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pulsatilla : grandis/ vulgaris/ patens
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Topic: pulsatilla : grandis/ vulgaris/ patens (Read 1659 times)
Catwheazle
Hero Member
Posts: 613
Country:
USDA zone 6a
pulsatilla : grandis/ vulgaris/ patens
«
on:
April 05, 2016, 09:26:31 AM »
Hi, can someone simply ! explain to me, what the difference is between P. Vulgaris, grandis and patens? I read lot of papers, but couldn't understand.
Regards
Bernd
«
Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 11:18:16 AM by Maggi Young
»
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Si hortum in bibliotheca habes, deerit nihil» Cicero, Ad Familiares IX,4
Catwheazle
Hero Member
Posts: 613
Country:
USDA zone 6a
Re: pulsatilla : grandis/ vulgaris/ patens
«
Reply #1 on:
April 05, 2016, 08:01:33 PM »
as seen in "Schmeil Fitschen: Flora von Deutschland" : vulgaris and vulgaris ssp. grandis .... probably the same.
BUT :-( patens shoud be different with te leaves
??
Does someone have Pictures of the leaves?
Remark: i found a very helpful Picture by Olga Bondarewa with Pulsatilla leaves:
1 Pulsatilla flavescens from Irkutsk
2 P. campanella
3 P. tatewakii
4 P. vulgaris
5 P. nuttaliana
6 P. georgica
7 P. patens
8 P. taraoi
9 P. chinensis
10 P. halleri. 'Budapest'
11 P. pratensis ssp. nigricans
12 P. dahurica
13 P. flavescens
14 P. cernua
15 P. ambigua
16 P. albana
17 Pulsatilla sp. ambigua group
18 P. subslavica
19 Pulsatilla sp. pratensis group
20 P. multifida
I have written Olga and asked her if I can post their photos here.
Bernd
«
Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 08:14:09 PM by Catwheazle
»
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Si hortum in bibliotheca habes, deerit nihil» Cicero, Ad Familiares IX,4
Maggi Young
Forum Dogsbody
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Posts: 44777
Country:
"There's often a clue"
Re: pulsatilla : grandis/ vulgaris/ patens
«
Reply #2 on:
April 05, 2016, 08:15:55 PM »
See here :
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=13047.msg338350#msg338350
and here:
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=13047.msg333794#msg333794
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Margaret Young in Aberdeen, North East Scotland Zone 7 -ish!
Editor: International Rock Gardener e-magazine
Catwheazle
Hero Member
Posts: 613
Country:
USDA zone 6a
Re: pulsatilla : grandis/ vulgaris/ patens
«
Reply #3 on:
April 06, 2016, 08:06:53 AM »
Shame on me ..... so I very badly wanted :-(
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Si hortum in bibliotheca habes, deerit nihil» Cicero, Ad Familiares IX,4
Karaba
Sr. Member
Posts: 468
Country:
Re: pulsatilla : grandis/ vulgaris/ patens
«
Reply #4 on:
April 06, 2016, 08:51:37 AM »
I don't have any of these species except
vulgaris
but here's what I found
You may find some great pictures and descriptions here :
Pulsatilla grandis :
http://botany.cz/en/pulsatilla-grandis/
Pulsatilla patens multifida :
http://botany.cz/en/pulsatilla-patens-multifida/
Pulsatilla pratensis :
http://botany.cz/en/pulsatilla-pratensis/
Pulsatilla grandis
is sometimes refered as
Pulsatilla vulgaris
ssp.
grandis
or even
Pulsatilla halleri
ssp.
grandis
. From
here
,
P. grandis
as less dissected leaves than
P. vulgaris
(<40 lobes for the former, >100 for
vulgaris
), also, leaves of
P. grandis
appear after blooming while appearing with flower for
P. vulgaris
. Both are closed to
P. pratensis
. In France, there are three other closed species :
P. halleri
,
montana
and
rubra
.
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Yvain Dubois - Isère, France (Zone 7b) _ south east Lyon
Maggi Young
Forum Dogsbody
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Posts: 44777
Country:
"There's often a clue"
Re: pulsatilla : grandis/ vulgaris/ patens
«
Reply #5 on:
April 06, 2016, 11:30:24 AM »
I forgot to mention that Gabriel B has good photo of P. patens foliage here :
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=13047.msg337650#msg337650
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Margaret Young in Aberdeen, North East Scotland Zone 7 -ish!
Editor: International Rock Gardener e-magazine
Tristan_He
Hero Member
Posts: 1223
Country:
Re: pulsatilla : grandis/ vulgaris/ patens
«
Reply #6 on:
April 06, 2016, 10:33:48 PM »
Maggi is it possible to post a larger version of Olga's very useful photo so the details are clearer?
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Maggi Young
Forum Dogsbody
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Posts: 44777
Country:
"There's often a clue"
Re: pulsatilla : grandis/ vulgaris/ patens
«
Reply #7 on:
April 07, 2016, 10:55:01 AM »
I think we did ask Olga for that a while ago and I will ask again - but remember that forum file size restrictions come into play. Try enlarging the existing image by holding down "ctrl" and scrolling the mouse button forwards - that gives reasonable idea of shapes and if you marry that with descriptions re hairs etc it should help.
From Olga Bondareva :
Pulsatilla leaves
Pulsatilla leaves:
1 Pulsatilla flavescens from Irkutsk
2 P. campanella
3 P. tatewakii
4 P. vulgaris
5 P. nuttaliana
6 P. georgica
7 P. patens
8 P. taraoi
9 P. chinensis
10 P. halleri. 'Budapest'
11 P. pratensis ssp. nigricans
12 P. dahurica
13 P. flavescens
14 P. cernua
15 P. ambigua
16 P. albana
17 Pulsatilla sp. ambigua group
18 P. subslavica
19 Pulsatilla sp. pratensis group
20 P. multifida
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Margaret Young in Aberdeen, North East Scotland Zone 7 -ish!
Editor: International Rock Gardener e-magazine
Olga Bondareva
Hero Member
Posts: 954
Country:
Re: pulsatilla : grandis/ vulgaris/ patens
«
Reply #8 on:
April 07, 2016, 11:24:34 AM »
Better size.
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Olga Bondareva, Moscow, Zone 3
Olga Bondareva
Hero Member
Posts: 954
Country:
Re: pulsatilla : grandis/ vulgaris/ patens
«
Reply #9 on:
April 07, 2016, 11:25:58 AM »
Hmmm... not better.
OK, here is the bigger image.
https://pp.vk.me/c625120/v625120879/37f62/osvZdFqacG8.jpg
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Olga Bondareva, Moscow, Zone 3
Diane Clement
the people's Pepys
Hero Member
Posts: 2162
Country:
gone to seed
Re: pulsatilla : grandis/ vulgaris/ patens
«
Reply #10 on:
April 07, 2016, 11:40:47 AM »
Quote from: Olga Bondareva on April 07, 2016, 11:25:58 AM
OK, here is the bigger image.
That's really useful, thanks Olga
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Diane Clement, Wolverhampton, UK
Director, AGS Seed Exchange
Tristan_He
Hero Member
Posts: 1223
Country:
Re: pulsatilla : grandis/ vulgaris/ patens
«
Reply #11 on:
April 07, 2016, 06:40:22 PM »
Quote from: Olga Bondareva on April 07, 2016, 11:25:58 AM
OK, here is the bigger image.
Much better! Thanks!
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