Avon Resting Bulb List

[Matt Bishop]

Whilst plant names can and do change, usually for reasons of unknown prior publication, I agree with Maggi and I think its completely ridiculous to attempt to alter or change a well established term which allows us to communicate effectively about plants with a common feature. Such a change would only cause confusion and a disservice to any one interested in snowdrops. And you cannot un-invent the use of the epithet poculiformis for Galanthus either.

And for people new to snowdrops, well its like any specialised interest which inevitably comes with unfamiliar terms and just the same as we did, they will take them in their stride, learning them as they go, so where's the problem?

[art600]

Matt

Excellent summary of the current status amongst Galanthophiles.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

[Alan_b]

"Marvellous" is a well-established term for something really good but it is going out of fashion; replaced by "awesome".  Poculiform, when applied to a snowdrop, will always mean one where the inners resemble the outers but if some future generation of galanthophiles decides that they prefer some other term for the same thing then it will pass out of common usage.  Poculiform is a bit of a mouthful and even the pronunciation is uncertain - is the u hard as in peculiar or soft as in cull?  It's also a rather poor description.  I just don't see it lasting; but clearly it has some ardent supporters at present.  Surprising then, that nobody seemed to embrace pterugiform, which has all the merits of poculiform (except that it arrived 2 years after Matt coined the term "inverse poculiform").     

[Matt Bishop]

The End

[Hagen Engelmann]

Can anybody translate the discussion please into German? 
At least the result?

[Alan_b]

The result:

"Poculiform" ja bitte.  Es ist eine guter Name, weil est alt ist.
"Inverse poculiform" ja bitte.
"Pterugiform" nein danke.  Es ist zu spät.

I'm not sure if "inverse", being an English word, should be translated into your language of use but anyway I don't know the German for inverse.  In fact I don't know much German at all. 

[chasw]

Well done Alan 

[Alan_b]

Thank you, Chas.  I studied German for 3 years at school but that was now so long ago it's almost embarrassing.

[Rick Goodenough]

Thank you, Chas.  I studied German for 3 years at school but that was now so long ago it's almost embarrassing.

Alan, I studied German for two years and had to go to Google translate to be sure of what I was reading. Yours is a succinct and tidy summary.

This was an interesting conversation to track from the sidelines, and I am still smiling at Emma's illo/olli.

[Iris Ney]

The result:

"Poculiform" ja bitte.  Es ist eine guter Name, weil est alt ist.
"Inverse poculiform" ja bitte.
"Pterugiform" nein danke.  Es ist zu spät.

I'm not sure if "inverse", being an English word, should be translated into your language of use but anyway I don't know the German for inverse.  In fact I don't know much German at all. 

Very well done nevertheless. Thank you !

Ich würde 'inverse' in diesem Zusammenhang als 'Umgekehrt Poculiform' übersetzen und dann versteht man auch die Diskussion darüber, ob dieser Name sinnvoll ist. Denn da sich das Wort Poculiform aus der stark "bauchigen" Form ableitet, müßte "umgekehrt poculiform" quasi konkav sein. Dies ist ja bei den Trym-artigen nicht unbedingt der Fall...

Iris

[Maggi Young]

Very well done nevertheless. Thank you !

Ich würde 'inverse' in diesem Zusammenhang als 'Umgekehrt Poculiform' übersetzen und dann versteht man auch die Diskussion darüber, ob dieser Name sinnvoll ist. Denn da sich das Wort Poculiform aus der stark "bauchigen" Form ableitet, müßte "umgekehrt poculiform" quasi konkav sein. Dies ist ja bei den Trym-artigen nicht unbedingt der Fall...

Iris

An approximate translation :

I would translate 'inverse' in this context as 'Conversely Poculiform' and then you can understand the discussion on whether this name is appropriate. For since the word Poculiform is  derived from the strong "fat" form,  then "reversed poculiform" would  be apparently concave. This is indeed in the Trym-like instance  not necessarily the case ...

[Alan_b]

Funnily enough, I had a chat with a snowdrop luminary this week who was keen on the term 'pterugiform' so perhaps this debate will continue.  I know that Matt coined "inverse poculiform" first but there is never any guarantee that the terminology of first use will stick.  We don't all drive around in 'horseless carriages' - or rather we do; we just don't call them that any more.

[Brian Ellis]

It did make an appearance here

http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/pbs/2013-February/038632.html

[Alan_b]

Yes, Brian, Maggi provided the original link to the PBS forum in post #27.

Earlier in February 2013 Mark Brown was seeking an alternative to "inverse poculiform" and thought of the "skirt" worn by Roman legionnaires.

Somebody posting as bonsaigai37 @aol.com suggested Pteruges as the name for this apparel.

Mark Smyth pointed out that it wasn't really a skirt.

Rodger Whitlock coined the term "Pterugiform".

Then the bit you linked to follows. 

So Mark Brown is the advocate behind pterugiform.  Mark Brown, for anyone who does not know, is a France-based galanthophile featured in the book "Galanthomania".   

[Brian Ellis]

Yes, Brian, Maggi provided the original link to the PBS forum in post #27.

Whoops I am behind the times!