Paeonia 2013

[chasw]

Well after those great pictures Gansu Mudan is now on my wanted list 

[Hans A.]

Thank you for the P. cambessedesii pics! Plants in their natural habitat tell more than a gardening book.
It is clear that also this heat loving species likes the roots to be sheltered from the heat by rocks. What is the exposition of the slope where they grow? Definitely not south I think!

They grow only on  shady northfacing slopes next to larger rocks, I have found this species in 50 up to perhaps 1250m - often together with Cyclamen balearicum (see pic.3), Crocus cambessedesii and Arum pictum.
As my garden is southfacing all this species are not easy to grow here.

[Matt]

They grow only on  shady northfacing slopes next to larger rocks, I have found this species in 50 up to perhaps 1250m - often together with Cyclamen balearicum (see pic.3), Crocus cambessedesii and Arum pictum.
As my garden is southfacing all this species are not easy to grow here.

Thx Hans! I completely agree...In my garden in NE Italy herbaceous Paeonia species grow well only in shade under deciduous trees or in half shade (east facing - morning sun only) under evergreen trees. P. clusii is the only one that can take full sun.

From what I remember (waiting for confirmation...) Lukas in Switzerland, Hans in SW Germany and Hendrik in Belgium also grow them with some shelter from the sun.

Paeonia species grow in full sun only on English gardening books! LOL (Gail...what is your opinion?)

Matt

[Gail]

Paeonia species grow in full sun only on English gardening books! LOL (Gail...what is your opinion?)

Matt

Well, depends on the species and the garden. There is a wonderful plant of P. emodi in full sun on the rock garden at Cambridge Botanic Garden but for many of us the words 'English gardens' and 'full sun' never seem to go together....

[Lukas H]

Hi there,

in my garden I grow some species in full sun. But they Show quiet fast senescences on the leaves.

Species I would only grow in dappled shade are qiui, jishanensis, mairei, anomala, veitchii and obovata. the others can take much sun, but the leaves are never looking that good. But growing rate is good. But the best planting site is as matt said close to decidous trees or part time sun sahded by the house. The woody species even more than the herbaceous species.

Lukas

[Leena]

The only peonies I grow in half shade are P.obovata ja P.daurica ssp mlokosewitchii, but here P.veitchii and P.anomala do well in full sun. Here also I have to grow P.officinalis forms in full sun, and in dry soil, otherwise they get root diseases easily. Of course we don't get as hot sun here as in southern Europe.
Now I have one year old seedlings of P.mairei, P.intermedia (seeds from Gothenburg Botanical garden) and P.daurica ssp macrophylla and I'm wondering where to plant them. P.intermedia perhaps in full sun in dry and the other two in half shade?
P.daurica, white, from ex Sicily (seed exchange this winter) seeds are starting to show roots  , perhaps they would like it in half shade also when they are grown?

[Leena]

I forgot to write that I have seedlings from P.x chameleon (how should these seedlings be called, because they are not P x chameleon any more, P.daurica sp?) and at first grew them in full sun, but even in last summer which was not very sunny, their leaves did not like it there so I moved them to half shade last autumn.

[Janis Ruksans]

I noted those beautiful shoots of Paeonia species nova from Iran with bright yellow flowers. They are 3 years old seedlings.

[David Nicholson]

Interesting that you should post that image today Janis. At yesterday's South West AGS Show a chap came into the member's plant sale with a few pots in a box that he asked to be put on the sales table in case anyone was interested in them for free. Amongst them were two Paeonia seedlings labelled as follows:-

"Paeonia Sp. Nova Iran, Talysh, 2000m, JJA 19199" I put £5 in the till and brought one pot home with me. With the pots was a coloured photograph of a yellowish Paeony which one chap on the plant stall said might be Molly the Witch!

Last night I had a look through the Jim Archibald papers on the SRGC Main Site and couldn't find any reference to Talysh, Iran and I also looked quickly through the JJA Seed Lists and could not find a reference to "19199" and looked to Maggi to see if she might be able to point me in the right direction. Maggi came up with the following:-

747.961 : #PAEONIA TOMENTOSA Azerbaijan. (A very little-known species. Plants from seed collected in the Iranian Talysh range, which runs from SE Azerbaijan on into Iran, in the 1960's (as P. wittmanniana) were compact with white flowers & most distinct. We saw yellow-flowered ones in another Iranian Talysh locality recently. This seed is from up towards Armenia, in the main body of the Caucasus, in NE Azerbaijan. Our own seedlings are as yet unflowered.)

For the sake of the record I'll try to post an image of my plant tomorrow although it looks no different to the images Janis has posted.

Did you collect the seed from which your plants were grown Janis?

[Maggi Young]

I cannot find anything approximating to the number 19199 so my thought about David's new plant is that  the number is a date not a collection number and  that the ORIGINAL seed from JJA would have been sown in 1999.
His  plant will be from a later sowing but  when seed is passed on it is
not unknown for a sowing date to be confused with a collection number and
carried on in error to the subsequent plants. Never underestimate the
capacity of information to become garbled !

 The comment in the notes for 747.961 in the Archibald lists suggest that there is are unknown yellows ( possibly P. tomentosa) that Jim mentions and so perhaps mystery plant may be one of those. 

[Tim Ingram]

Maggi - I thought I remembered a remarkable peony that Jim mentioned with strong yellow flowers, and a couple of plants were auctioned at Nottingham I think. It is referred to in Jenny's last seedlist in 2011 (and curses I didn't order any!) under the number 19199: Paeonia sp. nov. - apparently it 'rendered Jim absolutely speechless'!

[Maggi Young]

Super, Tim, you've come up trumps. Well done! I had only searched the main list,  and had not found that. It is on page 25 of the 2011 list :
http://files.srgc.net/archibald/seedlists/JJA_seeds/JJA_seeds_2011_January.pdf

So much for my theory! 
This is MUCH better!!

Edit - 2015 :
This is a copy from Geir Moen of a very informative article in AGS bulletin in 2014 by Henrik Zetterlund and Janis Ruksans
https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fpionisten.se%2Fonewebmedia%2FPaeonia%2520wendelboi.pdf

This photo from the wild is by forumist Frederic Depalle  from NW Iran - who wrote in facebook :" P. wendelboi -  it grows in the mountains, high elevation and very dry in summer. This one on a very steep slope. "

[Leena]

How interesting!
And what peony seeds in the old list, are they anywhere at all for sale any more?

[Roma]

I saw this Paeonia in a couple of gardens near Gothenburg when I was on the AGS trip last year.  They were calling it Paeonia iranica.  Is this the one you are growing, Janis?

[Matt]

RE: yellow peony from Iran.

On the Autumn 2010 JJ Archibald seed catalog there are TWO species from Iran: JJA 17180 PAEONIA SP. NOV. and JJA 19199 PAEONIA SP. NOV....and this causes great confusion in my opinion.

To follow is my "interpretation", but first please do have a look at the following article via this link:

http://www.srgc.org.uk/monthfeature/march2005/content.html

You have to scroll down to the middle of the article, where two peony species on the Elburz mountains (Gilan area) around the pass west to Asalem are shown. They are very different.

The YELLOW PEONY (P. iranica, P.persica or P. wendelboi, similar to molkosewitschii, shorter and more glaucous/coriaceous, but VERY far away from the classical location near Lagodekhi next to the border between N Azerbaijan & E Georgia) is probably the same as in JJA 19199, growing on the warm and dry side (in rain shade) of the pass and must be the one Janis, David and Roma talk about.

The WHITE PEONY (it is in fact P. tomentosa also growing on the Talish Mountains of S Azerbaijan & N Iran) is probably the same as in JJA 17180 - the one growing on the humid and wooded side of the pass.

More images of P. iranica (the YELLOW one):

http://staudeklubben-vestfold.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/paeonia-mlokosewitschi-var-wendelboi.html

More images of P. tomentosa (the WHITE one) can be seen in these pics by Marijn van den Brink:

http://photos.v-d-brink.eu/search/?searchWordsShort=paeonia&searchType=InAlbum&AlbumID=12517481&x=0&y=0

http://photos.v-d-brink.eu/Flora-and-Fauna/Asia/Iran-Elburz-mountains/10581644_xzNSgT/63/735321687_pU6pZ#!i=735321405&k=GcKQn6c

and here again:

http://www.jansalpines.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=20029

Matt