Allium for IDing

[TheOnionMan]

Arisaema. what species is shown in your cut-away close-up?  I see that it has an appendage or crest on the end of the ovary.

Sorry, it's a tiny Polygonatum species from DaxueShan, not an Allium, but I figured that's the kind of picture you needed

Phew, if it had been an Allium it would have rocked my collective understanding of the genus, because no allium has stamens emerging and adnate to the petals so far down along the length of the petals as seen in your cutaway.  Nice little Polygonatum species; aside from the declining aspect of the leaves, it looks something like P. roseum:  http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=593.msg9079#msg9079

[TheOnionMan]

Are the crests in your lower photo the remains of the anthers/

Thanks for posting those closeups Mark.  Still too hard to tell.  No, the crests on Allium cernuum and stellatum are merely tooth-like bumps at the tip of the ovary, typically one such bump or tooth per "locule" (individual chamber of section of the developing ovary/capsule).  The bumps or crests become more pronounced and elongated when the capsule fully develops and the floral parts wither away.

On your photo, if you inspect and dissect very closely, my guess is, the anthers that appear to be coming from the ovary are in fact the remains of the inner stamens "invested" or adpressing themselves against the ovary, but if the parts are pulled apart under a magnifying lens, you could see that the stamen and anther are in fact "free" and not attached to the ovary.

I found a closeup photo of A. cyathophorum at late anthesis, in the upper left showing a round ovary/developing capsule (no teeth or crests):
http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=87640&flora_id=800
...more photo links here:
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200027468

Drawing of Allium cyathophorum and A. macranthum, floral detail #7 shows the toothed broadened inner filaments on the stamens of Allium cyathophorum:
http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=60225&flora_id=2

Mark, when the flowers have fully faded and leaving behind the developing or mature seed capsules while still "in the green" and not fully dried, show us again what the capsule looks like, to see if there are any crests present.

[TheOnionMan]

Found an image of Allium cernuum that is just at the stage where the ovaries and developing seed capsules are still "in the green" and not fully dried yet, and you can clearly see the pointy crests at the apex of the ovary or developing capsule.  At this stage, one can also see the drying remains of the petals "investing" or tightly enclosing the developing capsule, as well as the remains of the style atop the capsules.

[pehe]

From the seed exchange 2010 I got seeds of this allium under the name Allium callimischon. Now it is flowering and it is certainly not callimischon. Can anyone identify?

Poul

[mark smyth]

Poul I think your answer is here already. Your plant looks like mine

[TheOnionMan]

Poul, Mark is correct, the answer is already here... the plant looks like our old friend, Allium cyathophorum var. farreri.  If one were to grow 100 different Allium species from the seed exchanges, or even seed from botanic gardens, perhaps 25% would end up being this species.

[pehe]

Thank you Mark & Mark,

I had to admit that I didn't read the full thread before posting

Poul