Morina longifolia

[Hill Farm]

Greetings, all. This is my 1st post in the SRGC forum, though I've been lurking here reading many months, thanks to Kristl's link on the Gardens North page. 

I consider myself a reasonably seasoned seed starter, having operated a small perennial nursery for years & having successfully germinated many, many species...but I find myself stumped with this one.

Morina longifolia - some years ago I grew a batch from seed very successfully, and can't remember having any troubles at all, though germination was quite low.

The past two years I've been trying to get some more of these going, having lost my original small colony (we're borderline for its hardiness here). I've tried seed from three different sources - my own that I had saved, a lot from Chiltern, and a lot from Jelitto. In all cases, these last two years in a row, I get excellent germination very quickly, but the seed caps do not shed and the cotyledons rot off and the sprout dies. I've tried gently pulling off the seed caps with tweezers, nicking the seeds ahead of time, keeping them very humid, covering some seed pots with granite grit and some with soilless peat-based seedling starter mix. I've got one lot under grow lights in the warm, and another lot in the cool greenhouse. Same thing - the seed caps are stuck on as if by glue and the sprouts are now keeling over.

Any ideas? I can't believe this is so complicated. Internet searches reveal no similar tales of woe. As I said, they sprout just fine, very quickly as a matter of fact - within the week. So...?

[Darren]

Welcome to the forum Barb,

This is a lovely plant - one of our favourites. I sow seed from our plants occasionally but never manage to raise many seedlings. I had noticed this behaviour but I was happy to raise just a few seedlings.
I cannot immediately think of anything you have not already tried but will keep thinking about it! My initial reaction was that humidity was too low but you have already experimented with this. One thing that sometimes works with other plants is to not only keep humidity high but to actively soften the seed coat with a drop of water each day - it has worked for Cyclamen with me in the past. Or (more radical idea) how about a smear of moisturiser (the kind you use on your skin) ?!

[Brian Ellis]

Hello Barb, welcome to the forum, I'm glad you have stopped lurking!  Yes I have grown Morina in the past, one of my favourites and was used by the Victorians as a bedding plant!  I tracked some plants down about 15 years ago and put them in, only to have them uprooted by my partner as he thought they were thistles   Subsequently grew a batch from seed, as you say, the germination wasn't that good, but what did germinate had the seed capsule remained on the cotyledons.  I gently took them off as soon as I could, by hand, and lost one or two, but generally they were them fine.  My patch has dwindled down to one plant so I may have to start again.  The problem seems to be the hardness of the seed capsule, so I wonder whether it is worth a good soak first?  Good luck and keep us posted please.

[olegKon]

Welcome to the forum, Barb.
I grew my first  Morina longifolia plants from seed sown indoors in spring and half of the seedlings died for the reason you've described. When my plants produced seed I sowed them in a container outside in autumn and left exposed to the weather which seems to be similar to yours. That time I had no problems either with germination or with stuck capsules. Are you carageous enough to try?

[Hjalmar]

I just sowed Morina longifolia once but had no trouble at all with them. I sowed them in late winter and kept the pots outside without any protection, in spring they germinated very well. Maybe freezing temperatures help to break up the seed capsules?

[Stephenb]

It self-sows fine here so I suspect Hjalmar is right...

[Hill Farm]

Thank you for all the answers. Yes, the seed coats seems extra hard, or perhaps "tough" is a better term? They definitely don't like to pop off, I am having to tug with my tweezers and the cotyledons do not like that at all. 

I just looked at my seed flats again, and have one or two that look like they might be viable, but as I planted over 100 seeds this time round and had hoped for a good quantity of seedlings I am very disappointed - most are rotting.

I think that the freeze/thaw may indeed be what's needed. I am going to order another batch from Jelitto this summer and leave them out over winter. It's a lovely plant; I am partial to the "thistles" myself, though of course when it blooms all resemblance is lost!

I don't feel so alone now; thank you for sharing your experiences. Marvelous forum.

[Maggi Young]

I see you are in Hardiness zone 4, Barb...... that get pretty chilly! An outdoor overwinter stratification may be  the answer but I wonder.... do you get reliable snow cover?  Your possible low temps are lower than many of us would get and without snow cover it might be tough on those seeds. What plants can you stratify outdoors in your area?

[Hill Farm]

Hello, Maggi.

Yes, it definitely gets chilly here! Typically we have lows in the minus 30s (Celsius) most winters. We've just come through a week of minus 20s C temps, but today it is +2C; "fluctuating temperatures" is an understatement!  We expect at least another 6-8 weeks of cold weather and snow, before spring slowly starts in April. Snow cover varies year to year, but we usually have enough to keep the perennials safe. Close to 2 feet of it out there this year - nice cozy blanket.

I'm always thrilled when I succeed at growing things generally rated for Zone 5 or 6, but over the years have come to realize that hardiness ratings are arbitrary designations and are often as conservative as they are sometimes optimistic.

I've often used winter outdoor stratification for tricky species, but as Morina was such a fast germinater at warm I never really considered it. But it may be the answer to the tough seed coat issue? I think that the greatest danger for seeds is the fast-freeze if they are put out from house temperature to below zero; for this reason I make sure I set my flats out in the fall before hard freezes, and I often shovel extra snow over the cold frame area; in January you'll see me out there digging around looking for my seed trays so I can bring them in to the newly heated and still quite cold seedling greenhouse. Being in the middle of British Columbia's interior forest region, we heat with firewood, which in itself leads to fluctuations in temperature in the greenhouses, which I suspect the perennial seedlings and plants find quite beneficial as it mimics outside spring conditions.

Ever learning!

[Maggi Young]

a week of minus 20s C temps, but today it is +2C; "fluctuating temperatures" is an understatement!

Goodness me, that is a big swing.... can't be good for anyone, humans or plants!