What is the lifespan of a single galanthus bulb?

[ScotsmanInKent]

Hi All

I was wondering if anyone knows what sort of age single Galanthus bulbs can reach.
Does this vary between nivalis, plicatus, elwesii?
I think they must last a few years because in large clumps the bulbs in the center are larger then the outer ones and do still grow.
This would be interesting to know the actual rate of increase of a clump, which is reckoned to be a Fibonacci series, ie 1,2,3,5,8,13,21, but at what point will the original bulb and then the oldest daughter bulbs die...?

Would be interested in forumists experiences.

I am pretty sure I have some original bulbs still from 7 years ago from elwesii and plicatus. and these are pretty big now compared to the newer ones (about 4 times the size of a normal "flowering" bulb).

[Alan_b]

I think a lot of snowdrop bulbs reach a certain size then split into two or three bulbs, or possibly more.  The model that generates the Fibonacci series makes different assumptions but those are just unproven assumptions.  Without the concept of a 'daughter bulb', the meaning of the 'original bulb' is lost. 

[ScotsmanInKent]

Hi Alan

I think I see what you mean, there is no "original" bulb because it splits eventually into daughters?

I am not sure on that, seems to me the daughter bulbs are always smaller than the bulb they come from, so there is an "original" bulb.
I think the lifespan must be quite long judging by the number of bulbs in some old clumps.

Still, it is simplistic to ask "how old is a bulb" maybe.
As I think the outer bulb/leaf layer dies annually (forming the tunic) and is replaced by a new inner area.
So maybe the "age" of the bulb can only ever be the number of bulb layers.

Surprising no one has researched this scientifically.

[Alan_b]

I dug a a clump of snowdrops today.  The main constituent was three separate bulbs of similar size that were so close and so intimate that they must have come originally from a single bulb.  But they were three equals and each bulb was producing at least two stems so will probably be two or three bulbs next year.

[Diane Clement]

This thread reminded me of this Galanthus plicatus which made six daughter bulbs last year, is this a record??

[Alan_b]

Sorry, dreadful picture taken indoors at night but showing how a bit if light bulb munching by insects unknown has stimulated a lot of bulbil formation.  Give that another year and it might look like Diane's record-breaker.

[art600]

I think Melvyn Jope posted a picture of a 'Spindlestone Surprise' with 13 daughter bulbs - some surprise!

I had seven daughter bulbs on the same snowdrop, but the next year the clump was reduced to one! - nasty surprise

[gote]

If you have a knife and exchange the blade and later exchange the handle. Is it still the same knife?
It all depends upon what you mean by single bulb. If you regularly remove the offsets, the lifespan is greater than yours. If it splits in two one is always larger (even if by a minute percentage/microgram) and can still be considered the original single bulb. I think this is hairsplitting rather than bulbsplitting 
Cheers
Göte

[Diane Clement]

Different sort of reproduction here.  The bulb seems to have divided, rather than produce daughter bulbs - but as Gote says, one is a little bigger than the other. 
this is  'Madeleine'

[Tim Ingram]

What a fascinating thread. The Fibonacci series seems to be a mathematical ideal rather disturbed by natural processes! It is also interesting how bulbs spread - so 'Wendy's Gold', such a good doer in the garden, is very loose in the colonies it makes, whereas 'Augustus', which I left in situ for quite a few years developed into a tight 'ball' of bulbs (over 80), very difficult to divide up. Others, 'Washfield Colesbourne' and nivalis 'Sandersii', in our garden seem hardly to have increased over a decade or more I have had them, and presumably are the same bulbs. Other bulbs, like tulips and iris, if planted very deep, don't tend to increase whereas they often flower better. There must be interesting studies that have been done on this, but more likely by bulb growers intent on greater increase of bulbs.

[Palustris]

So what is it when a sterile clone is divided or divides itself or produces offsets? There was originally only one, but potentially thousands. Surely those are still the original bulb? Not well explained, but take for example Malus domestica Bramley Seedling. There is only one original plant but that one plant is well spread out through the world.
Further thought, the original bulb I suppose has a definite life span, but its genes survive in its offsets.
Fascinating really.

[Maggi Young]

Thing is, with  the Bramley seedling example, the multiplication has been achieved entirely by the interference of humans, while bulbs have the capacity to multiply, often in great numbers, of their own accord - this, for me, is one of the reasons that bulbs ( speaking in broad terms, of lumpy underground storage organs!!)  are so utterly fascinating.

[Tim Ingram]

Apropos depth of planting and bulb size and increase - I have just started reading Janis Ruksans superb book on Crocuses (admittedly rather different to snowdrops!) but he mentions that corms planted 10cm deep formed 18 corms of 3.5cm in diameter after 3 years, whereas planted only 5cm deep they formed 32 corms but only 2cm in diameter. Even though galanthus are very different (ie: the bulbs are perennial rather than renewed each year) the same principles must apply. There must be commercial growers looking seriously at growing some of the special snowdrops. (In Janis Ruksans book he also mentions a couple of corms lifted from 47cm depth! A record?

[Alan_b]

Snowdrops planted too deep will send up a stem then form a new bulb some way up the stem.  Presumably the depth of this new bulb would indicate what the snowdrop feels its optimum planting depth should be.

[KentGardener]

I think Melvyn Jope posted a picture of a 'Spindlestone Surprise' with 13 daughter bulbs - some surprise!

I've had a few elwesii produce a dozen small daughters in some years.