How to pollinate snowdrops

[Tim Ingram]

What a very interesting and valuable discussion. I have done no deliberate hybridisation of snowdrops, though Anne's cross between 'yellows' certainly tempts me to try (!), but just from observing the snowdrops in our garden, the only varieties regularly setting seed and producing seedlings are 'Gerard Parker', 'Trym', 'Wendy's Gold', 'Percy Picton', ikariae (but not woronowii), and one form of reginae-olgae, and nivalis itself, all straight species. A few oddball hybrids appear from time to time and presumably the more snowdrops you grow, and the longer you grow them, the more this is likely to happen (eg: I have one which might have x allenii in its make-up?). With the incredible variety of snowdrops already grown it seems hard to imagine what to aim for from controlled crosses, with the obvious exception of the yellows. Plants that actually crop up in individual gardens and stand the test of time are likely to make the best plants. On the other hand it could be fun to see what happens if you cross 'Cicely Hall' with a yellow and work on from this, or alternatively develop the poculiform habit. It just shows how incredibly exciting snowdrops are in whatever direction you take them.

[Martin Baxendale]

Tim, my main aim is tall, large-flowered, strong-growing garden plants that will thrive anywhere, with strong weather-resistant non-flopping scapes. Classic snowdrop flower shapes is what I'm going for, with a whole range of criteria for improvements, such as thick-petalled and very bright white flowers, strong markings, good scent, a tendency to open even in cold and dull weather, etc. Leaves reasonably short at flowering so they don't hide the flowers. And of course healthy disease-resistant cultivars, with any that show a tendency to being prone to disease or weak growing sent to the compost heap. And I've still missed out all kinds of more minor attributes that I look for. Even in trying to breed this kind of classic-shaped good garden garden snowdrop I'm finding there are sooooo many things to take into account that it can start to do your head in 

[Martin Baxendale]

Just realised I could have summed all of that up much more succinctly by simply saying that what I want to end up with is snowdrop cultivars that could be awarded both a FCC and an AGM (do they still award the FCC?)  A tad ambitious, I know. But I have some promising contenders in the pipeline already, so time will tell.

[Alan_b]

Whilst Martin's aim is laudable and sensible, I cannot help but think that there may be exotic 'novelty' snowdrops on the horizon.  We seem to be moving towards increasingly yellow snowdrops so a very yellow one, like a yellow version of 'Green Tear', might be a possible result from a prolonged breeding program.     

[annew]

Crack on then, Alan!

[Martin Baxendale]

Indeed, Alan. I'm sure there'll be all kinds of exciting developments in the breeding of less traditional snowdrop types in the long term. I didn't mean to disparage snowdrop 'novelties' and new forms. It's just that my own breeding aims tend mainly towards the classic snowdrop form for a couple of reasons:

a) When I grew up with snowdrops in my parents' garden and started with them in my own gardens, there were pretty much only the classic snowdrop cultivar types around apart from the species - Atkinsii, Arnott, Straffan, Merlin, Atom, John Gray etc. so the classic snowdrop types are my first love and what I naturally seek to improve on (both in size and looks and in vigour,  weather resistance and disease resistance.

b) Limited access to breeding material of the rarer and most expensive snowdrop novelties - not having had the spare time to build up networks of knowledgeable snowdrop growing friends from whom to beg or swap pollen or bulbs of the newest rareties, and not having the spare cash to buy the rarest novelties when they sell for sky-high prices, has limited my ability to play around with many of the newest things on the block.

b) is a problem that seems to be particularly  acute for breeders in the snowdrop world - the difficulty in obtaining material of the latest developments with interesting breeding potential, due to the combination of how painfully slow these are to bulk up and become distributed and the very high prices that they've started to command as a result. It's one reason that I often beg pollen rather than bulbs, as giving away pollen is far less of a sacrifice for a grower with a rare snowdrop.

The irony is that often you'll need a fair number of bulbs of a particular novelty (e.g. a good poc like E.A. Bowles) to get enough pollen or seed if (as many snowdrops are) the thing you want to breed with is shy in producing pollen and/or seeds. Successful development of a micro-prop system for rare snowdrops would make my life a lot easier!

[johnw]

Martin  - I wonder if it might be an idea to use platyphyllus in your breeding; perhaps a separate line and with what ie the question.  I wonder if platy is more resistant to stag given its wet natural nabitat.

Perhpas Anne might tell us if cyclamineus adds stag resistance to Narcissus hybrids given its love of wet to moist sites as well.

The whole line of thought may be unfounded of course.

johnw - blowy while a huge storm churns south of us & on out to sea.

[Alan_b]

Martin, I know holders of collections of Galanthus, even some National Collection holders, who have never expressed (to me) any interest in breeding new snowdrops.  Many seem to be busy people who may not have time to collect pollen on your behalf but you might be able to build a relationship to the point where they would give access to their collection to allow you to gather pollen yourself.  My point is that you should not necessarily be put off by the high prices and lack of general availability of novel snowdrops; there may be ways around this.   

[Leena]

Tim, my main aim is tall, large-flowered, strong-growing garden plants that will thrive anywhere, with strong weather-resistant non-flopping scapes. Classic snowdrop flower shapes is what I'm going for, with a whole range of criteria for improvements, such as thick-petalled and very bright white flowers, strong markings, good scent, a tendency to open even in cold and dull weather, etc. Leaves reasonably short at flowering so they don't hide the flowers. And of course healthy disease-resistant cultivars, with any that show a tendency to being prone to disease or weak growing sent to the compost heap.

This sounds like a perfect plant  . And to me also important thing is a snowdrop which would be adapted to our weather in Finland, where the snow melts away in April, so very early flowering varieties start to flower inside the snow and suffer in the long run (I think).
I read somewhere that many G.plicatus are short lived and prone to disease. Is this true?

[Tim Ingram]

The idea of an AGM FCC plant sounds good - a bit like a very beautiful actress winning an Oscar, marvellous to see but a little unreal, or at least unattainable for most of us. Snowdrops go in two directions, the wonder of novelty, and the steadiness of being good garden plants. It's interesting that something like 'S. Arnott', which is effectively sterile and doesn't produce seed, has been such a good plant for so long, so I suppose that goes back to Martin's comment about the 'classical' snowdrops - those classical features must be the one's to really aim for if breeding for longevity, but a yellow 'Green Tear' if you want to hit the headlines! 'Wendy's Gold' and 'Cicely Hall' are both superb plants in my garden so maybe I should go back to that idea of seeing if they will cross - it really would be an exciting project and Anne's video a wonderful inspiration.

[annew]

Martin's aim is a very noble one, and when he finds ones he thinks are worthy and names them, they'll probably be around a lot longer than the ones we think of as novelties now. My primary aim when breeding is quite different - it's fun! I like to cross things just to see what will happen, or to see if I can get a particular form I fancy by guessing which parents to use - not scientific or worthy at all. If people want to grow them for fun, I don't consider it any different from buying a Dionysia knowing you will probably kill it before its next flowering season - if you buy a snowdrop (even pricey ones are cheaper than a meal for two in a modestly priced restaurant), you can enjoy it, and even have it increase for little effort by you, and you're much more likely to enjoy it for a number of years than your Dionysia.
Of course - IF YOU'VE MADE IT YOURSELF - it won't have cost you anything! 

[annew]

By the way, Martin, I'm happy to send you pollen of anything you fancy - pm me for a list of cultivars I grow.

[Martin Baxendale]

Anne, you make me sound like some kind of snowdrop breeding saint!    I'm just dabbling pollen around and growing on the results.

Thanks for the suggestions and offers re pollen. Lack of enough spare time and not having made lots of contacts with other snowdrop growers are the problems even with trying to locate and beg useful pollen from the newest snowdrop discoveries - plus I don't really like pestering people, even if I know them, let alone when they don't know me from Adam.

I do manage to get my hands on the odd new discovery (as bulb or pollen) if it has real breeding potential, it's just that when I started breeding I mostly had access to classical types so that's what I used and that's what I've continued to concentrate on, so it's the main thrust of what's coming out the other end now.

I've also been concentrating on trying to get polyploids - triploids and tetraploids - for increased size and vigour, but that's proving a long, slow process due to the fact that the only way to do it (since there are almost no known tetraploid snowdrops) is to use known triploids, which are very infertile or virtually sterile, so very difficult to breed with - involving lots and lots of repeat crosses, often with no seeds to show for it. (Tim, S. Arnott is a hybrid triploid. which accounts for its vigour and longevity).

Oh well, onwards and upwards.

[Bronwyn Parrott]

Empty tea bags, brilliant!!! Last year I got really frustrated making tiny little cloth bags for them although a couple disappeared overnight, I have no idea why. You are clever, thanks.
Bronwyn 

[Bronwyn Parrott]

Should the flower stay on the plant and in the ground during this process? Has if been removed just for the purpose of the video? I thought the seed head had to stay on the plant for as long as possible. Sorry if this is a real newbie question and you are all yawning at me.
Thanks Bronwyn