Nivalis with petticoat!

[zephirine]

The anatomic view is really interesting and makes the snowdrop look even more fascinating and unusual

I fully agree with you, Alan! It is interesting to see how the 3 rows are rotated from the previous one: the inner "normal" segments are rotated 60° from the outer segments, and the 3 "petticoat" segments are rotated again, thus becoming parallel to the outer segments. Mother Nature definitely likes symmetry, don't you thinK?

[Alan_b]

I see that there are small green markings on the tips of the outer petals.  Do they all show this feature?

[Alan_b]

She says she found them all in the ditches, along the roads around her home (in a fairly wooded area at the foot of the Vosges mountains), and transplanted them every other year in her garden.
She went back to the places where they came from these days, but didn't see any petticoats there.

Do you mean that your friend has populated her garden with snowdrops from the locale and has subsequently found the petticoat type amongst those in her garden but not elsewhere?  Or do you mean that your friend has found the petticoat type growing wild in previous years and selected those to collect for her garden?   I just want to be clear because I think this is very interesting; a whole new type of snowdrop, in fact.   

[zephirine]

I'll have to wait for my friend to answer your first question, Alan (re. green markings).
As for the second question, your first sentence is correct: garden populated from the local snowdrop population, petticoats found later in her garden among them, but no petticoat found in the local population outside her garden.

Funny enough that Brian saw one similar snowdrop with a petticoat in a park, precisely this spring...It would be a strange coincidence that a "new type" of snowdrop, as you put it, appears twice,  the same year or nearly, in so remote places...
So let's not be too enthusiastic (though it's hard!!!) , it still has to be confirmed in the coming years!

[Alan_b]

Sorry, I'll try to curb my enthusiasm.  But even if these particular snowdrops revert to normal next year, there is still the possibility of there being a stable form waiting to be discovered.

[Brian Ellis]

Funny enough that Brian saw one similar snowdrop with a petticoat in a park, precisely this spring...

The garden we saw that one example is pictured here and labelled 'Fairy Rings?'  - also where 'Smiley' originated.
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=2604.msg76656#msg76656

It was the only example we noticed in the whole garden and was in a named clump (can't remember which but say 'S.Arnott').  The amazing thing to me was that it was the previous day!

[zephirine]

The amazing thing to me was that it was the previous day!

...and unfair enough, Brian, that only one such snowdrop appeared to a devoted dropholic like you....while dozens appeared to a mere general gardener like my friend (and me!) 

[Alan_b]

Brian, I think you should suggest to the garden owner that they find and isolate that particular snowdrop, so they ( and we) can see if it does the same thing next year.  To my mind, the fact that we now know it is not alone makes it all the more interesting.

[Brian Ellis]

...and unfair enough, Brian, that only one such snowdrop appeared to a devoted dropholic like you....while dozens appeared to a mere general gardener like my friend (and me!) 

Yes I quite agree, very unfair   I know if they had a lot they would certainly be passing them around.

Alan we have already suggested that to them and they are doing so.

[zephirine]

I see that there are small green markings on the tips of the outer petals.  Do they all show this feature?

According to my friend, no, Alan, not all the "petticoated" plants have green marks.
She has therefore isolated those with green tips, and planted them in a different place. Thanks for pointing it out!

There is another point that I noticed in her pictures. Two "anatomic" views, on her blog, show two rather different plants. (The outer segments have been removed). The length ratio between the petticoat segments and the inner segments, is quite different! And the notch, at the end of the inner segments, is different too.
Does it mean that the various individuals might not come from a single, "first-of-a-kind", petticoated" variant? (I mean, since vegetative reproduction results in similar characteristics). Could those two individuals result from seed propagation from one original plant? Or do vegetative replicas also show variants?
As someone on a french forum noticed, there seem to be a few anthers remaining... which could mean the plants are not fully sterile...
What do you think ? (I'm not very familiar with detailed anatomo-botanical matters, I'm afraid  )

[Alan_b]

Does it mean that the various individuals might not come from a single, "first-of-a-kind", petticoated" variant? (I mean, since vegetative reproduction results in similar characteristics). Could those two individuals result from seed propagation from one original plant? Or do vegetative replicas also show variants?

There is a famous snowdrop, 'Atkinisii' (now annoyingly renamed 'James Backhouse') that often produces odd flowers but never exactly the same oddness two years running.  Or 'Mrs Thompson' that usually produces extra petal or even extra flowers but different from bulb to bulb.  So yes, vegetative replicas can show variants, but equally well you could have seedlings which may or may not be from the same parent (if it's a recessive characteristic in the local gene pool).   

[Alan_b]

Zephirine, just out of interest, would it be possible to post links to your friend's blog and the French forum where this snowdrop has been discussed?  I can always use Google Translate for the more difficult French words.

[Maggi Young]

Zephirine gave the link to her friend's blog in her first post:
http://le-jardin-de-berthille.over-blog.com/article-histoire-de-tepales-115905344.html

[Alan_b]

Oops yes.  Zephrine made her embedded link so well that I missed that it was there.  And I was mesmerised by the picture!

If Zephrine can post it, you wouldn't mind hosting a link to somebody else's forum, would you Maggi?

[Maggi Young]

If Zephrine can post it, you wouldn't mind hosting a link to somebody else's forum, would you Maggi?

Alan, the SRGC has no problems whatsoever with sharing information about and between other sites.
This is something that we actively encourage, and we have always done so.