Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Plant Identification => Plant Identification Questions and Answers => Topic started by: Paul T on February 23, 2011, 11:54:11 AM
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Strange subject name I know, but this one is a rather unknown unknown.....
A cutting of this plant was at a local nursery. I have no idea of how large the plant grows to, but I am assuming by the look of it that it is "probably" an annual. It has small white flowers maybe 0.5cm wide and EVERY flower sets fruit it would appear. The fruit matures at about 1cm wide, starting out green and ribbed and maturing to black and smooth. The new growth stem is green, but ages to a reddish colour. Many things about this cutting remind me of Amaranthus, but the flowers and berries are obviously wrong..... but maybe the comparison might help someone picture it. It looks like that freshness of the Amaranthus, if you know what I mean. Given the number of berries I am thinking it is likely a weed too, or at least around here. Rather pretty though.
Any takers on it's identity?
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Paul i think it is Phytolacca americana
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Looks spot on, Davey. Thanks.
So much for being an annual, wikipedia says American Pokeweed is an herbaceous perennial to 10 feet tall. :o Herbaceous and up to 10 feet means that it grows at a phenomenal rate. And apparently a major weed in some places as it is mostly poisonous. I'm thinking that the nursery needs to advise the owner to remove it quick, before the berries get carried everywhere. I'm guessing it is already too late to at least some degree.
Thanks heaps for the name. Only 14 minutes for an ID..... this place is brilliant!! ;D ;D
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Howdy again, All,
I've had private emails as well about this Phytolacca americana as well. Apparently the sap is EXTREMELY toxic and can cause nasty dermatitis that resembles third degree burns. I've given the name to the nursery where I saw it for ID, and warned them of it's invasive and poisonous qualities, as well as the sap irritation aspect. I'm glad I didn't find it here, because I work without gloves in my garden most of the time. :o
Thanks to all for their feedback on this. I hope that whoever has it in their garden removes it promptly and that not too many of the berries have been dispersed already. I just hope it doesn't get too established here, as it sounds like a horror to get rid of.
Thanks again. 8)
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I remember visiting New Zealand many years ago and Phytolacca octandra or Inkweed was quite common, but invasive:
http://www.hear.org/pier/species/phytolacca_octandra.htm (http://www.hear.org/pier/species/phytolacca_octandra.htm)
I don't know how you separate this one from P. americana, but the plant list gives P. americana var mexicana as a synonym, so it must be quite close. I took some seeds with me back to Norway, being interested in edible plants and knowing that P. americana is widely used and considered by many in North America to be one of the tastiest vegetables out there. However, beware because it is a poisonous plant and one must know when to pick and prepare it - see, for example, the bottom of this page: http://www.wildmanstevebrill.com/Plants.Folder/Pokeweed.html (http://www.wildmanstevebrill.com/Plants.Folder/Pokeweed.html)
P. octandra turned out not to be hardy, but I kept it going for a number of years in a pot...
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I hope that whoever has it in their garden removes it promptly and that not too many of the berries have been dispersed already.
I've been growing it for years Paul, it spreads a few seedlings round as the birds like it. Never had any rash trouble, and I don't eat it ;) It almost always appears in large gardens that we visit and I think there are a large number of varieties judging by the inflorescences we see. As far as I am concerned the only problem with it is that the foliage gets a bit shredded towards the end of the season. It has a huge storage root too.
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Brian,
Given that it produces such a sheer number of berries, how aren't there more seedlings about? Just the little cut stem in water at the nursery had probably 100 berries on it, and that was maybe 40cm long. It must produce thousands each year, spread by birds. Cottoneaster has gone crazy by the same method here and is now a declared weed as it is invading bushland. My concern is that this too is going to escape and colonise. Triffids anyone? ;D ;D
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I am aware that the Phytolacca can be a major weed in some areas.... but this also equates, surely, to 'some climates' too? It seems not to be a pest inthe UK areas where it is grown..... just not ideal enough conditions for it to become rampant, I assume.
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I have this variegated cultivar, Silberstein (or speckled poke), but I'm unable to overwinter them here, so they now spend the winter in the cellar.
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This is a super plant with its berries in the autumn.As to being rampant we are just too wet and it never survives a winter here.We have tried it several times and would like to be able to grow it.
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It's been known for decades in Botanic Gardens to be a carrier for most known plant viruses without apparent symptoms. You can infect all sorts of plants from a single Phytolacca americana
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Brian,
Given that it produces such a sheer number of berries, how aren't there more seedlings about? Just the little cut stem in water at the nursery had probably 100 berries on it, and that was maybe 40cm long. It must produce thousands each year, spread by birds. Cottoneaster has gone crazy by the same method here and is now a declared weed as it is invading bushland. My concern is that this too is going to escape and colonise. Triffids anyone? ;D ;D
I think the answer is, as Maggi says, the climate, if we had a climate like yours they could well be a problem.
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I have grown a Phytolacca sp for several years here and it survives the winter without problems. That is till now - I do not know if it has withstood the frozen soil this winter which has been cold and without snow cover.
I do not think it is americana but a Chinese species grown from Chadwell seeds. It has not selfsowed although it set quantities of berries each fall.
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I have seen the new growth beginning on P.americana in our front garden, so it must survive -12℃
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This is a super plant with its berries in the autumn.As to being rampant we are just too wet and it never survives a winter here.We have tried it several times and would like to be able to grow it.
According to US sites, it should go down to -25 to -30C. However, I think Tony is right suggesting it doesn't like winter wet. I have a friend here who did manage to overwinter it and he was growing it in very sandy soil. Think I'll experiment this year and protect the root - I successfully overwinter Opuntias by growing on sand and keeping them dry in winter.
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Yes, our soil is very well-draining so that would seem to fit :)
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In North America where this plant is native, it is an insidious invasive weed that seeds around with wild abandon. Mature plants grow huge and droop under the weight of large clusters of black-purple berries. Birds eat the berries & seeds, and all summer long I find seedlings popping up everywhere on my property. I hate using any chemicals in the garden, but I do use brush-killer to get rid of infestations of this plant and poison ivy, both of which continually re-enter my property from bird droppings. The plant is impossible to pull once past seedling stage, due to a fat forked carrot-like root, plants must be dug out to get the rhizome.
This plant presents a classic paradox, where the medical world's knowledge of the plant's high toxicity collide with the world of homeopathic & herbal treatments, and folklore. The curious thing about many of the homeopathic uses of the plant, is that many of the so-called remedies are for conditions that the plant is known to cause. There is also consider scientific interest in this plant because of many unique chemical properties and compounds in the plant.
I have first hand experience of the plant's toxicity for dermatitis, where I got the sap of broken stems on my arms, followed by huge liquid-filled blisters that looked like 3rd degree burns; I had one arm totally wrapped with gauze for 6 weeks, changing the dressing several times a day until it finally healed.
North American distribution. The FNA link has some interesting discussion:
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=220010427
http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=PHAM4
Random snippets from various sites discussing the toxicity of Phytolacca americana:
Symptoms of poke poisoning include sweating, burning of the mouth and throat, severe gastritis, vomiting, bloody diarrhea, blurred vision, elevated white-blood-cell counts, unconsciousness, and, rarely, death.
"Poke" is thought to come from "pocan" or "puccoon," probably from the Algonquin term for a plant that contains dye.
The berries of Phytolacca americana, more commonly known as American nightshade and pokeweed, are toxic unless thoroughly cooked by boiling in several changes of water. Severe side effects can occur when people eat them raw, add them to juice or do not cook them properly. People can even become poisoned by phytolacca berries if the substance enters the bloodstream through cuts or scrapes on the skin. Drugs.com notes that people historically used phytolacca berries and other parts of the plant to treat rheumatism and to boost the immune system, but no evidence supports these uses.
Gastrointestinal Effects
Eating uncooked phytolacca berries can cause severe stomach cramps, diarrhea, nausea and vomiting. Prolonged vomiting, vomiting blood and passing bloody diarrhea can occur when the amount of berries consumed reaches toxic levels, according to the Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, or MSKCC.
Phytolacca berry toxicity can have many symptoms. As listed by the MSKCC (Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center), these effects include slow and difficult breathing, low blood pressure, rapid heart rate, weakness, muscle spasms and seizures. The American Cancer Society, or ACS, notes that blurred vision, confusion, dermatitis, dizziness and headaches can occur, as well as heart block, a blockage of the electrical impulses that stimulate heart contractions. Consuming phytolacca berries can be fatal.
Considerations for Women
Pregnant and breastfeeding women should never consume phytolacca berries or other parts of the plant. Phytolacca is a uterine stimulant, according to the ACS, and can cause miscarriage or premature labor. Additionally, toxic components of the berries can have negative effects on a developing baby.
The ingestion of half an ounce of the berries or of the root has proved fatal. In large doses it is a depressant to the spinal cord affecting very markedly the medulla oblongata and causing death by carbonic acid poisoning, the result of
cardiac depression and respiratory paralysis.
E. Preston (1884) calls attention to the peculiar and little-known property of phytolacca leaves to emit, in autumn, a phosphorescent light in the dark.
The berries, though poisonous, lose their toxic qualities somewhat when cooked, and some have gone so far as to make pies of the fruit—a practice which, however, should be condemned. Severe purging has followed the eating of the flesh of pigeons which had fed upon the berries.
According to E. H. Cressler (Amer. Jour. Pharm., 1875, p. 196), the inhalation of the powdered root produces soreness of the throat and chest, severe coughing and inflammation of the eyes.
contain toxins that cause dermatitis
All parts, but primarily the roots, are considered poisonous. Small quantities (more than 10) of raw berries can result in serious poisoning of adults. Fatalities in young children can result from the consumption of a few raw berries.
SYMPTOMS: The more common symptoms are gastrointestinal cramps, vomiting, diarrhea, and convulsions in severe cases. Perspiration, prostration, weakened respiration and pulse, salivation, and visual disturbance are possible symptoms. Death may result. Humans experience an immediate burning sensation in the mouth upon consumption. Postmortem: gross lesions: mild to severe gastroenteritis; congestion of internal organs; histological lesions: stomach ulcerations with hemorrhage.
Cooked, young, tender leaves and stems are eaten by some people as a pot-herb. These young greens are the "poke salad" of Southern fame. They contain low concentrations of phytolacca toxin which is destroyed by proper cooking. Cooked berries are edible and occasionally used in pies, Phytolacca americana contains mitogens, compounds that can be absorbed through skin abrasions, causing blood abnormalities. Sensitive individuals should handle pokeweed with gloves. Root preparations have been used as a folk-medicinal, a practice that can be dangerous.
Applied to the skin, either in the form of juice, strong decoction, or poultice of the root, it produces an erythematous, sometimes pustular, eruption.
Phytolacca slows the heart's action, reduces the force of the pulse, and lessens the respiratory movements. It is a paralyzer of the spinal cord, acting principally on the medulla. In poisoning by this agent tetanic convulsions may ensue. Death results from carbonic acid poisoning, the result of respiratory paralysis. Upon the gastro-intestinal tract doses of from 10 to 30 grains of it act as an emetic and drastic cathartic, producing nausea which comes on slowly, amounting almost to anguish, finally after an hour or so, resulting in emesis. It then continues to act upon the bowels, the purging being prolonged for a considerable length of time.
The plant sap can cause dermatitis in sensitive people. The plant contains substances that cause cell division and can damage chromosomes. These substances can be absorbed through any abrasions in the skin, potentially causing serious blood aberratins, and so it is strongly recommended that the people wear gloves when handling the plant.
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How fascinating Mark, and I always thought it such a wonderfully majestic plant when I have seen it. The last good stand was in Copenhagen Botanic Garden.
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I have grown a Phytolacca sp for several years here and it survives the winter without problems. That is till now - I do not know if it has withstood the frozen soil this winter which has been cold and without snow cover.
I do not think it is americana but a Chinese species grown from Chadwell seeds. It has not selfsowed although it set quantities of berries each fall.
Hoy, I also have this plant grown from Chadwell seeds, it is Phytolacca acinosa. I think it is a much better plant than P americana. I find it quite attractive and although it does seed around a little, it is no trouble to keep under control
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Thanks, Diane! I recognise the berries of your plant and I had the idea that mine could be acinosa as well. Now I am quite sure ;D
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Thanks, Diane! I recognise the berries of your plant and I had the idea that mine could be acinosa as well. Now I am quite sure ;D
Ditto!! A much more attractive plant, as you say Diane. Is it the only one that keeps it's berries in that form rather than having them swell into round ones?
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Mark:
I know the plant well. I have it growing around my property. I must have pulled up five plants last year with bare hands without any toxic effects. The berries are very staining. The largest plant must have been almost and inch in diameter.