Autumn Flowering Narcissus 2014

[Maggi Young]

I've just come back from Spain where I found some lovely autumn flowering bulbs, Colchicum, Scilla and Leucojum and also what I really wanted to see,  Narcissus.

Would anyone care to let me know which species this is ?  The stem has up to five flowers and it is fragrant. I think either N. serotinus or N. elegans but neither descriptions  from the Blamey and Grey Wilson 'Mediterranean Wild Flowers' book fit it exactly.

Oh my word- I am faint with excitement at the thought  of multiple flowers on the stem and seeing these beauties in the wild

[Jo]

  ,  it was a lovely sight Maggie, a whole olive grove of them.  It was a neglected grove and the only one in the village that had them.  All the other groves were highly managed and 'weed free' 

From Anthony's info, thanks, and reading old Narcissus threads I agree that this must be N. miniatus.  I am surprised though that there is no mention of this species in 'Wild Flowers of the Mediterranean', Blamey and Grey-Wilson. Has there been a lot of name changing since it was first published in 1988 ?

[Maggi Young]

Jo, sometimes it seems these plants change their names "more often than their socks" !

From the Kew Plant List:

Narcissus miniatus Donn.-Morg., Koop. & Zonn. is a synonym of Narcissus obsoletus (Haw.) Spach

The record derives from WCSP (data supplied on 2012-03-23) which reports it as a synonym (record 347508) with original publication details: Daffodil Snowdrop Tulip Yearb. 2005-2006: 22 2005.

[Anthony Darby]

Mmm. I have a pot of Narcissus obsoletus seedlings that I hope will flower next year. N. malacitanus too.

[Oron Peri]

,  it was a lovely sight Maggie, a whole olive grove of them.  It was a neglected grove and the only one in the village that had them.  All the other groves were highly managed and 'weed free' 

From Anthony's info, thanks, and reading old Narcissus threads I agree that this must be N. miniatus.  I am surprised though that there is no mention of this species in 'Wild Flowers of the Mediterranean', Blamey and Grey-Wilson. Has there been a lot of name changing since it was first published in 1988 ?

Hi JO

Narcissus miniatus is no longer a valid name, it is a synonym of N. obsoletus but!, depends in which part of Spain you have seen these Narcissus as the populations in SW Spain are N. serotinus while going to the east all the way to Israel it is N. obsoletus. It is practically impossible distinguish between the two [accept the angle of the flowers, supposedly close to 90 degree in serotinus, which i do not find as a valid sign..], any way they have been separated for having different chromosome number: N. serotinus 2n=10 while N. obsoletus 2n=30.

[Hans A.]

Some Narcissus in flower:
Narcissus obsoletus, Narcissus broussonetti and Narcissus viridiflorus

[Hans A.]

And some more:
Narcissus elegans, Narcissus elegans IB, Narcissus x alleniae and Narcissus x perezlarae
It is really a pitty I hardly can see them - but I enjoy the fragrance at night.

[Maggi Young]

These beauties are growing as well for you as ever, Hans. It is a pleasure to see them.

[fermi de Sousa]

Oh Hans,
such abundance!
They look wonderful - I can imagine the scent (where is that scent button, Fred? )
cheers
fermi

[Jo]

Hi Oron,  I'm not sure on east and west along that coast of Spain but I was inland of Valencia and a place called Gandia, is that east or west ?  Unfortunately I didn't realise that I could have had a look for N. viridiflorus, I think I was near the right habitat at the right time 

[pehe]

And some more:
Narcissus elegans, Narcissus elegans IB, Narcissus x alleniae and Narcissus x perezlarae
It is really a pitty I hardly can see them - but I enjoy the fragrance at night.

It is great pleasure to see these beauties flower so well. Here in the north we struggle to get just a few flowers.

Poul

[David Nicholson]

Jo, did you manage to get to El Torcal?

[Oron Peri]

Hi Oron,  I'm not sure on east and west along that coast of Spain but I was inland of Valencia and a place called Gandia, is that east or west ?  Unfortunately I didn't realise that I could have had a look for N. viridiflorus, I think I was near the right habitat at the right time 

Jo,

The area you have indicated is within the distribution of N. obsoletus,
you can see the maps of distribution of the different species here:

http://www.anthos.es/index.php?lang=en

[Oron Peri]

And some more:
Narcissus elegans, Narcissus elegans IB, Narcissus x alleniae and Narcissus x perezlarae
It is really a pitty I hardly can see them - but I enjoy the fragrance at night.

Hans,
Fantastic as usual... , thanks for showing

[Anthony Darby]

Is Narcissus obsoletus of hybrid origin?