Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Specific Families and Genera => Pleione and Orchidaceae => Topic started by: Maren on November 20, 2010, 06:37:53 PM
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Hi,
earlier this year I ran out of supercoarse Perlite, which I use in my pleione compost:
1 part sphagnum moss (chopped into 1 inch lengths)
1 part Melcourt potting barg, sifted
1 part supercoarse Perlite.
It was only a small batch of pleiones that had to be potted, so I substituted the perlite with the cat litter from Tesco, which consisted of clay granules about 2mm in diameter.
While harvesting my pleione pseudobulbs, I found that all the cat litter had migrated to the bottom of the pots and combined into a dense layer which was dripping wet, and so was the rest of the compost. By the way, I stopped watering the pleiones at the beginning of October and those in my normal compost were nice and dry. The pleione bulbs in the cat litter compost were not worth keeping and went straight on the compost heap. - I clearly did something wrong but I don't think I'll use it again. It pays to have the same compost for like plants, so that they can be treated with the same regime of watering, feeding etc.
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I have used it for Pleione without problems as well as Cyps (moler clay cat litter, non clumping) but prefer perlite (cheaper in 100 ltr bags).
' It pays to have the same compost for like plants, so that they can be treated with the same regime of watering, feeding etc.' Could not agree more with you as having tried many different composts at the same time, watering and feeding becomes a nightmare. I now use one compost for nearly all Pleione and one compost for my Cyps.
Hope they were cheap Pleione you lost.
David
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Thanks David,
sadly, they were yunnanensis. It hurt, a lot. :( :(
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A sad experience, Maren. We've read before in the Forum about the use of this cat litter as a perlite substitute in compost ...... I expect you are correct in your supposition that it was the differing mixes which caused the problem by reacting in different ways to the same regime... hard lesson to learn though. :'(
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Thanks David,
sadly, they were yunnanensis. It hurt, a lot. :( :(
Ouch! :-[
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An excellent alternative I found to perlite is old plaster chunks which tend to hold more air than moisture. Readily available free from builders when renovating houses also recommended by old gardeners for inclusion when planting clematis.
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The big lesson for me is not to experiment with things one doesn't want to lose.
On the bright side, the pleione harvest is turning out to be quite good. I am particularly pleased with Pln Shantung 'Pink Panther'. this is a hybrid made by a friend but he didn't like it and gave it to me. "Too girly", he said. I'm hoping to bulk it up. It looks really nice on a display stand.
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Nice flower that 'Pink Panther', Maren..... and to my eye a lot less "girly" thant some of the rather streaky violent pinks we see ::)
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A rose is a rose is a rose :)
But Catlitter is not catlitter :(
It all depends upon what it is made from.
Some are made from crushed lightweight concrete meaning that the pH is so high that it will kill nearly anything.
Some are made from some kind of clay meaning that they will turn to muck after some time. This is intentional. The result is that "wet" granules will stick together so that they can be sieved off.
Cheers
Göte
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A rose is a rose is a rose :)
But Catlitter is not catlitter :(
It all depends upon what it is made from.
Some are made from crushed lightweight concrete meaning that the pH is so high that it will kill nearly anything.
Some are made from some kind of clay meaning that they will turn to muck after some time. This is intentional. The result is that "wet" granules will stick together so that they can be sieved off.
Cheers
Göte
And some is made from Biosorb which is moler clay similar to seramis and is perfectly OK to use. Used a lot by Bonsai growers. If in doubt which one you have bought, don't use it.
Paul Cumbleton covered this topic before for anyone who wants to read it
http://www.srgc.org.uk/wisley/2008/100908/log.html
Maren, I hope P. Pink Panther bulks up well for you as I think it's lovely.
Davis
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I agree : Pink Panther looks very nice indeed ! :D
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Maren,
Sorry to hear of your diasater with cat litter. But just in case people think it's totally useless, I've been trying Cypripedium seedlings this year in 50:50 Tesco cat litter (the one like moler clay) and perlite with a little (very little) leafmold added. Results so far are much better than my previous experiences growing Cyp seedlings. In this mixture in polystyrene boxes they do need regular watering (daily, via an automatic system) and feeding fortnightly.
Very little liverwort growth either.
Just have to wait 4-5 years for the flowers now. :D
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Burnt moler clay will of course be quite good; No pH problem and stable. The question remains what a cat litter manufacturer will mix into it. and if he will for some reason will switch to some other substance without telling anyone. The best course would be to get it from the Danes directly. I do not use anything of this kind so I am ignorant but what are the prices on seramis, coarse perlite and cat litter respectively? If cat litter is significant cheaper than seramis, it would be a good business oppotunity to import the Danish stuff as is.
Göte
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Hi Göte,
you've got me interested. I have been importing Seramis from Germany and it cost £450 per cubic metre, that was 5 years ago.
What's the danish stuff? where do I get it from and how much is it?
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Hi Maren,
sorry to hear about your experiences with cat litter.By coincidence I bought my first bag at Tesco's last week. I'd read on the web that it is used to grow Phragmipedium kovachii in the USA. I repotted a hybrid kovachii seedling into it at the weekend and will see how it fares. t was a fairly desperate case - the old compost had begun to smell and I didn't have anything else to hand.Maybe you could use up your spare litter potting up more tropical orchids?
David
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Hi David,
all my spent orchid compost goes straight onto the allotment. I've used up the cat litter with some of my cypripediums and I am a bit nervous about that. Still, I only used it on some C. reginae, the most robust of them all. Let's hope they don't mind. ::) ::)
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Hi Maren,
Interesting to see you find C. reginaes to be robust. That's the one I generally found I could kill most easily!
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Hi Peter,
you must have special skills ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;D
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Hi Göte,
you've got me interested. I have been importing Seramis from Germany and it cost £450 per cubic metre, that was 5 years ago.
What's the danish stuff? where do I get it from and how much is it?
I am in a hurry so I cannot look it up for you but if you google catlitter or moler clay you will eventually end up with a danish company who makes the stuff It is a kind of mixture of clay and diatomacees that the burn.
If you cannot find it ask me later
Göte
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Hi Göte,
you've got me interested. I have been importing Seramis from Germany and it cost £450 per cubic metre, that was 5 years ago.
What's the danish stuff? where do I get it from and how much is it?
Maren
You can buy in bulk here in the UK if you look back and click on the link in my post above to the information I supplied Paul with. The companies website does not seem to be working at the moment. They sent me samples in the past free of charge and the horticultural grade seems slightly larger than the cat littler as they remove many of the smaller particles to cut down on dust. The product is also used as a commercial absorbant for chemical spills as well as cat litter.
Gote, the only thing they add to this companies cat litter is something to make it smell nice and it does not change the PH value. I did have the data sheet somewhere.
Steetley Bentonite and Absorbents Ltd Now called TOLSA
West Carr Road
Retford
Nottinghamshire
DN22 7SW (Road Map)
Tel: 01777 712800
Fax: 01777 700344
[/swww.steetleybentonite.co.uk[s http://www.tolsa.com/index.php?seccion=23&contenido=123&padre=25&idioma=1
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Gote, the only thing they add to this companies cat litter is something to make it smell nice and it does not change the PH value. I did have the data sheet somewhere.
Cat litter or oil absorbent made from crushed aerated concrete has a high pH by itself. I once had it tested at botanical institute in Stockholm. It was impossible to grow most things in it.
Göte
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Gote, the only thing they add to this companies cat litter is something to make it smell nice and it does not change the PH value. I did have the data sheet somewhere.
Cat litter or oil absorbent made from crushed aerated concrete has a high pH by itself. I once had it tested at botanical institute in Stockholm. It was impossible to grow most things in it.
Göte
I'm talking about the PH value of dried Moler Clay supplied by the named company above not aerated concrete. I remember it had a PH value of 6.5. Where did aerated concrete suddenly come from as you are replying to a quote made by me about the company in question?
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I still think Seramis® is the best, when mixed with an equal quantity of Perlite making a total of 80% of the mix.
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Gote, the only thing they add to this companies cat litter is something to make it smell nice and it does not change the PH value. I did have the data sheet somewhere.
Cat litter or oil absorbent made from crushed aerated concrete has a high pH by itself. I once had it tested at botanical institute in Stockholm. It was impossible to grow most things in it.
Göte
I'm talking about the PH value of dried Moler Clay supplied by the named company above not aerated concrete. I remember it had a PH value of 6.5. Where did aerated concrete suddenly come from as you are replying to a quote made by me about the company in question?
I took up the high pH problem in my first post in this thread. Your post (suddenly ;) ) takes up the pH as a function of the additive. I wanted to make clear that it is not the additive that is causing the problem. I did not respond to what you wrote about the Danish company but to what you wrote about pH.
With sudden regards
Göte
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I still think Seramis® is the best, when mixed with an equal quantity of Perlite making a total of 80% of the mix.
Anthony, and what's the remaining 20%? I am confused. ::) ::) ::)
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I still think Seramis® is the best, when mixed with an equal quantity of Perlite making a total of 80% of the mix.
Anthony, and what's the remaining 20%? I am confused. ::) ::) ::)
The organic part, which is 10% orchid bark & 10% sieved loam.
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Anthony,
do you find that your mix with seramis grows better plants than just 80% pure perlite?
Or is the preference aesthetic?
Regards,
David
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I used Seramis® because that is what was recommended by Hardy Orchids Ltd. I changed to 80% Pertlite because I couldn't find Seramis® in the local garden centres. It is quite wet in Dunblane and pure Perlite affords a much lighter compost, better draining. For drier areas Seramis® would retain more moisture. Most of the year I do not need to water my pots except to add liquid feed.
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Thanks Anthony - I too cannot source Seramis easily and it is way too expensive to use for me.
A 100 litre bag of super coarse perlite is still only about £15.
But it can get to be quite a chore watering all the pots.
I may try the low dust Tesco cat litter as a replacement for Seramis.
Say 45% perlite, 45% cat litter and 10% orchid bark.
I have a couple of hybrid divisions that I could use to compare the composts,
Regards,
David
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Just an update on my experience. I am now 3/4 through with my pleione harvest. Pots with cat litter are still wet, those without are not. The cold weather is accelerating the demise of those that weren't up to much. I have now developed an eye for what to expect just by looking at the surface: healthy looking pseudobulb? no cat litter. Blackened or wizened bulbs or no bulbs? cat litter. Works every time. Of course, I blame my watering. - Please take care. :) :o :)