2012 Site 2

[TC]

Fascinating plants.  I did not know you could get them any farther than the South coast

I spent several holidays in Crete , Rhodes, Cyprus, Corfu and mainland Greece photographing Bee Orchids.  Even armed with the best field guides, I could not identify many of the plants with certainty.  There were so many variables within the group.  I came to the conclusion that many of the named "sub-species"were actually just standard variations within the group.  Maybe just to satisfy the ego of the author !

[ronm]

So each flower, even on the same plant, has individual markings? No two Ophyris apifera flowers are the same?

Can anyone help me understand why this should be the case please?

[fredg]

maggi asked  why the flowers had eveolved to attract bees if the flowers are self- fertile

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

While we research that, this is worth a read 
http://independent.academia.edu/RichardBateman/Papers/1240239/Conflicting_species_concepts_underlie_perennial_taxonomic_controversies_in_Ophrys

[fredg]

 Some interesting information in these.
It's not so much what she looks like it's the way she smells.

Evolution of sexual mimicry in the orchid subtribe orchidinae: the role of preadaptations in the attraction of male bees as pollinators
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2267782/?tool=pubmed

Integrating past and present studies on Ophrys
pollination – a comment on Bradshaw et al.
http://homepages.ulb.ac.be/~nvereeck/PDF's/Vereecken_et_al_2011_Comment_Bradshaw.pdf

Why sexually deceptive orchids have colored flowers
http://www.landesbioscience.com/journals/cc/SpaetheCIB3-2.pdf

[Neil]

And what his advice is to call it WIND AIDED SELF POLLINATION and i am all for that.

Its like me using a cocktail stick to to a self pollination, it is just a different mechanism of it occurring.

[ronm]

Sorry Davey .....but how did I get dragged into this ( i hope it still is a ... ) friendly discussion? I haven't said anything on this thread for two pages and then it was a gentle enquiry, and a thanks to you both for information provided.
But as I'm here it seems you both know exactly what you are talking about and are both saying the same thing. Nobody has mentioned the two genera of bees that are often quoted, apparently wrongly....
Edit - I stand corrected. It was mentioned earlier in the thread as this quote,

Quote from: David Lang :- Britain's Orchids
"Although nearly always self-pollinated, pollination by bees of the genera Andrena and Eucera may occur rarely."
Maybe we should focus our energies on tracking down some explanation to Maggis question then?

[ronm]

Cheers Davey. 
I am more than capable of starting my own unwarranted arguements ... 

Wish we had a shake hands emoticon.

p.s. are all O. apifera flowers unique? .......please 

[Maggi Young]

This thread was getting rather heated - not what we want,  so those posts arguing are gone.
I hope all concerned can kiss and make-up.

I've said it before, I'll say it again here : play nicely, Boys! 

[ronm]

Yessss, ..... I never got zapped, 

[ronm]

What a wonderful relaxing image, 

[angie]

This thread was getting rather heated - not what we want,  so those posts arguing are gone.
I hope all concerned can kiss and make-up.

I've said it before, I'll say it again here : play nicely, Boys! 

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Play nice boys. I hope not like these idiots, where do these type of folks come from.

I got this from my koi forum today. Not sure if it works just by copying the link.

Angie