Paeonia 2013

[greenspan]

some remarks to the discussion about "true" emodi and how possibly to differ from the very similar hybrid 'Early Windflower'. i noticed 3 signs ('Early Windflower')...

1. when the flower bud just comes out, the color is not the clear white of the open petals. it's tinged with just a hint of rose, very difficult to realize, best to see at cloudy days.
2. when the flower period ends, when the petals start to fall down, some of the petals (not all, a few) show a remarkable pink blotch only at the base of the petal, quite small. i never noticed it. a friend visited my garden and i proudly presented my wonderful "emodi", even though it was the end of the flowering time. he picked a single petal and said something like this..."never saw a pink sign on a white emodi petal"...uuups...this was a clear sign of the parent anomala.
3. 'Early Windflower' set normally no seed. maybe it's a triploid form? don't know whether anomala or and emodi is are diploid or tetraploid. in 6 years my false emodi/'Early Windflower' made 2 (two!) seedcorms and only in one year. one grain germinated and this is what came out...very influenced by anomala in my opinion. it's the seedling in the middle of the foto, above are emodi-seedlings, the small ones are cambessedesii + below 2 seedlings of white obovata.

[Thomas Seiler]

And what about the carpels? As Matt said previously in this thread, the main feature of true P. emodi is the single carpel. Do the Windflowers have 2, 3 or more carpels? I do not grow them myself and cannot have a look ... 

[greenspan]

(Carsten Burkhardt's Web Project Paeonia - The Peony Database; scroll down to "Stern")

Stern (1946): Description Paeonia emodi: ...Carpels usually one, rarely two...

here my 'Early Windflower':

one carpel:      
two carpels:    

whole plant:

[Leena]

What a nice looking peony in a lovely setting.
I planted 'Early Windflower' last autumn, so it will probably not flower this year, but the seed raised P.emodi (if they are true) show buds, so it will be exciting to see how they will look.

[Gail]

Some beautiful images here 
For those of you who haven't seen Hong's Peonies of the World Volume II - His photos of a P. emodi from a population in Jiangcun Village, Gyirong County, Tibet show two carpels. As Greenspan illustrates so beautifully, carpels can vary within the same plant.

[Janis Ruksans]

Paeonia "iranica" blooming today.

[greenspan]

to me it seems to be a dwarf form of Paeonia daurica (whatever subspecies status). wonderful plant. 

@gail

thanks for the information in Hongs book about the possible carpel number of the emodi. it proves Stern's statement in his description from 1946.

[christian pfalz]

hi thomas,
nice paeonies, i see, you live not so far away from me 
cheers
chris

[Thomas Seiler]

Thank you for the photographs, greenspan. But would you say, your Windflower has usually one carpel, rarely two, like P. emodi, or usually two, rarely one? Or is it impossible to decide, as about half of the flowers has one and the other half two carpels? That would be the point.

[Thomas Seiler]

hi thomas,
nice paeonies, i see, you live not so far away from me 
cheers
chris

Hello Chris,
very nice to meet here in this global forum someone from nearby 
cheers Thomas

[greenspan]

today i checked the open flowers of my 'Early Windflower'...i would say about half/half one carpel/2 carpels. i think the discussion one or (rarely) 2 carpels is not helpful. we don't know what material wallich or stern had for examination...herbar material? plants in the wild? one stem of each of how many herbars?

i think i found a good + easy to detect sign to differ 'Early Windflower' from emodi ...the shape of the lower leaves!

emodi: entire or often deeply divided into two, or the terminal leaflet into three segments
anomala: the leaflets are pinnatisect with numerous narrow segments, some of which are deeply 2- or 3-lobed
(source: description Stern 1946)

also the 'Early Windflower' shows the 2-3 lobed leafs, a typical sign of its parent anomala ssp. veitchii. here leaf fotos of my anomala and 'Early Windflower'

anomala ssp. anomala (ex china/xinjiang):
anomala seedling:                                       

'Early Windflower':                                     
'Early Windflower'                                       

unfortunately if still have no adult emodi, only seedlings. but on Carsten Burkhardt's Web Project Paeonia you can see true emodi plants (scroll down to the fotos)...compare the leaves...none of the terminal leaflets are lobed!

[Jonny_SE]

This year we skipped spring and turned over to summer directly... 23*C today and Everything comes at once....Paeonia iranica....//Jonny

[Matt]

thx Gail for pointing out the two carpels on the pic in the second HDY peony book...quite peculiar...however I also noticed 5 carpels on my P. clusii where all books say it should have 2 to 4 carpels...I guess this is what is called true "polymorphism". I also suspect that in cultivation (often in better growing condition) the plants may look slightly different than those seen in nature.

...none of the terminal leaflets are lobed!

exactly...have a look at my post on the 17th of April...the image of the true P. emodi in Berlin BG...the terminal leaflets are always entire (and ALL flowers have only 1 carpel).

M.

[Matt]

Paeonia "iranica" blooming today.

thx Janis great P. iranica...any closer/detail pic available?

thx in advance :-))

m.

[Thomas Seiler]

Got this plant as a present when visiting peony friends. Unfortunately all information about it was lost except that it should be "something very special" and I should find out myself ...  Well, I think it is a P. mascula ...