you here in Aus, or an Aussie native orchid lover from overseas?
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I'm in Victoria. I mainly grow Australian orchids; mostly terrestrials and Sarcs, although I'm trying to expand the number of exotic terrestrials in my collection => I stumbled on this forum looking for info on Pleione at Paul Cumbleton's site.
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Caladenia 'Fairy Floss' indoor ;)
Second blossom in 4 years of culture here :)
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You are doing better than me Maxime - ten years of culture and never a flower!
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Congratulations, Maxime! Well done. 8)
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The first of my Thelymitra - this is T. macrophylla x luteocilium
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some more Thelymitra
Yellow form of T x macmillanii. (Being use as support by Tropaeolum sessilifolium which has decided to be a climber this year..)
T. aff holmesii x rubra
Both the above grow to about 15 - 20cm high, flowers about 25mm diameter.
The last one is T crinita x nuda, which as well as being a lovely sky blue, is much bigger (you can see the red flowers of the previous plant at the bottom of this picture) it exceeds 40cm and the flowers are also twice as big at 5cm across.
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Great plants, Darren.....obviously doing really well for you.
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I wish mine would flower as well as that - great plants
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Thank you both :)
Funny how some genera decide they like your conditions. Before we moved I grew Pterostylis so well that I was giving them away by the dozen.. Now I can only just keep them going but Thelymitra do really well instead. The pure species are nothing like as vigorous as these hybrids though.
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How do you grow your Thelymitra, Darren? mine do well one year and disappear the next. :'(
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Hi Maren,
Sorry to hear you struggle with these.
My potting mix is: about 40% seramis or moler clay cat litter, 40% perlite, 20% 'Toresa' treated wood fibre.
Watering is identical to my bulbs - a big watering in september, followed by another in october. Kept just frost free in winter. Leaves usually appear in October but growth slows down a lot in cold weather and they get enough water to keep them moist until about late feb when things speed up again and watering is frequent until early May. I generally feed with tomorite at 1/4 strength every few weeks.
Apparently the critical time is around now (flowering time) - the tubers can rot if kept too wet when the weather warms up so I aim to keep just moist again until the last flower fades then I stop watering - usually before the end of May. Some recommend removing them from under glass once danger of frost is gone but the flowers only open in warm temperatures so in a typical NW England spring there would not be many days warm enough except under glass!
Totally dry summer in their pots. I only repot every other year just before watering again in september.
(T. cyanea only has a short dormancy as if flowers late and often starts to grow again in august so it is only dry from early june to late july.)
Hope this helps.
What is your regime Peter? Always interested to compare notes.
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Darren where do you get your Toresa from?
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Neil - I buy mine from Heinrich Beyrle at myorchids.de
It seems extravagant with postage etc, but a small pack is enough to last me a couple of years.
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Damn was hoping you found a cheaper source.
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Have I missed something- What is Toresa, please ?
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Basically its a peat substitute made from nitrogen-stabilized wood fiber.
http://replay.web.archive.org/20050206010832/http://www.toresa.de/uk/navigation/index_e.html
their website does appear to be there any more but does give some info, have used the web archive to find it
this place does produce it http://www.kranzinger-erde.at/
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Sorry Maggi,
It is a treated wood fibre product, resembling rock wool in appearance but brown and less prickly! Supposed to provide a good food source for mycorrhizal fungi whilst still allowing perfect drainage without compaction. Seems to be only available in continental europe - specifically Germany.
Probably fine bark or sterilised leafmould would do just as well, but my motto is if it ain't broke don't fix it so I'm sticking with what I know works for me. :)
Given that european forumists are visiting the UK and loading up with JI composts for the return journey maybe some sort of exchange could be arranged..
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Neil beat me to it there!
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Thanks, Neil and Darren... I'd never heard of it and supposed that others might also like to know. ;)
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It is a similar product to NeudoHum talked about in this thread http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5691.msg158083#msg158083
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This little, and I mean little as it's 3cm from top to bottem, is Chiloglottis pescottiana, the bronzey bird orchid. It's a stubborn creature, refusing to budge from Australian time, so it flowers in the middle of our summer, which maybe isn't that different to an Aussie winter? The bird appears to have an ant hitching a ride.
I think that it scores A+ for weird and F- for ease of photgraphing, it's just so 3 dimensional.
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F- for ease of photgraphing, it's just so 3 dimensional.
Or should that be F-for spelling!
Its a nice looking flower.
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A pterostylis sp. received from Darren. very vigorous and multiplies easily
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Not for me it doesn't Tony :(
Nice to see it doing so well for you though.
I'm glad I passed some of my (once massive) stock on to friends before I somehow lost the ability to grow the thing!
It's what used to be called Pterostylis coccinea and is now a Diplodium unless those Aussie botanists have been tinkering again since I last looked.
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Howdy All,
I haven't been into the Orchid section in ages.... so much to catch up on. :o I'll never catch up on it all, but I'll try for a few of them at least. ;)
I thought I would resurrect this topic though to post some of the things that are starting to flower here for me at present. This is the first of the Donkey Orchids, Diuris maculata. A general shot, a group, and a closeup for detail. Lots of other species have buds emerging at the moment. 8)
Click on the pics for a larger version!
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This is the first of the Donkey Orchids, Diuris maculata. A general shot, a group, and a closeup for detail.
Gold and chocolate- what a great colour combination!
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Drrrrrrrrrooooooooooooooooooooool :P :P :P
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Fred,
Is that for the flowers, or the thought of gold and chocolate together? ;D
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Wow Paul! Does this species grow around Canberra?
Makes me want to get out and check a few sites around Hobart. Some of the Donkey orchids should be making a show soon.
Fabulous pictures, cheers, Marcus
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hey, have some pots of Pterostylis and Diplodium.
the first to bloom this year with only 2 flowers from 15 tubers
Diplodium coccinum
(http://www.bildercache.de/bild/20121003-081357-175.jpg)
enjoy
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Goofy,
That's Diplodium coccinum, not Diplomeris coccina. The former genus is I think Japanese, and has flat white flowers from my (vague) memory? I thought I should mention this to avoid future confusion if anyone was searching on the name for example.
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tks Paul,
you are right, my mistake.
just corrected...............
was a liitle bit confused. too early this morning ;D
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It's lovely to see pictures of orchids from "down under". Keeps us in touch and cheers us up when everything here is drawing in for the winter rest. Thank you all. :) :) :) :)
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Fred,
Is that for the flowers, or the thought of gold and chocolate together? ;D
Gold and chocolate are easy to get hold of, those flowers are not.
Is this revenge for the Utricularia?
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Pterostylis / Diplodium coccinea now in flower. Much reduced in number this year as I have given away/swapped most of the pot.
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hey,
as a summary I must say,
that I was not so successful this year with the Pterostylis /Diplodiums.
this is the last one from 3 tubers which flowered this season.
Diplodium grandiflorum /Cobra Greenhood.
(http://www.bildercache.de/bild/20121231-154745-767.jpg)
enjoy
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Paul do you grow many native orchids.