Cyclamen 2014

[David Nicholson]

I know Roma had Cyclamen alpinum out in her greenhouse some time ago, here's one of mine today. This one from seed (SRGC 07/1044) sown in 2008. Others from the same batch showing colour under glass as are a few more in the garden.

[fenius]

I don't have any actually, but I wanted to share that a friend from my greek forum found some extraordinarily large graecum bulbs in her cottage garden after getting rid of a large cane patch (thank god before the tractor got to them..) The largest of them weighs 17.5 kilos!! She gave them ancient philosophers' names and said she will move them in some kind of secret garden of hers... She's still trying to establish how old they might be! Care to guess?
http://fyta.createforumhosting.com/topic-t10199.html

[Mark Griffiths]

nice David.

I have a problem with C.alpinum, I'd appreciate advice and experiences of others. Sometimes I have a nice healthy plant that keeps going for years but all too often I only get a couple of leaves and these are subject to wilt so that the plant just gets weaker and weaker.

I bought a couple of tubers from Wisley a few years back - as far as I can tell I've treated them the same but one is in full leaf with buds, the other has no leaves and just a miserable tiny leaf bud under the chippings that looks as if it will probably never see the light of day.

Maybe I should keep them in a frame? Maybe they are not getting enough air movement in my small greenhouse?

[Maggi Young]

I don't have any actually, but I wanted to share that a friend from my greek forum found some extraordinarily large graecum bulbs in her cottage garden after getting rid of a large cane patch (thank god before the tractor got to them..) The largest of them weighs 17.5 kilos!! She gave them ancient philosophers' names and said she will move them in some kind of secret garden of hers... She's still trying to establish how old they might be! Care to guess?
http://fyta.createforumhosting.com/topic-t10199.html

Seems miraculous that these huge plants have been rescued. I hope they will go on to live many more years - they must be VERY old indeed......

[SJW]

I have a problem with C.alpinum, I'd appreciate advice and experiences of others. Sometimes I have a nice healthy plant that keeps going for years but all too often I only get a couple of leaves and these are subject to wilt so that the plant just gets weaker and weaker.
I bought a couple of tubers from Wisley a few years back - as far as I can tell I've treated them the same but one is in full leaf with buds, the other has no leaves and just a miserable tiny leaf bud under the chippings that looks as if it will probably never see the light of day.
Maybe I should keep them in a frame? Maybe they are not getting enough air movement in my small greenhouse?

Mark - I'd have thought they'd do well in a greenhouse or a frame, as long as the ventilation is adequate. On wilting leaves, I noticed a couple on my otherwise healthy alpinum this week. On examination those leaf stalks under the grit had started to decay, presumably because I'd slightly overwatered. Most of the time I water plants from below to try and keep the top of the tuber and the growing points dry but if I'm in a rush, or if the sun's out and I think I can get away with it, they get watered from above (seedlings don't seem to mind either way). So perhaps treat them more like cilicium than coum (ie a drier, warmer environment)? On the differing performances of the two Wisley tubers given the same conditions...who knows! Perhaps the roots on the weaker plant had previously had some unnoticed damage (too wet? too dry?) and this has set it back as it needs to grow new roots before putting energy into leaves etc? But as you've noted in a previous post, some strains/selections just seem to be more vigorous and better growers than others.

[SJW]

I don't have any actually, but I wanted to share that a friend from my greek forum found some extraordinarily large graecum bulbs in her cottage garden after getting rid of a large cane patch (thank god before the tractor got to them..) The largest of them weighs 17.5 kilos!! She gave them ancient philosophers' names and said she will move them in some kind of secret garden of hers... She's still trying to establish how old they might be! Care to guess?
http://fyta.createforumhosting.com/topic-t10199.html

That last tuber is absolutely huge! As Maggi says, they must be very old. And they've clearly liked the soil/location/space they've been grown in. As other forumists who have examples themselves can testify, C graecum is long-lived in cultivation and can get very large indeed. There was a show winner at the Cyclamen Society show a few years ago (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=6036.msg166645#msg166645) that was in a 146 cm (57 inch) circumference pot. It was a CSE plant collected in 1991 so it was at least 22+ years old then (depending on how old the tuber already was when collected). Of course, the conditions are different in cultivation and, unlike wild plants, they don't have to take whatever is thrown at them - drought, competition from other plants etc.

[cycnich]

nice David.

I have a problem with C.alpinum, I'd appreciate advice and experiences of others. Sometimes I have a nice healthy plant that keeps going for years but all too often I only get a couple of leaves and these are subject to wilt so that the plant just gets weaker and weaker.

I bought a couple of tubers from Wisley a few years back - as far as I can tell I've treated them the same but one is in full leaf with buds, the other has no leaves and just a miserable tiny leaf bud under the chippings that looks as if it will probably never see the light of day.

Maybe I should keep them in a frame? Maybe they are not getting enough air movement in my small greenhouse?

I have plants like this in my collection every year and it is not confined to any one species it affects most of them. Plants that have done well for years decide they do not want to grow. The reason in almost every instance is I have over watered despite the plants being treated the same. A simple test is to put your finger down the side of the tuber and try to lift it, if it lifts it has no roots they have rotted, no roots means no top growth. Sometimes with care they will recover, sometimes the damage has been done and the tuber itself will rot. This may not be your problem at all but with a large collection it is not possible to get it right all of the time and losses are a fact of life. I am not sure any of this helps but I cannot remember a season when every plant has been perfect there are always losses. On the bright side this makes space for new ones.

[johnw]

Cyclamen adjaricum (Chakva near Batumi, Adjaria, Georgia) from Pilous seed is getting ready to flower under lights.  I can find no description of it anywhere.  Hardy or tender? Anyone?

johnw - +1c, up to 50mm on the way this weekend.

[SJW]

Cyclamen adjaricum (Chakva near Batumi, Adjaria, Georgia) from Pilous seed is getting ready to flower under lights.  I can find no description of it anywhere.  Hardy or tender? Anyone?
johnw - +1c, up to 50mm on the way this weekend.

John, I'm not sure this is a valid name - there were/are a number of different names used by Soviet botanists for Cyclamen species from the former USSR - forumists from that part of the world would be better placed to comment though. My understanding is that they are all forms of Cyclamen coum or, in the case of your plant from Georgia, C. coum subsp. caucasicum.  It certainly shouldn't be tender but caucasicum is reputedly not as hardy as C. coum so perhaps better with some winter protection?

[David Nicholson]

After looking in Grey-Wilson (2002) he says adzharicum (note spelling John) is, as Steve says, synonymous with Cyclamen coum ssp. caucasicum

[ashley]

Cyclamen adjaricum (Chakva near Batumi, Adjaria, Georgia) from Pilous seed is getting ready to flower under lights.  I can find no description of it anywhere.  Hardy or tender? Anyone?

It's hardy here John (so down to -7°C or so at least) and a very handsome plant with bigger, brighter flowers than many of my other coums.

Kirsten also reported it as fully hardy in Denmark, and showed pictures here.

[Mark Griffiths]

Thanks Pat and Steve, I usually find it's swings and roundabouts - I usually have seedlings which are always interesting and as you say losses make way for more.

Here's a seedling from C.persicum var autumnale, original plant was from Peter Moore, I've never got it right to flower in the autumn but some of them are fine plants. This one is a lovely colour.

[johnw]

Thanks Ashley, SJW & David.  So another coum type, there are so many conflicting opinions as to which coum ssp. is the hardiest; lately we were told ssp. caucasicum was hardier than even kuznetzovii.  It would be nice to start with the hardiest seed type to replicate Ian's success with coum.   Here it needs snow cover and detests wet icy conditions and so they last but a couple of years.

We'll also need another 10-15c to be on the safe side with this one outdoors!

Ah more hits with that spelling David.

johnw - +4c and overcast.

[SJW]

I have plants like this in my collection every year and it is not confined to any one species it affects most of them. Plants that have done well for years decide they do not want to grow. The reason in almost every instance is I have over watered despite the plants being treated the same. A simple test is to put your finger down the side of the tuber and try to lift it, if it lifts it has no roots they have rotted, no roots means no top growth. Sometimes with care they will recover, sometimes the damage has been done and the tuber itself will rot. This may not be your problem at all but with a large collection it is not possible to get it right all of the time and losses are a fact of life. I am not sure any of this helps but I cannot remember a season when every plant has been perfect there are always losses. On the bright side this makes space for new ones.

Not so much helps, Pat, as reassures the rest of us that yearly losses are quite common! This example has puzzled me this season. Two sister CSE graecum plants have always been treated, as far as I can tell, in the same way. With one of them last autumn, the leaf buds were very slow to emerge, then froze unfurled for weeks before opening at a fraction of their usual size. It reminds me of an embarrassing uncle trying out a trendy new hairstyle.  The tuber is firm and secure in the compost so the roots should be OK and there's no wilt on the leaves...

[SJW]

Here's a seedling from C.persicum var autumnale, original plant was from Peter Moore, I've never got it right to flower in the autumn but some of them are fine plants. This one is a lovely colour.

It is a good colour. It may not be the autumn but it's earlier than any of my persicums! When was the seed sown, Mark? I have a few seedlings but still some way from flowering size.