Lilium species

[Martin Baxendale]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask , but I have some martagon seeds in a baggie with damp vermiculite at room temperature, they've been in the bag since 8th Jan and are getting roots.
Not sure if I have to leave them at warm for another 9 weeks or if I can move them into the fridge for 3 months.
Any advice appreciated.

 

You need to keep them warm until tiny bulbils have formed, then into the fridge for a few weeks cold before potting to induce leaf growth. I have martagon cattaniae seed in bags still in the warm now, put into the moist vermiculite in about November. They've made bulbs and will go in the fridge soon. If yours were sown this month, they'll probably need until maybe end of Feb to make little bulbils before going in the fridge (but keep an neye on them, as they may catch up fast on my earlier sowing).

[maggiepie]

You need to keep them warm until tiny bulbils have formed, then into the fridge for a few weeks cold before potting to induce leaf growth. I have martagon cattaniae seed in bags still in the warm now, put into the moist vermiculite in about November. They've made bulbs and will go in the fridge soon. If yours were sown this month, they'll probably need until maybe end of Feb to make little bulbils before going in the fridge (but keep an neye on them, as they may catch up fast on my earlier sowing).

Thanks Martin, I had it back to front 

[maggiepie]

Hope someone sees this.

Are these bulbils big enough to now go into the fridge?
I don't have a clue.

[Martin Baxendale]

Hope someone sees this.

Are these bulbils big enough to now go into the fridge?
I don't have a clue.

I've checked mine which were sown in late Autumn and the bulbils are only a little bigger than yours, so I'd say you could put them in the fridge now if you want to, or another week just to let them add a little more bulk if they can wouldn't hurt. Either way, they've caught up fast with my autum n sown martagon seed and  are more or less ready for the fridge.

[maggiepie]

I've checked mine which were sown in late Autumn and the bulbils are only a little bigger than yours, so I'd say you could put them in the fridge now if you want to, or another week just to let them add a little more bulk if they can wouldn't hurt. Either way, they've caught up fast with my autum n sown martagon seed and  are more or less ready for the fridge.

Martin, thanks very much for your help, I really appreciate it.
I'll give them another week, that will make a month of warm.

[gote]

I agree with Martin. they still look smallish - I would keep them one or two weeks. However, they would probably survive even now.
I would think that an indication is whether the seed looks exhausted or not.
Göte

[maggiepie]

I agree with Martin. they still look smallish - I would keep them one or two weeks. However, they would probably survive even now.
I would think that an indication is whether the seed looks exhausted or not.
Göte

Göte, not sure what you mean by whether the seed looks exhausted.
How can you tell?

[Martin Baxendale]

Göte, not sure what you mean by whether the seed looks exhausted.
How can you tell?

I think Göte means the seed, instead of being plump and still containing living white seed material, looking thin and papery, nothing but a husk, meaning that all the 'goodness' has gone out of the seed into the developing bulbil and root, with nothing left to give to the bulbil. I think an extra week, or even two as he suggests, would be a good idea before putting the seed in the fridge.

[maggiepie]

Thanks Martin, now I get it.
The seeds still look quite plump.

[gote]

That was exactly what I meant.
Thank you!
Göte

[Kristl Walek]

Cris, L. philadelphicum is very difficult.  Seed germination is unpredictable and irregular, and the plants grow very slowly and have low survival rates.  It is very strange, because in nature they grow in a wide range of conditions. 

Hi Gene,
Just getting around to this thread....My own experience with L. philadelphicum germination is just the opposite of yours. My seed is wild collected in this area of Ontario. Germination is normally immediate and extremely regular and seedlings grow on trouble-free. This pattern has never varied in the 18 years I've collected and tested this species. The trouble with it to my eyes is never in the pot, but in the garden (where they rarely stay for more than 3 years) even if given what appear to be ideal conditions.

I wonder if your experience (being in Oregon) is with the western variety (L. philadelphicum var. andinum) which might very well have a different germination habit. I carried this once, but can't lay my hands on my germination records right now.

[Kristl Walek]

If I am doing pot-sowing of hypogeal lilies (instead of zip lock baggie or some other method), I usually delay my sowing until spring/early summer, when I can use the natural rhythm of the seasons to do the work for me (seed will germinate, produce bulb, etc during the warmth of the spring/summer/fall) when you see absolutely nothing above the soil level; then the pot gets plunged outside for the winter (cold treatment). The following spring the pots are normally overflowing with first leaves.

I first started this routine when producing large amount of canadense, martagons, etc. for nursery sales as I found that losses were much lower using this technique for the hypogeals.

Immediate germinators were always done indoors over winter, because the faster they come along, the better.

[Regelian]

I had recently read an article on raising delayed hypogeal seedlings.  The writer has germinated the seed as usual and then, instead of refrigerating them, he placed them on a layer of sphagnum and gave them light and lots of water.  They grew away through the Summer and were them allowed to go dormant.  Apparently he managed to save an entire season with this method.  I am going to try it with some L. superbum seed that is currently plumping-up, but on perlite, as sphagnum is a protected species in Germany.  You may not collect it.

[gote]

I had recently read an article on raising delayed hypogeal seedlings.  The writer has germinated the seed as usual and then, instead of refrigerating them, he placed them on a layer of sphagnum and gave them light and lots of water.  They grew away through the Summer and were them allowed to go dormant.  Apparently he managed to save an entire season with this method.  I am going to try it with some L. superbum seed that is currently plumping-up, but on perlite, as sphagnum is a protected species in Germany.  You may not collect it.

Some more detail would be interesting. What species and what is "as usual"?
Göte

[Regelian]

Göte,

the seed was germinated warm and moist in a plastic bag, about 8-12 weeks.  He was working with various hybrids, which represented an across the board sample of delayed hypogeal germinators; martagons, orientals, etc.  None were species.

As the bulblets reached a handlable size, they were placed on a mat of sphagnum with water to keep it wet, not just moist, and then exposed to good light.  Apparently, the little bulbs developed chlorophyll and started growing, instead of the expected cold rest.  The first true leaf came along within 5 months.

As I mentioned, I will try with perlite, which he noted was also possible, although a wool-type matting didn't work well.  As sphagnum does have certain antiseptic properties, it would certainly have advantages, if one can procure it.