A few pics plus Narcissus question

[Alex]

A few pics from today you might like:

a Crocus cvijicii from Janis demonstrating they do offset!
Iris winogradowii (I must admit in my possession less than a week - my father has 4 or 5 pots like this from one original bulb!)
a corner of the greenhouse showing some of the Leonticoides Corydalis starting up

The final two are of a plant I've been growing for a few years as Narcissus cantabricus petunioides, with a romieuxii going over next to it in the last one. The stock originates from David Sampson's former nursery in Sussex, and may have come from Tilebarn Nursery in Kent before that, but I'm not completely sure of that. I've always wondered whether it's really bright white enough to be the real thing - any thoughts? How valid or consistent is the designation 'petunioides" anyway? I understand it doesn't come true from seed, so is it a single clonal selection made years ago?

Cheers,

Alex

[Gerry Webster]

The final two are of a plant I've been growing for a few years as Narcissus cantabricus petunioides, with a romieuxii going over next to it in the last one. The stock originates from David Sampson's former nursery in Sussex, and may have come from Tilebarn Nursery in Kent before that, but I'm not completely sure of that. I've always wondered whether it's really bright white enough to be the real thing - any thoughts? How valid or consistent is the designation 'petunioides" anyway? I understand it doesn't come true from seed, so is it a single clonal selection made years ago?
Cheers,
Alex

Alex - this looks very like the photo of 'petunioides' in John Blanchard's book of which I posted a scan in an earlier Narcissus thread where this clone was discussed. I wonder if your plant came originally from Elizabeth Strangman (Washfield Nursery, Kent)? She had plants from the original clone - I know because I had one from her  years ago & killed it almost immediately.

[tonyg]

Hi Alex
I reckon you can call that 'petunioides'   And I'd be very happy to go on a list for a spare bulb!  (Hopefully i can provide a suitable swap.)
I have had seed labelled as N cantabricus var petunioides several times.  It has never produced a flower anything like as good as that.  However I have had a plant from seed that had a very flat 'face' although on a more compact plant.  This came from seed listed as N cantabricus clusii which produced a 'normal' cantabricus on every other seedling.  Perhaps it is just a form that occurs naturally but only rarely.  If that is the case then increase by offset will be the only way to keep it uniform and pure.  Lets try some seed from yours and see what happens.

Below are 'normal' Narcissus cantabricus cantabricus and the petunioid form of Narcissus cantabricus clusii.  Hopefully someone with the relevant literature/knowledge to hand will tell us if 'clusii' is a valid name.  (Gerry - are you there?

[Gerry Webster]

Below are 'normal' Narcissus cantabricus cantabricus and the petunioid form of Narcissus cantabricus clusii.  Hopefully someone with the relevant literature/knowledge to hand will tell us if 'clusii' is a valid name.  (Gerry - are you there?

Tony - Yes I'm here, though I'm certainly no expert on Narcissus. Blanchard makes no mention of 'clusii'. Ron Beeston (AGS Bull. June 2000) refers to,  illustrates & commends "N. cantabricus subsp. clusii". According to the Kew Monocot Checklist N. clusii(1847) is a synonym for N. cantabricus subsp. cantabricus; I presume that 'clusii' is just a good, selected form of this. Whatever the correct name, all these plants are delightful.
Edit 3.2.09 I was mistaken; Blanchard does mention N.clusii & regards it as a synonym for N. cantabricus subsp. cantabricus.

[tonyg]

Thanks Gerry - that is what I thought but I did not have the references.  N cantabricus clusii as I have grown it is indistinguishable from N cantabricus cantabricus, apart from that petunioid seedling of course!

[annew]

It's a beautiful form, Alex.

[Alex]

Thanks for thoughts, I'm glad you think it may be consistent with pet., although of course only way to be sure would be to prove descent from a known clone. To that end it may have come from Washfield, David Sampson used to work there around the time he got this clone I think.

I would be happy to give you a bulb at repotting time, Tony, just remind me in a few months and send me your address. It bulks up quite readily, whatever it is!

Alex

[David Nicholson]

Lovely pot of Iris winowgradowii too Alex.

[Lesley Cox]

I had the true petunioides very many years ago - probably 45 at least - but lost it eventually. I see in Archibald's latest seedlist he lists it and says only a portion will come true to form and only these few can legitimately be called 'Petunioides.' Immediately there is a problem in the making because in the first place, true plants from seed suggests a strain, not a clone and second, will everyone who raises this seed understand that only the wide, white, flat forms can bear the "clonal" name. I doubt it. An Australian friend who raised Archibald's seed several years ago had several NOT true to form but still has them as 'Petunioides.'

[Alex]

Justfor interest, Corydalis popovii starting, not yet at its peak, the Narcissus cantabricus petunioides I posted a few days ago for ID with more flowers, and the final one is a Crocus paschei single corm bought just last Autumn with 5 flowers, and that's just for starters. Real value for money (I realise it's a vigorous sp.!) - and the vendor? A (nominally) religious gentleman with a reputation for selling less size-advantaged material - who would have guessed?

Alex

[tonyg]

Good move - I nearly suggested it.  Still drooling over the N c petunioides.

[Alex]

If you mean mine I have you down for a bulb in the Summer.

Alex

[tonyg]

We'll make a swap hopefully

[Alex]

Sounds good!