Pleiones -- Paul Cumbleton's hybrids

[Eric Locke]

Lovely Paul .
Nice to see another pure white hybrid.

Eric

[daveyp1970]

Paul that is to a Pleione newbie stunning but can i ask a question,i know pleiones produce bulbils to aid propagation and some not so many so the newer hybrids tend to be quite pricey untill there is enough about to not warrant such a price(supply and demand like every other new plant)but can they not be mass produced like phaleanopsis(meristem prop)if they could im sure it would open some fantastic to plants to us mere mortals.this might sound like a daft question and one you have been asked millions of times and for that i'm sorry

[mark smyth]

I think it's a good question but could supermarkets sell Pleiones in the numbers that Phalaeopsis are sold? I'd say it's all down to cost

[Luc Gilgemyn]

I don't think Pleione are commercially "interesting" enough to attract the attention of the "big boys" who would be able to propagate on a large scale. 
I personally would'nt like that anyway - I prefer them to be "rare" and rather hard to get - makes it all the more fun and gratifying when you obtain one..   

[daveyp1970]

i wasn't thinking of total mass production but was wondering if it was possible at all.I understand there is not the commercial appeal there well not to the masses but i still would rather joe blogg down the road have a go or at least able to have a go with a newer hybrid,would it not be better in a lots of hands rather than the select few i'm sure the flower would not loose any beauty because a few more people have it or is it people want it for its rarity not for its beauty.I suppose this a very personal argument(if thats the right word)i personally love being able to offer my plants to people and then they show me they have flowered it.
   I'm sorry to Paul i never meant to take his thread here yet again i just wanted to no if tissue culture was possible?

[Paul Cumbleton]

Certainly not a silly question, and one I was interested to know the answer to many years ago as it would be nice to be able to make new hybrids available more quickly. It is possible to propagate Pleione by tissue culture and this has been done by researchers. However,as others have pointed out, the market for Pleione is so small that it is not commercially viable for them to be propagated this way. Even if someone did it, because of the small number of potential sales they would not achieve the same economy of scale as that achieved for say Phalaenopsis. The only reason tissue-cultured Phalaenopsis are so cheap now is that they are produced quite literally by the millions. So tissue-cultured Pleione would not be cheap. Also, although home tissue culture is not completely impossible for amateurs, it is difficult and -in the UK at least- access to the chemicals etc required is almost impossible.

For these reasons, it is unlikely that tissue culture will ever be used for Pleione and we have little choice but to continue to propagate in the usual way. The typical cost of a new hybrid is therefore actually extremely good value for money when you consider the time and effort that have gone into making it available. It was ten years after I first started breeding that I was able to make my first hybrids available for sale and even then I had only maybe 20 spare bulbs of each. Even then, these were mixed clones - it will be even more years before selected, named clones can be offered of any of them. Looked at in this way, £25 - £30 say for a new hybrid seems very reasonable.

[Luc Gilgemyn]

i personally love being able to offer my plants to people and then they show me they have flowered it.
 

So do I Dave, so do I !  That's part of the fun isn't it !! 

[mark smyth]

 £25 - £30 say for a new hybrid seems very reasonable.

Much the same for a snowdrop.

[daveyp1970]

paul and mark im not saying 25-30 pound for a new plant is a lot of money,i understand what goes into producing a new hybrid,i used to grow paphiopedilums and im not going to tell you how much i used to pay for my Rothschildianum plants,so i really do understand the cost of good plants which come at a premium,all i am saying is paul hybrids are that good to look at it would be fantatstic if there was a lot more of them out there quicker and i was wondering if tissue culture was an avenue,and i know mark with inn snowdrop circles some people dont want there plants into mass cultivation(keeping there rarity value)which i just cant get my head around because unless these people keep the plants just to themselves then there rarity value is lost everytime a single individual gets one.No matter which genus of plants i just think (if it was my plant and i have a hardy geranium thats going to field trials soon)i would get a better buz knowing a lot of people want and are growing my plant than a select few.Yet again i apologise for taking this thread away from your superb plants maybe this should be discussed on another thread, i find this subject fascinating.

[Eric Locke]

paul and mark im not saying 25-30 pound for a new plant is a lot of money,i understand what goes into producing a new hybrid,i used to grow paphiopedilums and im not going to tell you how much i used to pay for my Rothschildianum plants,so i really do understand the cost of good plants which come at a premium,all i am saying is paul hybrids are that good to look at it would be fantatstic if there was a lot more of them out there quicker and i was wondering if tissue culture was an avenue,and i know mark with inn snowdrop circles some people dont want there plants into mass cultivation(keeping there rarity value)which i just cant get my head around because unless these people keep the plants just to themselves then there rarity value is lost everytime a single individual gets one.No matter which genus of plants i just think (if it was my plant and i have a hardy geranium thats going to field trials soon)i would get a better buz knowing a lot of people want and are growing my plant than a select few.Yet again i apologise for taking this thread away from your superb plants maybe this should be discussed on another thread, i find this subject fascinating.

Dave I sympathise with you. It has long bugged me too that the "chosen few" always obtain the plants most of us never get a chance to obtain . This applies in all plant groups, where it depends on "who you are" and "who you know".

Eric

[Michael J Campbell]

Eric,I agree with you 100%. It is a point I was afraid to make myself. The same ideas apply to the shows,If you know what I mean.

[LarsB]

Although i recognise the masonic communities within the gardening world, I've found from the beginnign of my carreer in amateur gardening a different bred of gardeners will to share their plants, also with the less expeienced gardener. I had much help from very experienced plantsmen when I first started and I try to give some back to newcomers.

I've also experienced that the masonic communities also hold a larger number of people with a questionable attitude towards the plants origins. Another reason to keep a healthy distance. 

[mark smyth]

Davey I would love to here more about your Geranium. Will you send me a photo? Diversifying again, sorry, Galanthus, are now being micropropped in Belfast and sent to Holland for growing on. I really have to go back and see how they are getting on.

[luis]

Can anyone tell me when i begin to put whater in my pleione bulbs? (sorry by my macarronic english)   

[Maggi Young]

Luis, there is much  helpful information on cultivation on Paul Cumpleton's website :
http://www.pleione.info/  

For instance; this is what he says about watering:

"Watering

The critical time is early in the season. The roots usually start to grow more or less as the flowers fade and at this time it is important to give only a little water - the aim is to keep the compost only-just damp and make the newly-emerging roots go searching for moisture. If the mix is too wet at this time there is a danger the new roots will rot. Once however the roots are well established (often evidenced by rapid leaf growth) watering can be increased substantially. Pleiones come from areas which get the summer monsoon. As long as your mix is very free draining, it is difficult to give them too much water once they are actively growing. Rain water, soft tap water or RO (reverse-osmosis) are best. If you have very hard tap water, this is OK but I would be cautious about keeping them too wet. If possible, keep them open to the weather in summer so they can be rained on. They love it! Personally I take the roof glass out of the glasshouse they are in so the rain can fall in on them. It also keeps them cooler. As days shorten in the autumn, growth slows and finally stops and the leaves start to go yellow. This is the time to reduce watering and as the leaf colour starts to go brown, stop watering altogether and allow them to completely dry out. The leaves will finally fall off and the pseudobulbs enter their dormant phase."