Muscari & relatives 2013

[daveyp1970]

Maggie you are right but i showed Ray Cobb it (he has a very large muscari collection)he said it was identical to his,he received his from the chap who discovered the species,all Ray said was has it got inflated seed pods as well and it does ,maybe this sp isn't as uniform as we think,maybe Janis's is just a super form of the sp,my plant is not labeled as adilii but ex pc.Either that or PC is keeping his muscari to close and they are interbreeding and our plants are results of this mess.
The problem is there is no monograph,i have the original paper coming to me from adilii but like with everything we all presume from a described specimen that the sp is the same as this one and that its only found in a small area untill its discovered in a new place.

[Maggi Young]

 Davey, I am always prepared to believe that any species is MUCH more variable than we sometimes imagine -  to think otherwise is  foolhardy, I'm sure 

But my recollection of the plants shown by Prof. Guner ( the plant was found by his son, I think) and, I think, of the  written description, (which I cannot lay hands upon right now) sticks in my mind as the type shown by Janis so I'm having a tough time getting past that !

[daveyp1970]

Maggie i am no PC fan as you know

[Maggi Young]

Of interest : these watercolours by Prof. Guner's daughter...

http://www.isikguner.com/eng/muscari.html

[Rimmer de Vries]

Of interest : these watercolours by Prof. Guner's daughter...

http://www.isikguner.com/eng/muscari.html

Very nice Maggie, thanks

The problem is there is no monograph,i have the original paper coming to me from adilii

Can this paper be made available?

Thanks

Rimmer

[daveyp1970]

I decided to cut a flower of Muscari leucostomum(which is what i was told my adilii was) and my ex PC'adilii' to compare flower morphology.What do people think.I know what i think.

not forgetting the leaf and whole plant is very different as well.

[Maggi Young]

I've resized the photo a bit, Davey.....

[daveyp1970]

Thank you Maggie  Thats a lot better

[pehe]

Very nice Maggie, thanks


Can this paper be made available?

Thanks

Rimmer

Can I ask for a copy too?

Poul

[Janis Ruksans]

My Muscari adilii from Paul Christian also have relative large seed pods, but it looks quite different from M. adilii from Janis Ruksans.

Poul

I don't know origin of PC plant, but mine is 100% true, collected just on point from where it is described. Collected were seeds because there are only several tenth of specimens in wild at locus classicus. It is rarest Muascari species with fat spikes and large seed pods.
Janis

[Janis Ruksans]

and Davey- isn't your plant there the one identified a couple of years ago as NOT being M. adillii?


Janis'  as shown here http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=2883.msg87321#msg87321   
( other examples are to be found in the forum)  are, I think, from the locus classicus and are identical to those  seen shown in slides by Prof. Guner.

On this entry plants with seed pods are pictured in locus classicus, those in flowers - in my nursery. It is one of plants about introduction of which I'm very proud. At first - it is growing in spot not easy to find and reach. Second - now it is safe in nature, because it well established in cultivation and it is much easier to receive it from nursery than to search in nature. So natural population is almost 100% protected. And the third - it is one of most beautiful Muscari sp. seen by me.
Janis

[Janis Ruksans]

Of interest : these watercolours by Prof. Guner's daughter...

http://www.isikguner.com/eng/muscari.html

Thanks, Maggi for nice drawings. As you can see they looks identical with mine by shape of flower scape.
Regarding original paper with description - I haven't it present, but we had it during our trip with us and, pity, there were too detailed information about locality, so it was not so difficult to check spot by GPS and by derscription of locality. We passed half day serching for other spots in proximity but without results. Now botanists not more gives so detailed coordinates about new species - just for protection of natural populations. I'm now preparing description of 6 new crocuses but localities is hided in same way as it is done by Erich Pasche.
Janis

[Janis Ruksans]

Maggie you are right but i showed Ray Cobb it (he has a very large muscari collection)he said it was identical to his,he received his from the chap who discovered the species,all Ray said was has it got inflated seed pods as well and it does ,maybe this sp isn't as uniform as we think,maybe Janis's is just a super form of the sp,my plant is not labeled as adilii but ex pc.Either that or PC is keeping his muscari to close and they are interbreeding and our plants are results of this mess.
The problem is there is no monograph,i have the original paper coming to me from adilii but like with everything we all presume from a described specimen that the sp is the same as this one and that its only found in a small area untill its discovered in a new place.

Dave, now I have blooming plants of second generation from seeds received here - they all looks identical, so I don't think that there some hybridising occurs.
Janis

[pehe]

I don't know origin of PC plant, but mine is 100% true, collected just on point from where it is described. Collected were seeds because there are only several tenth of specimens in wild at locus classicus. It is rarest Muascari species with fat spikes and large seed pods.
Janis

In his catalogue PC says it is collected close to locus classicus.
Last year my adilii ex PC had a much denser flower spike. I am afraid it went to dormancy too early due to lack of watering, resulting in a smaller flower spike this year. But anyway it was never as fat as adilii ex JR, which I believe is the true species.

Poul

[daveyp1970]

Janis i wasn't accusing your stock of hybridising  ,What i will say i dont think PC's plant is  leucostomum (not yet untill i get more plant material).