Lilium species

[pontus]

here is the true wardii, photographed in 2007 in my friend Tim Whiteley's garden in evenley, northamptonshire., who grows this sp to perfection, easilly getting 20-30 flowers on a few exceptional specimens...it really is a beauty of the lily world!

Pontus

[rob krejzl]

Paul,

This was from several years ago, before I fell ill. I didn't get the bulb, just pollen - with very uneven seed-set. Lots of chaff in poorly filled pods. The seeds were viable though, so I hope the person who wanted them was satisfied. My own seedlings I lost because I wasn't able to care for them properly - the garden itself is still recovering from years of almost total neglect and weeding has become my full-time vocation.

I did once see a very interesting plant up at Sally J's that looked to have flowers with characters of both wardii and duchartrei. Not seen it again to confirm my impressions.

[Lesley Cox]

Thank you Pontus, for that lovely picture. So it seems I've been nursing a snake in my bosom all along! Such is life. Rob, at least it means that the seed I haven't sent to you is not what you wanted anyway. So sorry about that but I'm glad to have it cleared up at last.

[gote]

Lesley,
A quite unusual form of Lankongense or whatever. My lankongense are uniformly pink.
Lesley and Pontus,
I think that it is necessary to look at the whole plant - especially since this group of lilies is not well described in literature that is available to readers who are not sufficiently fluent in Chinese. The picture of L. wardii in flora of China shows fairly broad leaves. My lankongense/duchartreii have considerably more nnarrow leaves. they also send the stem a coupe of decimeters sideways from the bulb before they emerge.
All,
There are many things to consider when determining  a lily species. The shape of the infloresence is important. umbel or raceme. (Yes I know this is diffcult in a plant that has only one flower) A Lilium has always two bracts to the pedicel (not obvious if only one flower) but lilies that sometimes have branched pedicels sometimes have the second bract sitting halfway up on the pedicel. (Like lancifolium and speciosum). An umbellate lilium like dauricum or bulbiferum has the bracts in a whorl at the bottom of the umbel. Some lilies like the martagon group and the Americans have most leaves in whorl(-s). Some have very distinctive bulbs - especially Americans but also others are distinctive like lopophorum which is very narrow. Some have articulated bulb scales. some (henryii, rosthornii) have two distinctly different types of leaves on the stem. The shape of the nectary may also be distincive.
We have the problem that type specimen usually are from the wild and may be different from the same plant grown in a garden. The number of flowers is usually misleading if it is 1-3. A garden grown specimen may have many more.
 
PLEASE take pictures of the whole plant!!

May all our slugs die in the winter
Göte

       

[Lesley Cox]

My group of perhaps a dozen - in a large pot but hopefully to be planted out when properly dormant by which time we will have moved - are from seed and there is a lot of variation.. Four flowered last summer and only one had that green, the others all either pink or pink and white with various spotting. Because they've only lived in the pot their stature has not been true but this should improve as they become garden orientated.

[vanozzi]

Update to my post on Oct 11th  regarding L. poilanei, majoensis and and later postings re wardii.

I am extremely happy to report
majoensis 7 seedlings so far and the same number of poilanei have germinated.

I was then sent some wardii seed from a very generous guy (my wardii plants had never produced seed, ever, so I thought I may have only one clone sourced from different people in Australia).
12 wardii seeds have now germinated.
I may have even done  a little gig

[Maggi Young]

For western US species germination, take a look at this article :

For species lilies in general, I'll post something tonight when I get home from work.  But I will tell you this:  germination may take a long time, but it's the easy part.  The hard part is keeping the plants alive through hot summer weather.  If the bulbs get too warm, they rot.  This does not apply to modern hybrids, which are bulletproof.  By the way, there are lots of other plants that have complex germination requirements, such as Peony and Corydalis for example.  But none of them are as hard to keep alive as species lilies, in my opinion.

Edit: broken links removed and Western Species Germination notes added.

Gene Mirro has kindly send  files to replace the broken links which resulted from an arlier crash in his former website. I add them here. There is also  a larger file on the germination of western species, which I will try to reduce to enable it to be posted here.

Please note also Gene's lily articles in the International Rock Gardener: issues 31, 32 and 33 ..
see here : http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/index.php?log=international

Edited to add IRG issue numbers and link 

[Maggi Young]

Here is Gene's fuller article on Western Lily germination, divided into 7 sections to allow for posting here....

 Pages 1 to 3 from western species germination.pdf (245.49 kB - downloaded 347 times.)

 Pages 1 to 3 from western species germination.pdf (245.49 kB - downloaded 357 times.)

 Pages 4 to 6 western species germination.pdf (226.2 kB - downloaded 336 times.)

 Page 7 western species germination.pdf (238.15 kB - downloaded 322 times.)

 Pages 8 to 9 western species germination.pdf (171.9 kB - downloaded 338 times.)

 Page 10 western species germination.pdf (132.78 kB - downloaded 336 times.)

 Page 11 western species germination.pdf (268.81 kB - downloaded 311 times.)

[Gene Mirro]

Here is another document that I referred to on my now-defunct website:

 lilies.doc (42.5 kB - downloaded 466 times.)

This is an excerpt from an English gardening book written in 1916 by A. Clutton-Brock.  He has a lot of interesting insights.  Some of the lily species names are no longer valid.

[ebbie]

Lilium bolanderi

Seeds from ALPLAINS. In zip bag in moist perlite.
-3 months at about 20 ° C
-3 months in the refrigerator at about 10 ° C.

[vanozzi]

Two pots containing seedlings of L.majoense and L. poilanei continued to grow throughout winter.I found a green aphid on the majoense this morning--certainly got me moving, burnt my porridge too.

Regards
Paul R

[Argentea]

Thanks , everybody for your input on Lilium seed germination.    In general, I have pretty good success with germinations.   However, in my experience, many times I receive seed in Feb/ March. In delayed hypogeal   techniques, I do give a 3-4 week warm period, but unfortunately, becomes difficult for me in my climate to follow up with a cold period, as our weather has warmed up to the point they don't receive a proper chill.  I've had minimal success with refrigeration for the cool period.  It just seems the fluctuating cool/ cold temps of winter have a better effect than constant refrigerator cooling.    And, of course, we now have the additional equation of liquid smoke in germination aid.    Any thoughts out there? Gene, I'm in your state. 
Also, I'm treading new territory by sowing several Chinese species, some of which I can find no info.
Rick Kyper

[Gene Mirro]

Rick K, I just discovered your post.  For delayed hypogeal seeds, it usually takes at least 3-4 months of warm (25C), followed by at least 4 months of cold (5C).  If you tell me what Chinese species you are trying to grow, maybe I can give you some hints.  Most of the Chinese species are immediate epigeal, but the rare ones can be very difficult to grow to maturity.

I do not recommend trying to germinate lily seeds out of their natural season.  It is extremely difficult to get them synchronized with the weather outdoors, and you will end up losing a lot of them.  I start delayed hypogeal in early Summer, and immediate epigeal in late Winter.  I want them to germinate in Spring.  If you get the seeds at the wrong time of year, just store them in the freezer in an airtight container.  Don't forget to label them.  I used to grow some lilies on an inverted schedule (in the Winter under lights) but it is too much trouble.

If you are in the Kalama area, I will be happy to give you a tour.

[johnw]

Gene  - Last year Bjørnar's Lilium souliei seed sprouted immediately at room temp in a plastic bag.  Within a few weeks they promptly collapsed at 5c in the cool fluorescent room. I blamed a spray of bacterial fungicide which coincidentally also knocked out another rare gemlet.

This year no seeds sprouted.

Has anyone had success with this devil of a species?

johnw

[Yann]

John, i sown the ones received from Bojnar in february, they germinated mid-april and they now are 3cm/1.5" .
I put the seeds in a mix of peat, perlite, water retentor and cover them with 1cm of vermiculite.
Last week i spray a bit too much water on the pot but i placed it immediatly in very ventilated area of the greenhouse.

On last inspection all seems to be safe.

I'm no more using bag's method for germinating lilium. It goes well directly in pot, especially for chinese species.
I don't use any fongicid on my seedlings.

The only thing i've remarked : Lilium should have a built-in timing that triggers germination. And it should happens during spring (mid-march to end of april). If the germination doesn't occur during this time lapse result is quite poor.
Temperature's delta during this period can be important, lighting began to change and i guess those paramaters have an effect on germination.

I now sow Lilium for +/- 15 years and the surviving bulbs ,and so seedlings, were those respecting the "spring period".


It's my experiences and i know some persons who're not able to germinate any lilium's seeds in pot (bad substrat is also a reason of failure) but succeed using pure vermiculite in bag.