Scutellaria helenae?

[Lori S.]

I've been wondering about the identity of this scutellaria, which I acquired labelled as Scutellaria helenae.  Does anyone recognize it?  I wonder if it is not actually S. orientalis var. pinnatifida, from the leaf shape?   (It seems it would not be S. alpina 'Moonbeam', though the flower colour is similar, as it doesn't have the S. alpina leaves.)  Can anyone suggest where I might find a description of S. helenae?

For the longest time, I couldn't find any photos or description of S. helenae on the internet, but looking again just now, I found this.  If it is representative, the leaves certainly don't match my plant (let alone the flower colour).
http://www.abkhaziagov.org/ru/state/nature/Scutellaria%20helenae_REDO_600.jpg

Thank you for any help!

[Lori S.]

Well, I think I will conclude that the plant is indeed some form of S. orientalis....?

[Maggi Young]

I'm sorry I'm not any help, Lori.... I'd have thought someone could chip in who knows about Scutellaria....       Intersting plant.... I like the furriness allied to that soft colour. Height, spread?

[Lori S.]

No problem, Maggi!  The flowering stems on this plant get to about 12 cm (5 in), and after a few years, it's about 25 cm (10 in) across.  I'll try to collect seeds this summer, in case it is of interest to anyone!

[Sinchets]

Lori- it doesn't look to have divided enough leaves to be Scutellaria orientalis var pinnatifida
http://media.photobucket.com/image/Scutellaria%2Borientalis%2Bvar.%2Balpina%2Bpic/Jeanne_6OH/S%20plants/scutorientalispinnatifida.jpg
but it also doesn't look like the plant I have been growing as S.alpina 'Moonbeam'. I found a pic of S.orientalis alpina
http://vanherbaryum.yyu.edu.tr/flora/famgenustur/la/sc/al/pages/Scutellaria%20orientalis%20L_%20subsp_%20alpina%20(BOISS_)%20O_%20SCHWARZ%20var_alpina%20%20%20%20_jpg.htm
which seems to have similar leaves to yours- but they are dried up herbarium specimens.
Simon

[Lori S.]

Thank you for your comments, Sinchet. 
In searching again, I stumbled upon the following key, which I will try to apply.  Salvation!  (Errrr, possibly!)
http://vanherbaryum.yyu.edu.tr/flora/famgenustur/la/sc/sa/index.htm
 
It says (italics added for emphasis):
"S. orientalis L., Sp. PI. 598 (1753). i0 ' ~'yJ^J
A very variable suffrutescent perennial herb, usually repent at base. Stems 5-45 cm, obscurely tetragonal. Leaves distinctly petiolate, lamina ovate-elliptic to linear, 5-30 mm, usually obtuse, cuneate or attenuate (rarely truncate) at base, (with rare exceptions) 1.5-2 x as long as broad, weakly crenate to incised-pinnatifid or pectinate-pinnatifid, glabrous to densely canescent-tcmentose, often markedly discolorous. Inflorescence a terminal spike with tetragonal ranks of flowers (not secund), usually dense with ± imbricate bracts; bracts very variable in size and shape but often either pale greenish or deeply purple-tinged, sessile. Corolla 20-32 mm, usually yellow, sometimes reddish-spotted or with red upper or lower lip or entirely pink, bright red, brick-red or purplish, ± pubescent. Nutlets oblong, tomentellous.
A polymorphic complex extending from Spain and N.W. Africa to Sinkiang. The following 16 subspecies have been recognised mainly by a combination of characters of habit, height and mode of branching of stem, shape and degree of incision of leaves, leaf indumentum, size and shape of bracts and corolla colour. Where appropriate, the distribution of the subspecies within Turkey has been cited in a parenthesis in the key. Short descriptions are given as a further aid to correct identification. Some material cannot be accommodated within the subspecies as presently delimited, and examples of such specimens have been cited which fall outside the range of measurements etc. given in the descriptions. The existence of such morphological intermediates prompted me to adopt a broad species concept in this group."

[Sinchets]

Hi again- I don't know if you have been following any of the other threads such as Scilla, Muscari or  Narcissus- but in these genera it seems all a plant has to do is 'look  at you in a funny way' and it becomes  new species. Meanwhile in the land of Scutellaria orientalis we are led to believe that wholly dissimilar plants are all part of 1 species. I grow subsp. bornmuelleri and subsp. haussknechtii, both from Turkey, but both in my opinion completely different to each other in so many ways. Good luck with your key- yours is a beauty whatever its name.
Simon

[Lori S.]

Ha ha, I guess the lumpers prevail with respect to Scutellaria!  Very interesting observation, Sinchets! 
After a cursory read through the key, I'm inclined to agree with you that it may well be S. orientalis alpina.
Thank you so much for your interest.

[Sinchets]

Not a problem. The Labiates are a family I am very interested in and I have quite a large collection of Salvias, Nepetas and Dracoephalums

[Lori S.]

I am very much a generalist and have only a smattering of each (not necessarily alpine species).  It would be fascinating if you would begin a thread on each genus (in the appropriate forum) -  I would love to see your collection!

[Sinchets]

Maybe a Labiate thread would be a good idea instead of in Flowering now. We still have snow here though- so are a long way from having any in flower.

[Lesley Cox]

That's a good idea, there are so many fine plants for rock gardens, all the origanums, thymes for instance. But remember, if naming a new thread, it's Lamiaceae now.

[Sinchets]

But remember, if naming a new thread, it's Lamiaceae now.

Thanks Lesley