Liquid Smoke - South African seeds

[Diane Whitehead]

The first time I tried using smoke to enhance germination of South
African Ericas and Proteas, I sowed them in aluminum foil pans
which I put into the firebox of my woodstove, that was smoky
because I had just put out a small fire of green branches and leaves.
 Somehow, the peaty compost started to smoulder, so it was smokier
than I expected. I can't remember any great success - certainly I have
no plants from the experience.

Last October I sowed six kinds of South African ericas using Liquid Smoke
(the natural mesquite flavoured one) at a 1 to 9 dilution. I divided each
kind in two and soaked one set overnight, while the other set was not soaked.
Instead, I sprinkled the seeds on the surface and watered them in with the
same concentration of Liquid Smoke.  I should have sown a control set with
no smoke, but didn't.  I will do that now.

They were up within a month and have been under a fluorescent light 16 hours
a day in an unheated room ever since.  They are slow growing.

The species were sown in the same position in two 6-cell containers, so the
partners are in rows 1 (soaked) and 3 (watered), and 2 (soaked) and 4 (watered). 
There are some noticeable differences:

These ones did better when just watered in:
Rows 1 and 3: top - Erica plukenettii (did not germinate when soaked),
middle  - E. glauca var elegans, bottom  - E. abietina ssp abietina.

One did better when soaked:
Rows 2 and 4 bottom - E. curviflora

There wasn't much difference with E. discolor and E. viscaria ssp longifolia.

It was a much easier experience this time, and most grocery stores have
little bottles of liquid smoke.

[shelagh]

At the last Ponteland Show I remember having a conversation about this with Sue Gill another forumist, and I'm sure she said Lapsang suchong tea worked very well. If you're watching Sue perhaps you could confirm this.

[crazy4alpines]

This subject got my search fingers busy since I was interested in trying the Liquid Smoke treatment with some Penstemon seeds.  The most interesting and recent article I found (see below link) appears to suggest that optimum results are achieved by soaking the seeds in a 1:500 or 1:1000 dilution of Liquid Smoke.

The 1:1000 dilution also popped up in the text blurbs from some search engine results linked to some web sites which I could not access (due to password requirements or those requiring academic membership accounts).  I am glad you brough up this topic Diane to stimulate my interest.  It now looks like I will try the 1:1000 dilution of Liquid Smoke with those Penstemon seeds I have received from past SRGC and NARGS surplus seed exchanges.  I will also expose a portion of seeds to some form of heat treatment before soaking for comparison.  Do check out the following pdf format link for seed germination of chaparral species and notice how heat treatment of some sort is still important with some species.

http://www.werc.usgs.gov/seki/pdfs/K2005_Seed%20Germination%20Sierra_Madrono.pdf

I hope others find this information useful.

[Diane Whitehead]

I enjoyed the article.  I find it instructive to see how others structure their experiments. I sympathize with their trying to measure the temperature in different parts of the oven when they put aluminum foil pans in.  Even so, the oven temp may not have been the same as the temp inside the pans where the seeds were - one memorable Thanksgiving I cooked the turkey in a brand new shiny aluminum roaster - it was still uncooked at midnight because the shiny pan reflected the heat away from the bird.  By then I had hacked off pieces and boiled them.

The liquid smoke they used was "highly concentrated" which is why they diluted it so much.  Mine was not -the instructions say to pour it directly on the meat to be marinated.

Have you had problems with germinating penstemon seeds?  The Penstemon Society says that old seeds germinate better than new ones.

[crazy4alpines]

I found the concept of heating seeds in the oven slightly alarming.  However, I often place seeds inside a spring clamp type tea ball strainer which is then dipped/stirred very briefly into boiling water for only 3 to 10 seconds, depending on the size and wall thickness of the seeds.  I have used this method before soaking/sowing only for medium to large size seeds and it does improve their germination.

I tried germinating just a few Penstemons 2 years ago for the first time and remember that most required long refrigeration times.  They were still quite small when I planted them out in May and had to locate them in a less sunny area and baby sit them (moisture wise) until their roots got going.  Then I transplanted them very early in 2007 to more desirable sunny locations, but only a couple were developed enough to bloom this year.

I was hoping to have bigger seedlings this time by finding a way to reduce the required refrigeration period to just 3 weeks if possible by using the 1:1000 liquid smoke soak method.  I know I should have started them sooner and I was going to wait until next fall on these Penstemons, but after reading the mentioned article I decided to get them going in a couple days after I track down the Liquid Smoke in the store.

[shelagh]

I have just looked up 'Liquid Smoke', are we really talking about a marinade ingredient, either mesquite or hickory, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

[Diane Whitehead]

Yep, the stuff you pour on your pork chops so they taste like they've
been barbecued.

[rob krejzl]

Partway down the page: http://www.jungleseeds.co.uk/SeedOrders/index1.html