'Heritage' hoops?

[Matt T]

Here's a question... When did the hybridisation of hoop petticoat/Div. 10 Narcissus start?

I know that Douglas Blanchard's 'Fabric Group' are registered as pre-1949 ('Nylon Group'), pre-1952 (i.e. 'Muslin', 'Taffeta' etc.) and 1960 ('Poplin'). Are they the first, or were there any bulbocodium hybrids/hybridisers that we know of before then?

I know that these are promiscuous plants and hybridisation is par for the course, but I'm interested in hearing about named cultivars (whether clone, grex or strain/line).

Thanks!

[fermi de Sousa]

Kenellis was bred by Alec Gray pre 1948 (on Daffseek: N.bulbocodium ssp bulbocodium var citrinus x N. Snowflake).
cheers
fermi

[Matt T]

Thanks Fermi.
I don't know how I forgot about 'Kenellis', and it's one I have in my own collection! 
Just realised I can search Daffseek using the criteria Division "10" and Year registered "194# or earlier", which is really helpful.
Cheers,
M

[Matt T]

My research into the early hoop petticoats has continued and I have dug up a few treasures from Division 10. I arbitrarily set myself a cut-off point of 1979 and before - it seemed to be a natural stopping point in the registration/introduction dates and fits with what I’d understand to be a “classic”.

I found that I’m already growing a fair few of the hybrids that are more readily available, including:

Kenellis, 1948
Nylon Group, 1949 - a group of unselected seedlings
Muslin, 1952
Taffeta, 1952
Julia Jane, 1966 - a named selection from N. romieuxii rather than a hybrid

Others appear to be extinct or at least very elusive to date. Does anyone have any information on these hybrids apparently lost to cultivation? Or perhaps a forgotten panful lurking away at the back of a bulb frame?? They include:
 
Corbel, 1926 - rare/lost?
White Surf, 1950 - I can’t find anything on this one, was from N. Ireland, any local knowledge?
Netia, 1962 - rare/lost?
Bayonne, 1964 - a selection of N. bulbocodium var. citrinus, rare/lost?
Brocade, 1974 - rare/lost?
Fanflare, 1979 - considered to be extinct

There are a few others that appear to still be out there. Can you shed any light on these:

Trimon Group, 1899 - a selection from N. x ligitiosus (syn. N. x susannae), but has this named selection become muddled with other selections/hybrids?
Elfhorn, 1948 - is anyone growing/supplying this?
Jessamy, 1952 - from the same stable as the ‘fabric group’, a few folk seem to have this in their collections?
Tarlatan, 1952 - one of Blanchard’s ‘fabric group’, I think this is in Aus?
Poplin, 1960 - appears to be in the US, but anywhere else?
Tiffany, 1960 - is perhaps in Aus too?

If anyone can add any information to the above I’d be very grateful.

Thanks all, M

[David Nicholson]

Matt,  I have Jessemy, obtained last year (I think?) from Arnold T. I'll pass some bulbs on to you at next repotting.

[Matt T]

Thanks David, that would be most kind.

Many of these hybrids, including Blanchard's fabric group seem to be rare in cultivation in the UK but are being maintained elsewhere, particularly in Australia and the US I think. At least, that's what my research suggest so far. It's interesting that they have almost been lost here where most of them originated.

Of course, it may be that they're not 'good' plants but they must have been selected for some merit. Many are very attractive plants from the photos I've seen (Jessamy particularly so), but they could be weak growers liable to dying out or being old clones may have succumbed to a build up of viruses.

In time it would be nice to build up a collection of these early cultivars that remain.

[Matt T]

Discovered a good number of old hoop petticoat cultivars in flower in the Wisley alpine house on 2 January, including:

Narcissus 'Nylon Group'
Narcissus 'Taffeta'
Narcissus 'Jessamy'
Narcissus 'Tarlatan'

Apologies for the poor quality photos, but I was using a small 'pocket' camera, which is not as good as my usual one.

[annew]

I missed this thread until now! Interesting question, unfortunately I don't have any of the older varieties.

[Matt T]

It was a nice surprise to see so many held at Wisley. The 'fabric series' all looked very similar, a short visit meant it was difficult to appreciate the finer differences that become evident as you become more acquainted with a plant you actually grow yourself. However, both 'Jessamy' and 'Tarlatan' stood out as being particularly fine plants that would stand up in any collection today.

[WNOETULIP]

"Many of these hybrids, including Blanchard's fabric group seem to be rare in cultivation in the UK but are being maintained elsewhere, particularly in Australia and the US I think. At least, that's what my research suggest so far. It's interesting that they have almost been lost here where most of them originated. "

Until relatively recently Daffodil exhibitors showed very little interest in miniature and intermediate sized cultivars. Fortunately that has now changed. Also AGS enthusiasts 'favoured' species rather than hybrids and so many of the hybrids raised by Alec Gray and more recent ones raised by John Blanchard and others found their way to the USA and Australasia. This didn't just apply to Division 10 cultivars but also to ones from other divisions such as 'Crevette' and 'Shillingstone' raised by JB. A sister seedling to the latter has now found its way back to the UK and has been named as 'Peseta' (pun intended). I will post a photo of this when in flower as it has four flower spikes on already.