Deciduous Azalea naming help?

[Paul T]

Howdy All,

I have today purchased a semi-double pale yellow deciduous azalea.  It is extremely distinctive in that the flowers are semi-double rather than a true hose-in-hose like some of them I have seen.  The "inner" flower is decidedly smaller and doesn't open out flat.  The heads of flowers were much smaller and looser than the bigger "ball" type flowerheads of some of the varieties, but it seemed to be more freely flowering on smaller wood than so often you see in potted deciduous azaleas where you tend to get a few big heads at the larger terminal points and only heavy flowering once they're larger.  I do not have a photo of the flower as it is no longer in flower..... I saw it in flower a few weeks ago but couldn't afford it, and bought it today for a friend a couple of hours from here that I was talking to on the phone last night and had never seen one like it. 

Does the description ring any bells as to perhaps a name?  It DID have a name by the look of the label, but I have not been able to work out what it was as it is so badly faded.   I am hoping that with some names to choose from I "might" be able to match a name to the bits I can read.  I can just read the description which says "Pale yellow", although I wouldn't have called this "pale", but it definitely isn't a strong "hot" yellow but much more of a pastel yellow I guess.  Perhaps the term "Paler yellow" would be more accurate, as it is certainly paler than the normal stronger yellow varieties I have seen.

While we're on double deciduous azaleas...... take the description above and insert "pure white" for every place I have mentioned yellow and you have another plant that I have had for a number of years.  No name provided on it at the time, but I think I do have photos of it's flowers.  I would love a name for it to, just for reference.

And lastly... this year I bought one that was labelled with a commercial label as "double salmon" (this was a full colour printed label, not hand written or anything like that) and it was an apricoty/orange/pink shaded flower that was to me a true hose-in-hose flower where the inner flower was the same size as the outer flower.  I have a photo of these flowers as I bought it at flowering time because I just couldn't resist.  The coloured "commercial" label makes me wonder whether this one might actually have an official name of "Double Salmon", so can anyone verify whether this is a proper name for a deciduous azalea variety?

I have a few other non-named varieties, plus some other named ones, but I am particularly interested in the 3 I have mentioned above as they are double forms that aren't usually seen around here.  Anyone have any ideas as to names, or any way of perhaps tracking them down?  I can provide photos of the double white and the double salmon if they aren't immediately identifiable, but as I said, I don't have photos of the paler yellow one.

Thanks in anticipation!! 

[Maggi Young]

Paul, the only double type yellow azalea I am familiar with is the old ( pre 1870, I think) Ghent hybrid R. narcissiflorum It is a pretty, pale  but  clear , yellow but I'm not sure I'd describe the flowers as  much different from a "hose-in-hose" type.  As far as I'm concerned, it is an acceptable double .

[Lesley Cox]

The first "true" double azaleas (as distinct from hose-in-hose) were raised in New Zealand at Blue Mountain Nurseries, by Denis Hughes. Some are named ('Pavlova' is a gorgeous snowy white) and nowadays, some may be sold as strains within a colour range. I'm sure some will have found their way across the Tasman. All are stunningly beautiful and scented to boot.

[Paul T]

Maggi,

Thanks.  I guess it is possible that in the pots the flowers weren't opening correctly, giving them the smaller "hose" within the larger "hose"?  They are such a pure clean yellow.  I would call what I saw an acceptable double, just that the inner flower was smaller than the outer flower, giving an almost semi-double effect.  Do you know if there are any pcitures around, or should i just search on google under that name?  Does it have a particular name itself, or is just a Ghent hybrid of narcissiflorum?

Lesley,

If you grow any of the true doubles..... do they actually set seed, or have they converted everything to petals?

[Lesley Cox]

I have a couple Paul and they are sterile, but I think they are still being raised from seed at Blue Mountain, because there are new forms available most years. So some at least, must set seed, or whether maybe a particular strain of singles sets the seed which happen to give double flowers 0r something like that. I'm not sure.

[Paul T]

Lesley,

Thought that might have been the case..... like so many double flowers you need the semi-doubles to produce the double seed.  Would have been lovely to try some seed and see what we ended up with.  No idea whether any have been imported into Aus, but then I am not a collector of deciduous azaleas.  I jsut have a few that I have found and keep an eye out for doubles as I rather like them.   

My double white I mentioned on opening this thread is unstable in that it produces single flowers quite regularly as well.  The one picture I can find is almost a perfect head of single flowers I realised when I had a look last night, hoping to post a pic for identification.  I think it varies from single so full hose-in-hose, and I am wondering whether it is watering or something that affects which it produces.  By the sound of it the double yellow that Maggi referred to above is what mine is, but maybe in the pots it produces a semi-double effect with the inner flower not opening properly.  Who knows? 

[Maggi Young]

Paul, googling on Azalea Narcissiflorum will get you pix.

[Paul T]

Maggi,

Enough of the flowers in the pics had that "closed in" effect in the centre to have me believe that it is the correct thing.  Colour looks about right, giving allowances for computer screeens and cameras etc.  So it really dates from before 1900 then?  Wow.  Wonder why it is so uncommon here.  Is it regarded as a species, or variety.... with a name like narcissiflorum one would have thought a species, but you mention it is a hybrid?  It looks like the flowers are a bit smaller than many of the traditional varieties, so it also fits.  I may not have looked properly at the flowers when I originally saw it, and they may be much more perfect that I realised.  Or as I mentioned, perhaps effect of growing in a pot. 

I also note one site referring to 'Shiro-manyo', a double form of Mucronatum, aka 'Narcissiflorum'.  This is a double white, although the picture shows everythign from full double to hose-in-hose flowers on the one head.  I wonder if this may be the white I am growing?  Any ideas on a double white with a similar flower form to your Narcissiflorum?

Thanks again so very much for your help in this.  It is greatly appreciated.