September 2013 in the Southern Hemisphere

[Lesley Cox]

Thanks Maggi. No actual reason was given but I've had an email from the man who said "not" and I quote him (I think he's REALLY wrong now) "Definitely not 'Rip van Winkle' a hybrid bred in the early part of the 20th century, which has a totally different structure of tessalated petals.. He says it appears to fit the description of Nar. capax plenus, "Queen Anne's Double Daffodil" (syn. N. eyestettensis) and first recorded around 1601."

You are quite right - why would I doubt that! and if I'd used my brain and gone first to the Wells miniature daff book, I could have answered both pics. Queen Anne's is quite right and is also known now as 'Pencrebar' and I think that's why I couldn't think of its name because I didn't realize it and QA's were the same thing. Now I know. The Wells picture of 'Rip van Winkle is pretty horrid, but I'm sure is, as you say, close enough to be RvW. I'll email back to my friend and put him right. (He won't like that!)

[fermi de Sousa]

The second Onco for us - Pat Toolan raised this one - Iris kirkwoodiae x iris atropurpurea;
Iris lutescens (I think);
Narcissus 'Splatter' - just to cheer up Lesley and take her mind off RvW!
cheers
fermi

[annew]

Lesley, your double daffs are, I think, RVW the first one and Pencrebar the second. Pencrebar is NOT the same as Queen Anne's Double (Eystettensis) which is a much older variety, pale lemon shading to a green centre in colour and with very glaucous leaves.
See: http://daffseek.org/query/query-detail.php?photo2=09dc61ea5b05497b659e9820221919e8&pagenum1=1&
and: http://daffseek.org/query/query-detail.php?value1=Eystettensis&lastpage=1&
Sorry didn't see the post earlier.

[Maggi Young]

Can someone ID the two double Narcissus for me please? I had the former as 'Rip van Winkle' but was told at the weekend that it isn't. I should know the other but the mind isn't working.

First one is a bit ragged but near enough  to Rip van Winkle in my eyes .... what reason was given for it not to be so?
 
I think Second one is Narcissus  Eystettensis  syn. Queen Anne's Double

Hmmm, I did think the second one was QA double but  - but Anne W disagrees and she's probably right  in saying it is Pencrebar - though I find it is very hard to  distinguish them     

[fermi de Sousa]

The problem is that there is "Queen Anne's Double Daffodil" which is a synonym of 'Eystettensis' and is quite distinct from "Queen Anne's Doubel Jonquill" which is a synoym of Narcissus jonquilla 'Flore Pleno' which looks a bit like 'Pencrebar'.
I have the double jonquil which might be in flower soon, but I've lost 'Pencrebar' and 'Eystettensis' - at least I haven't seen them flower for a long time
cheers
fermi

[Lesley Cox]

Right!

I'm happy now that mine is 'Pencrebar' and James A Wells, says the old name for it is Queen Anne's double jonquil, referring to Queen Anne of England and I misread him in that I didn't connect that there is also Queen Anne's double daffodil, referring to Queen Anne of Austria, and it is this one that is Eystettensis, which I definitely don't have.

Thanks everyone for sorting me out. Of course it would be easier if the various queens through the centuries had used a few more names. There's a preponderance of Annes and Katherines  and Marys. Why couldn't their royal parents have occasionally chosen Kylie or Charlene, Shania or Mickayla, even Aleisha?

[David Nicholson]

............. or even Lesley

[Lesley Cox]

You've hit the button David Burns got it right when he wrote " Saw ye Bonnie....."

[annew]

Fermi, you've sorted us out. Too many Queens

[fermi de Sousa]

Here's a pic of the double jonquil, which as far as I can tell is NOT 'Pencrebar' but should be what's called "Queen Anne's Double Jonquil"
cheers
fermi

[Tim Ingram]

I've been trying to find an image of 'Eystettensis' but realise I only have it as a slide! (Another reason to get a scanner). The flowers are much fuller than Fermi's jonquil and a softer yellow. It must be pretty uncommon in gardens - I've only seen it at Beth Chatto's and searched for bulbs for a long time, until finding some on Rannveig Wallis' list. It is a lovely plant, in the same league and desirability as things like 'Cedric Morris'.

[Michael J Campbell]

Here is what I have as Narcissus Eystettensis Queen Anne's Double ? not sure if it is correct.

[arillady]

http://daffseek.org/query/query-detail.php?value1=Eystettensis&lastpage=1
the above link shows and describes 'Eystettensis'

[Tim Ingram]

Just like Anne's picture. So is Michael's 'Pencrebar'?

[David Nicholson]

Just like Anne's picture. So is Michael's 'Pencrebar'?

I would say so, and especially so if the description of Eystettensis on Daffseek as being "sulphur yellow" is correct.