Good (and Bad) Doers for Beginners?

[kGarden]

As someone just starting out, and reading of people losing some/many of their precious purchases in their first year or two, if anyone has suggestions of varieties that a newbie might be likely to collect (speaking for myself that means "cheap"!!) but which are known to be Good Doers that might reduce the likelihoods of disappointment.

I bought Green Brush cheaply, and since several people have told me that they couldn't get it to thrive. 

Bronwyn Parrott said today, in another thread, "having lost:- Gracillis, Sandersii, Green bush,Warei, Sharlockii, Ketton, Lady Elphinstone and Blonde Inge" to which steve owen replied "You mentioned eight named varieties and I originally had trouble with every one (and a few more besides)"

I found that advice invaluable.

Dunno if it is an "average" list, or not?, but this is my Wish List (with target price based on price lists I have looked at online), several of which I have acquired already - hopefully they will be in the Good Doers list

15.00 Alison Hilary
 8.00 Anglesey Abbey
 2.00 Atkinsii
 8.50 Augustus
10.00 Bess
10.00 Bill Bishop
 8.00 Blewberry (Have I got this name right?)
 8.50 Cedric's Prolific
 8.00 Hiemalis ex Broadleigh Gardens
15.00 Hiemalis Group Donald Simms Early
 9.50 Faringdon Double
 4.00 Green Brush
 6.00 Hill Poe
 2.00 Hyppolyta
 8.00 John Gray
20.00 Kite
 7.00 Lady Elphinstone
15.00 Lapwing
 4.00 Magnet
 6.00 Merlin
 3.00 Mighty Atom
 4.50  elwesii var monostictus   
4.50 Mrs Backhouse No 12
 8.50 Mrs McNamara
10.00 Mrs Thompson
 4.50 Ophelia
17.50 Peardrop
20.00 Penelope Ann   
15.00 Hiemalis Group Rainbow Farm Early
 8.00 reginae-olgae subsp. vernalis   
12.00 Richard Ayres
10.00 Robin Hood
35.00 Rosemary Burnham   
 2.00 S. Arnott
 5.00 Scharlockii
22.00 Spindlestone Surprise
 2.00 Viridapice
10.00 Warei
 4.00 Warham
12.00 Wendy's Gold
20.00 Yvonne Hay

[kentish_lass]

Hi K - as I am up late (as always!) - I will answer first.

There are a couple on your list which are challenging and many which I find thrive.  Of course there are always many factors which will determine whether they thrive in your garden or not.  Soil type, aspect, insect predation and disease.

I garden on quite heavy clay so have to do lots of amending with leaf mould, homemade compost and lots of sharp grit when I plant bulbs.  Then you have to hope the Narcissus Fly will not lay eggs near your precious bulbs.  I have always had snowdrops in open beds and in the woodland areas.....but only nivalis, Magnet, Atkinsii, Hippolyta, Sharlockii, Viridapice and a few others.  I just planted them and forgot about them......and they thrived for years.

When I started collecting the more expensive varieties I joined this forum to gather advice and knowledge like yourself.  I was in my first year of collecting and had a few expensive 'no shows'.  I had a collection of problems in that first year - rot (from not adding grit), narcissus fly larvae, stagnospora (a disease) and something eating the bulbs from the sides (possibly swift moth larvae).  Everyone on this forum helped me diagnose my problems and were very patient and helpful.

I am still very much a learner and lost lots of bulbs during this rainy summer.....they just rotted.  I am currently using lattice pots but if I have enough of one variety I will direct plant a couple and lattice pot a couple to see which works best for me.

I would wait a while to try Rosemary Burnham as it is known to be a touch tricky.  I have had bad luck with Lapwing, reginae olgae ssp vernalis, Yvonne Hay and lost a clump of Robin Hood to stag....but you may have luck with them.  Most on your list should be fairly easy to grow and they all do well with me.

Drainage is very important.....that I struggle with no matter how much grit I use.  Just try a few of the cheaper ones and see how it goes.....it seems to be the only way to learn!

[Alan_b]

Below the ones I know about, based on personal experience or reputation:

8.00 Anglesey Abbey Good
2.00 Atkinsii  Very Good
8.50 Augustus  Quite good but most of the stock is virused
8.00 Blewberry Tart , probably  Good but not flowering very well for me
4.00 Green Brush  Bad, by reputation; not tried it myself
6.00 Hill Poe  Good
7.00 Lady Elphinstone Not reliably yellow - but must be a good doer
4.00 Magnet I've lost this twice but I must have been unlucky
4.50  elwesii var monostictus   Just a description of type, could be good, bad or indifferent
10.00 Mrs Thompson Good
15.00 Hiemalis Group Rainbow Farm Early  For me, bad
8.00 reginae-olgae subsp. vernalis Just a description of type, could be good, bad or indifferent
12.00 Richard Ayres  Good
35.00 Rosemary Burnham Bad, but still very desirable   
2.00 S. Arnott Good
5.00 Scharlockii  Good
2.00 Viridapice Good
12.00 Wendy's Gold Good for me but not everybody

Another classic good doer not on the list is a double snowdrop called 'Lady Beatrix Stanley'. 

[RichardW]

Agree with Jennie, I grow many of those & the only one there that stands out as something that just doesn't increase for me is lady elphinstone, but yellows generally don't like it here, don't have some of the more expensive varieties.

Good doers here on that list...

A Abbey
Atkinsii
Bill Bishop
C Proflific
Hippolyta
John Gray
Mighty Atom
Mrs Backhouse no 12
Peardrop
S Arnott
Sharlockii
Viridapice
Warham
Merlin
Magnet

Those I split regularly, move around, chip etc and generally make good clumps quickly wherever they end up, though I think most would agree they all can be very fickle! Start cheap and when they do well introduce the pricey, then keep everything crossed 

[Alan_b]

Actually, if you want an early elwesii snowdrop I would heartily recommend 'Peter Gatehouse' as the most handsome.  It generally flowers in November, although it was late this year.  It has always done well for me, given a sunny spot. 

[ChrisD]

Oh dear I think you might get quite alot of conflicting advice!

I have struggled with a couple that are generally regarded as "easy" - namely Atkinsii and Viridapice.

A few varieties that do very well here are gracilis highdown, lady beatrice stanley, magnet, and woronowii. (I really like woronowii as the leaves are a bright green providing a nice contrast to the majority of other drops, it is also cheap!).

As I have mentioned on this forum before when we moved to this house over 15 years ago there was one type of snowdrop in the garden. I assumed it was nivalis, but my father gave me some "snowdrops" and they were similar but not the same. It turns out the ones that were in the garden when we moved in were G. regina olgae ssp vernalis. (It wasnt till John - kentgardener - gave me this variety that I finally managed to id it  .) Anyway it grows like a weed here and I would be happy to donate you and any other forumists bulbs of this one. I have several very congested clumps which I need to split when they go dormant, alot of these will end up being thrown away. Please drop me a PM (personal message) with your address.

Jennie - did you lose yours? would you like some more to try again?

Chris

[RichardW]

You're right Chris, I've struggled to grow Primrose Warburg for best part of 10 years, someone <3 miles away has clumps of it 

Is a good & bad doer ....

[Alan_b]

I think everybody finds personal exceptions to the general rule of good or bad doers.  I don't think anyone knows if this is due to a genuine mismatch between a particular bulb and local conditions or just coincidental bad luck.  There are bad spots where no snowdrops will thrive but perhaps there are others where some will and some won't.  I have been growing a lot of snowdrops in pots for the last few years.  Many don't seem to mind but some clearly do insofar as they don't flower.

Oh, and the other thing I have found from growing snowdrops in pots is that two completely different cultivars can disappear from the same pot between one year and the next but there will often then be a big fat grub or two (swift moth larvae) in exchange.

[kGarden]

Wow! Thank you all very much

I've demoted lady elphinstone

Oh dear I think you might get quite alot of conflicting advice!

It's OK, I'm familiar with the adage "Ask two gardeners and get three opinions"

if you want an early elwesii snowdrop I would heartily recommend 'Peter Gatehouse' as the most handsome.

That was a question I should have asked  I had reginae-olgae subsp. vernalis down having read it was early, but a recommendation for a few early ones would be welcome.  I have some standard elwesii that I picked, this year, in about the second week of January, and they were a treat to have in the house; having said that I'm not sure how early I would want them ... I think of snowdrops as harbingers of Spring, and November may be too early for me to enjoy - same as I don't grow really early Sprouts and Leeks because I don't actually want to eat them in early Autumn - but certainly some that flower by Christmas would be nice.

I feel that late ones may be short flowered if we get a warm Spring, is that the case? so I'm slightly anti them too.  Happy to hear opinions on both counts though.

I will also pay close attention to drainage. We are on heavy clay here, and I have installed "land drains" in some areas of the garden where I wanted to improve drainage, and raised beds in other.  Sadly its very flat, a nice bank would be ideal - but that would be rather a major construction to contemplate, even for me! My aim is to keep the ones I have bought as "ones" in pots until they have produced enough that I can contemplate planting them out; maybe I should be thinking of a lattice-pot plunged into the garden rather than a pot as such.

the other thing I have found from growing snowdrops in pots is that two completely different cultivars can disappear from the same pot between one year and the next but there will often then be a big fat grub or two (swift moth larvae) in exchange.

Does the Swift Moth lay eggs when the plant is in leaf?  If not is there any mileage in covering the pot with a net fine enough to keep the pest out?

[Brian Ellis]

One I would recommend is 'Rainbow Farm Early' from Mike Broadhurst - he was there at both events this weekend, but I didn't look to see whether he had any.  It's a good doer.

The other thing I would suggest is if a snowdrop doesn't do well in one place in the garden, dig it up in late May/June when the foliage is going down and replant it afresh elsewhere with a bit of bonemeal underneath it.  I think the important thing then is to remember where a snowdrop was not doing well and not replant there.

[Mavers]

It is true what grows like a weed for one snowdrop enthusiast will take many attempts for another.

In my first garden, where I'd been collecting snowdrops for over 30 years, they grew like weeds. I transplanted my collection to my parents garden that was part of an old orchard when I was in the process of moving home. They were moved as dormant bulbs & the first spring they put on an excellent display. The following year however every single variety failed to show.......I was very upset. 

Luckily snowdrops like my new garden & after 6 years here I'm reforming a new collection.

If there is any advice I would give to 'newbies' is start cheap, I know how the heart leaps when you see the expensive ones but they are expensive for a reason...........new so therefore extremely rare or old but extremely difficult to please.

The following snowdrops formed the basis of my first collection & as I gained more & more knowledge culminated with rarities before the losses described above.

Straffan (my very first snowdrop bought from Christine Skelmersdale of Broadleigh Gardens in the early1980's )
Ketton
John Gray
Mighty Atom
S Arnott
Magnet
Viridapice
Brenda Troyle
Lady Elphinstone

[John Breen]

I’m also a “newbie” but I’ve lurked here for a few years. I found these lists very useful to me, so, here is my tuppence worth. If you look through the previous posts you will see a few varieties being listed over and over. For a reason!

I suggest cheap well tried varieties to start with. The expensive ones are new and less tested, but fashionable! I would also try to get some early and late varieties, and then choose to get a range of characteristics: single – double – early-flowering – late-flowering – maybe a yellow - plicatus versus nivalis versus elwesii types. That should allow you see the different characteristics shown by snowdrops.

Here is my list in the order I recommend them.

Magnet has been the best bulker-upper for me. I bought about 5. I now have 100s. And I have given away quite a few. In comparison, Galatea planted nearby has not bulked up.
Straffan - mid to late season
Atkinsii early-ish
S Arnott or Brenda Troyle
John Gray - early-ish
Comet (nice grey leaves, good sized flower; has bulked up nicely for me)
Gerard Parker - for a big flowered Plicatus-type
David Shackleton - late-ish Elwesii -type
Ophelia – a double
Viridipice – a green tip - nivalis-type
Yellow: Wendy's Gold or Spindlestone Surprise
Pusey Green Tips and Lady Elphinstone have also bulked up very well for me.  However … Lady Elphinstone is not always yellow and Pusey Green Tips is not very different from an ordinary double Galanthus nivalis Flore Pleno.

And in case someone detects an Irish bias: Greenfields has not done well for me, and currently I am trying Hill Poe for the third time - and it originated near here. 




Hill Poe: difficult for me

[Mavers]

Good choices John, Wendy's Gold was my first yellow. I managed to get one when John Morley first offered it in his catalogue & it increased very quickly.

I like Gerard Parker very much, a lovely substantial flower.

I've never been attracted to the raggedy doubles Lady Elphinstone being the exception because of her lovely yolky colour when settled.

Sutton Courtney is a favourite of mine.

[ChrisD]

They were moved as dormant bulbs & the first spring they put on an excellent display. The following year however every single variety failed to show.......I was very upset. 

Wow - in the worst way - every single one.   Do you have any ideas why? Very upsetting.

Chris

[Alan_b]

...every single one.   Do you have any ideas why?

That's just what I was thinking.  You could probably kill snowdrop bulbs effectively by making them too wet during their summer dormancy but nobody would have ever planted an orchard in area that gets waterlogged.  Fungal diseases can spread very rapidly but you would expect at least a few stragglers left behind.  On the other hand, Matt Bishop lost a lot of snowdrops to Stagonospora in similar circumstances, immediately after relocating them to a new site.  There's probably a lesson to be learned here, if we knew what it was.