Newbie just starting out ...

[kGarden]

Hi all,

Never really thought about collecting snowdrops - or even that there was so much variation - until the mad prices on eBay caught the headlines a year or so back ...

I planted some bog-standard snowdrops to make a bit of a winter-walk last spring, and am now thinking about raising some more interesting ones for a new walk (or if not for that then for an area on their own).

The area I'm thinking of is a triangle at the end of the garden that is difficult to design anything useful into, so I'm planting a serpentine maze of Holly hedges.  I thought perhaps I could plant some snowdrops along the edges of the path to make it a Winter walk, but maybe that is a daft idea?

Either way I though I would like to try collecting some snowdrop variations, and to that end I have bought a few relatively common ones cheaply - my thought being that I could use them as an experiment for twin-scaling.  I also have 4 or 5 decent sized lumps of G. elwesii which need splitting up this year, so I might try an experiment propagating some of those too just to see whether I make a complete hash of it ... or not 

I bought a few each of:

Galanthus Viridapice, "HYPPOLYTA",  "S. ARNOTT"  and Atkinsii  @ £2 each
and some Warham and Magnet @ £4 each

Hopefully you won't be too horrified!

I guess I should either pot them and twin-scale some in June, or plant (or pot?) them and leave them until next year so they have time to recover / fatten up?

I'm also off to Harveys (near me) on 2nd for their open day, and I expect I'll buy a few in the price bracket up to £20. Hopefully I won't get too carried away ...

Some questions I'd like your help with please:

Is buying one bulb enough?  I would prefer to buy 4 different ones, with my budget, rather than 4 all-the-same.

If I buy a single bulb how should I look after it?

I have raised beds in my vegetable / cutting area, so I could devote an area of that to snowdrops, and improve the soil accordingly.

Or I could pot them - I have both cold greenhouse and frost-free conservatory available for wintertime.

Given that we are in the middle of flowering and buying in-the-green time is there anything I ought to be doing that, as a newbie, I probably have not thought of?  I was thinking I should get to as many places that have open days as possible ... and perhaps only leave home with a fiver in my wallet!! ... but that's all I've thought of.

I did have a search for posts with "advice for newcomers", but if anyone remembers any specific threads that would help me get started I would appreciate it.

(I found the very helpful articles on propagation on judyssnowdrops.co.uk website)

Some background in case of interest:

I've been gardening for decades, am in the process of building a large garden [this is the third, and final!, time], I raise a lot of plants myself [seed, cuttings etc.] to keep costs down, so although twin-scaling is new to me hopefully previous experiences will help.

As a youngster I worked in commercial horticultural outfits which including doing tissue culture, and growing veg, cut flowers and house plants hydroponically, but hopefully those rusty skills won't be called upon, I'm not sure I fancy kitchen table-top tissue culture!

[RichardW]

the varieties you listed are all good "doers" for me so nothing to be horrified about, I started out with several of those and now have hundreds 

my preference is if they look healthy get them planted, wouldn't hurt to try chipping a few but I'm not brave enough to try that until a new acquisition has clumped up.

one bulb is always a risk but if you give them a good home it has as much chance of surviving as several given the bugs, beasties and great British weather they have to contend with, there's always the lattice pot route if you want a little extra security.

My own method is to put it in a pot for one season, make sure it's healthy then plant out.

many of mine are in raised beds previously used for veg and has been working well, failing that on a bank under deciduous trees is best here on clay soil.

prices at sales are a little scary  and they can be fickle things so starting cheap and working up is good way to start, will be RH this weekend, if I Forget my glasses again I'll be the one bent over the table with his face a few inches from the label 

good luck.

[Maggi Young]

Welcome K !

I like the sound of your serpentine maze - for extra winter interest, might you not fit in some things other than holly ?  Sarcococca,  Mahonia, Chimonanthus, Viburnum for instance?

[ChrisD]

Yes a warm welcome to the forum.

A good place to start might be with this topic...

http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=9981.0

There is some good advice here and also demonstrates our ability to get sidetracked very easily. There is also a thread on chipping/twin scaling right at the top of the Galanthus forum page.

I would always buy 1 of 4 different varieties (rather than 4 of one variety), yes they will take longer to form a good sized clump, but some may well fare better in your particular soil/situation than others. It would be a real pity to buy 4 of a variety that doesnt do well for you.

The maze sounds interesting, my only worry would be how much winter sun the snowdrops would get. In my cold soil most varieties grow much better where they get good levels of sun (or at least brightness) in the winter, but are then shaded in the summer.

Good luck

Chris

[kGarden]

the varieties you listed are all good "doers" for me so nothing to be horrified about, I started out with several of those and now have hundreds

Thanks for the reassurance and the tips.  I'm in no-man's-land between being exciting and knowing how easily I get addicted to any new project!

I like the sound of your serpentine maze - for extra winter interest, might you not fit in some things other than holly ?  Sarcococca,  Mahonia, Chimonanthus, Viburnum for instance?

At the moment I'm only considering sections of variegated holly, and a Perry's Weeping Silver (forgotten the exact name) as a centrepiece in a circle (within the "Maze"), which I fell in love with at Westonbirt a few years back ... I did consider Euonymous as an alternative variegation from Holly though.

Cost is a major factor for me, and I was able to buy cell-grown year-old plants for about a quid a go, and I've grown those on for a year so they are now thigh-high and will probably do all right planted out in the Spring, or I may pot on until next Autumn.

The idea for the maze is stolen from East Ruston Old Vicarage (my favourite garden to visit). Its not a maze, per se, just a curving walk between two hedges, which then comes-upon some open circles along the way. Whilst fun for kids to run through, I'm not sure how often I would actually walk it, once it is mature, and that coupled with the fact that we never go to the far end of the garden (where the maze is sited) in the depths of winter, is what made me think of having a collection of snowdrops there as a reason to take a walk to the end of the garden.

Maze at East Ruston Old Vicarage:


one of their "circles":


and how mine looks at the moment!!




We are on heavy clay here, but the paths are lowered, and thereby the beds that the Holly is planted in are slightly raised, which should improve the drainage a bit, so my hope is that snowdrops will flourish in between the hedge and the path.

A good place to start might be with this topic...

Thanks, I will take a look

I would always buy 1 of 4 different varieties (rather than 4 of one variety) ... some may well fare better in your particular soil/situation than others.

Hadn't thought of that, excellent point, thanks.

my only worry would be how much winter sun the snowdrops would get

Useful, thanks. The Holly will be evergreen, of course. Any canopy above it will be deciduous, which will help in Summer.  The final "exit" path (first photo above) is North-South, so that might help with Winter sunshine.

[kentish_lass]

Hi K
Welcome to the forum.

I hate to sound negative.....but the snowdrops will not be very happy under an evergreen hedgerow.  They obviously cannot go in the pathways so where were you thinking of planting them?  Snowdrops are happiest under deciduous trees and shrubs so they get shade in the summer and light during their flowering season.

Of course the maze will take a while to establish so you could always grow them temporarily among the small Hollies but eventually they will be swamped.  Or maybe I am not getting the complete picture....it would not be the first time 

[RichardW]

Some of mine grow in very shady positions, they survive but don't do anything like as well as those given a good spot, I would agree and avoid planting under evergreens if you want to establish a collection. raised veg plots with something to shade them in the summer would be a much better bet, particularly if you're thinking of buying expensive things 

[kGarden]

the snowdrops will not be very happy under an evergreen hedgerow

I'll give the idea a miss.  I wonder what folk did before internet forums ... chatted about it down the pub and got feedback from people with much more limited experience! My Father seemed to find out about things he had no knowledge of, when I was young, but Forums is a whole different ballgame!  Many years of heartache saved, thank you.

I'll see about putting the hedges further apart to create a wider space that could have some bulbs as well, but if they won't do well I think best to do as you have suggested and plant some for the first few years whilst the hedge gets established.

For the main collection I'll find a different spot. For now they can either be in pots, or a raised bed in the vegetable / cutting area.  I have several years "thinking time" before I will have raised enough to consider making a "planting"

The others that I have are planted under Pine trees, which I was reading in another thread is the worst kind of woodland for them Not getting off to a very good start!  Possible saving grace is that they are planted right on the West edge, and the pines are tall, with clear trunks, so the snowdrops get plenty of light. 



I have a deciduous copse nearby (next photo is of the back of the one above), which I was planning to naturalise Bluebells under, but maybe I should move the existing snowdrops there?



The Snowdrops I planted last Spring are in a walk at the back of that copse, so I'll be able to see how they do this Spring - they are just coming up now. The planted area is on the left of this picture (taken facing West):

raised veg plots with something to shade them in the summer would be a much better bet

Thanks. The end bed is close to some trees so gets some shade from just after lunch in the Summer, would that be enough? or do I need to keep the heat of the day off them?

Perhaps I could use Scaffolders' Debris Netting (cheap as chips) same as I use to keep the Cabbage White butterfly off my Brassicas?



Obviously it doesn't keep a lot of light off the Brassicas, otherwise they wouldn't grow well enough, but I have seen it used as light greenhouse shading too.

[Tim Ingram]

I agree with Jennie about naturalising snowdrops under deciduous trees - at the end of the day not much grows under holly  except for ivy and maybe cyclamen sometimes. But other parts of the garden look ideal and exciting for snowdrops. In our garden (rather smaller but quite intensive) I have been establishing snowdrops and woodland perennials under long rows of dwarf apples, which don't dry the soil out too much in the summer. To speed this up I have simply buried seed pods from established clumps of nivalis where I want them to grow; within 3 or 4 years the little clumps of seedlings begin to flower. (The ideal is to collect fully ripe pods, but whilst still green and firm, and the resulting clumps of seedlings look very natural). A few named varieties also reliably produce seed, but don't breed true and the second picture shows one of these (another variety 'Gerard Parker' always sets seed well and some of its seedlings are probably even better than the parent variety). And then as named varieties bulk up (not always as well as you might like) it is possible to get superb drifts of these.

With the size of garden you picture I would go for good numbers of a few tried and tested varieties, and maybe just a few £20 varieties to spice things up and get visitors excited!).

[RichardW]

The Snowdrops I planted last Spring are in a walk at the back of that copse, so I'll be able to see how they do this Spring - they are just coming up now. The planted area is on the left of this picture (taken facing West):

That looks like a great spot, and if you're on clay soil like me the sides of those raised areas will be ideal to give them a little extra drainage, mine thrive on banks here.

Plus less bending down to look at them so easier on the back 

[kGarden]

if you're on clay soil like me the sides of those raised areas will be ideal to give them a little extra drainage, mine thrive on banks here.

Hmmm ... I could plant them on the edge of the banks to the perimeter ditch, hadn't thought of that

Plus less bending down to look at them so easier on the back

Would mean wading in the ditch though!

[kGarden]

Some new toys arrived today



If I pot them up, with a view to twin-scaling them this year, or next, what sized pots should I use, and how many bulbs per pot please?

I have leaf mould, sharp sand, grit and John Innes available for potting.

[kentish_lass]

Well K - you certainly have many other places to choose from!  The trees in that copse looks like a nice area to me if you are able to dig there?  I actually have snowdrops growing in open spots in full sun in mixed beds and am now trying them under deciduous trees to make a new woodland walk area.  From what I have learned on this forum over the years - nivalis can take a shadier situation, elwesii like more sun and well drained soil......and plicatus do well in a sunnier spot too.

I have had snowdrops in the garden for over 15 years and only started collecting seriously in the last 3-4 years.  I am just about to try chipping bulbs this year now that I have a little more excess.  I would plant the majority of your bulbs in the ground where they like it best and attempt the chipping with a few cheaper ones (well, that is what I am going to try).

Tim - those huge drifts are beautiful.  Have you a rough idea which month the pods are ready?  How long after flowering (approx) are they ripe?  I would love to try an area with seeds as you have done.  I have not been collecting seed pods and imagine I will be in trouble with seedlings appearing in the near future    How do you remove the seed pods without spreading virus (ie via scissors, fingernails etc)

Thanks

[Tim Ingram]

Jennie - I'll have to let you know when seed pods are ripe! I'm not quite sure when. Sometimes I have left them too long and they quickly go yellow and mushy - the seed is still fine but planting it less easy. I don't find that many cultivars produce seed, but 'Gerard Parker' and 'Wendy's Gold' always do, though so far the latter always comes green!

Virus is rarely transmitted by seed so should not be a serious problem, and another point is that naturalising snowdrops like this and getting good genetic variation as a result is much the best way of preventing build up of pests and diseases - and to get good spread you need varieties or species that will seed themselves freely. Amongst the named varieties in our garden I haven't seen evidence of virus until recently, although in some like Lady Beatrix Stanley it is thought not to have any appreciable effect on the plant. I tend to be more worried about Swift Moth Caterpillars in the soil, and probably narcissus fly but I do have quite big garden where plants can be spread around in different groups.

[kGarden]

The trees in that copse looks like a nice area to me if you are able to dig there?

I put the freebie bulbs in along the front of the deciduous copse yesterday and that gave me the  thought that perhaps I should replace 4' or so along the middle of the grass area with some membrane and bark to make a "walk", and then plant the remainder of the turf area with bulbs.

The area under the trees gets enough sun that it has plenty of weeds, unlike larger and more dense woodland, so I've been spraying it with Roundup in the late Summer.

I could do the same to kill off the grass perhaps?

The grass path runs North-South, but is much better shaded, in Summer, than anywhere else in my garden. It get direct Sun, through the trunks of the trees, when it is low in the West.

Useful information about the amount of sun the varieties need, thanks. If I rip up the turf that will give me an area with more light - the grass is bog standard, not some shade-loving mix, so that would extend the whole area that can be planted.  Just a bit bothered about the weeds ... got a lot of other garden to look after, so this will need weedkiller during the dormant season if its going to work, as a project.