Croatian Iris

[Pauli]

This June I pictured some nice Iris plants on the heights above the pass over the Velebit between Gospic and Karlobag. I understand, that the first is Iris pallida, but the second? The second type was in a mixed colony, but much rarer than Iris pallida, In the open forests nearby I also found Iris graminea.
Has anybody a name for this plant?

[Oron Peri]

Herbert,

Your second Iris has been described in the 60's as Iris  croatica and was thought to be endemic to Croatia.
Now it is considered to be just a form of Iris x germanica.

[Pauli]

Thank you very much Oron.

It is curious, to see two species of the same genus growing in a mixed population - with no obvious hybrids!

[arillady]

Herbert and Oron there is a huge clump of this iris which has lighter standards than the falls on a nearby old property that I would love to find out what it is and it is growing with a white germanica? as well
First and 3rd photo are the same iris. Both introduced to Australia in the 1800s.

[Oron Peri]

Thank you very much Oron.

It is curious, to see two species of the same genus growing in a mixed population - with no obvious hybrids!

Herbert,

Iris x germanica is an old hybrid of which one of the parents is probably I. pallida.
It has been introduced to many countries by the Muslims that used to plant them in graveyards.

[Oron Peri]

Herbert and Oron there is a huge clump of this iris which has lighter standards than the falls on a nearby old property that I would love to find out what it is and it is growing with a white germanica? as well
First and 3rd photo are the same iris. Both introduced to Australia in the 1800s.

Pat,
The first and third are definitely I. x germanica.
The general colour can be lighter or darker, in particularly the falls.
As for the white: there is a white form of germanica, again origins not known but most probably hybridized with Iris albicans that again was introduced by Muslim pilgrims that brought it back from Saudi Arabia where it is native.
In my opinion it is impossible to say if a white form is a true species or a hybrid unless it arrives from wild populations in S. Arabia or Yemen.

[arillady]

Thanks Oron that answers a long standing question.

[arillady]

Here is another photo of the two tone blue iris. It is smaller than the white. In this very old patch there were a few whites but the majority were the blue. There also happened to be a half white half blue one too.

[Lesley Cox]

All this is very interesting because just this morning I have had a note from Bernard Pryor, Editor of the NZIS Bulletin, about a probably hybrid between pallida and germanica. At NZIS Convention in November, we saw a superb iris which the owner said was the old American TB called 'Melodrama' but Tony Hall, keynote speaker at the Convention thought it was a hybrid between pallida and germanica. It was surprisingly like your first picture Pauli and I attach it here though it's not the best picture. Whatever, it was a superb plant and I and others who saw it have our tongues hanging out for it.

[Oron Peri]

Lesley,

As i mentioned earlier Iris germanica is a hybrid of which one of the parents is most probably Iris pallida.
According to what you have been told it is assumed that Iris germanica was crossed back with I. pallida but unless this process  is documented i don't think there is a way to confirm it.

Iris pallida is much more on the blue scale rather then purple and usually very!! highly scented. (actually one of the best scented plants in my opinion)

Attached a photo i took on Mt. Hermon where some wild population of I. pallida can be seen.

[Lesley Cox]

If what we know as germanica or x germanica is, in fact, a hybrid, is it known what the other parent is likely to be Oron?

[Pauli]

Last week I showed pictures of my mystery Iris from last year to the famous Austrian plants man Fritz Kummert. He instantly recognised the plant and even the place where I found it: He told me, that it is a hybrid between Iris pallida and Iris variegata. I did not see a plant of the second, but he remembered it growing there, at least years ago!

[Gerhard Raschun]

Herbert, sorry, I haven`t seen your post earlier...no time to visite the forum

Your pict shows in fact the hybrid between I. pallida and I. variegata, we know it as I. x sambucina or I. x squalens, depends on the colour of the flowers-but it is the same.

It isn`t a typical hybrid, because the flowers of the hybrids are mostly yellowish, brownish, and rather rare blue. Propably the reason is, that in this area it occurs the blue flowering subspecies I. variagata var. reginae as a part of the natural cross.

The first pict I would determine as I. illyrica, a member of the pallida Group. It occurs from Triest to the south to Dalmatica, rather near to the sea. It shows darker flowers and the leaves are more dwarf. In Dalmatica it goes into an other subspecies....

I. croatica is rarly found in the mountains near of Zagreb, it`s nearly dissapeared. All plants, which I have got the last years under that name were true I. x sambucina. I. croatica belongs to the I. aphylla-group, with divide flowerstem ! It is rather a synonym to I. aphylla and has nothing to do with I. pallida or I. x germanica !