Narcissus August 2014

[Mini-daffs]

 
Hi Anne
Fermi, like us, has a Mediterranean climate and the bulbocodiums like the heat. We had 13 years of drought and our bulbocodiums performed much better than when we had a lot of rain.
Mondieu grows quite large here. Around 50mm.
One of our specialities is growing giant bulbocodiums that are too big for miniature. In other word they exceed 50 mm in diameter. We have registered two giant bulbocodiums, Clay's Gold and Pilgrim Clay, and we have quite a few in the production line. At the moment we have quite a few very large bulbocodium hybrids flowering that I am using for breeding giant bulbocodiums. I am trying to put Mondieu onto large flowers with taller stems.
Pilgrim Clay is just opening and it is going to be huge this year.

[David Nicholson]

.... One of our specialities is growing giant bulbocodiums that are too big for miniature. In other word they exceed 50 mm in diameter. We have registered two giant bulbocodiums, Clay's Gold and Pilgrim Clay, and we have quite a few in the production line. At the moment we have quite a few very large bulbocodium hybrids flowering that I am using for breeding giant bulbocodiums.........

But what's the point doesn't that produce something that is just totally out of the scale for the species, or is it a "mine's bigger than yours" thing?

[Maggi Young]

Not much! I usually add a few "organic" pellets or a slow release fertilizer when I repot in late summer. The ones in the ground get a water with liquid fertilizer once or twice while in growth.
I'm thinking of using potash powder like Ian Young does, but never remember when it should be put on!
cheers
fermi

Sulphate of Potash powder is applied when they're in flower,  fermi.

[Maggi Young]

But what's the point doesn't that produce something that is just totally out of the scale for the species, or is it a "mine's bigger than yours" thing?

I bear in mind that Graham's main purpose is to grow daffodils for exhibition - not "our" type of show where plants are exhibited in pots - that is to say for showing in the way of daffodil shows - where blooms are cut and displayed in a vase. This gives a completely different ethos to the process and different attributes are desirable in the blooms.
For alpine gardeners the overall scale of the plant is important to give a neat miniature plant but for showing blooms only the features sought are quite other.

[fermi de Sousa]

Sulphate of Potash powder is applied when they're in flower,  fermi.

Thanks, Maggi,
I'm afraid "old-timers" disease is setting in my memory is just not what it used to be. Must remember that it's Sulphate of Potash!
David,
Graham's breeding focuses on both the small end and large end - he had one of the most amazing little daffs at last year's Canberra Hort. Soc Spring Show!
cheers
fermi

[Mini-daffs]

David
There are quite a few bulbocodium species that are naturally very large. There is a very large bulbocodium species from France that is very tall and very large. It grows in very wet conditions. I got some seed at some time but I am not sure if it has germinated for me or not.
Anne is also selling seed of a tetraploid bulbocodium that is quite large - Narcissus akersianum.
N. obesus is also a very large flower.
If you have a large population N. bulbocodium conspicuus you are likely to find both big and small.
We grow quite a few forms of N. tenuifolius. There are many truly tiny forms but some are not so tiny.
As a hybridiser our aim is for a large flower on a tall stem similar to the species from France. Nobody wants a tall weak stem with a large flower that flops over in the wind.
We also breed tiny bulbocodiums using our N. tenuifolius. There may be a bit of my flower is bigger than your and there is also a bit of my flower is smaller than yours.
Failure as a miniature breeder is when the flower is truly small but so is the stem so the flower opens at ground level.
We also breed miniature bulbocodiums that are neither large nor overly small. We like to breed different forms that are attractive and in various colours.
Anne, I have attached some photos of some of our giants. What is truly annoying is when the ferals (from dropped seed) is better than what is in our seedling boxes.
As you can see we "throw" our surplus bulbs into our house garden. Daffodils of different kinds are coming up in our house garden including quite a few bulbocodiums.

[Mini-daffs]

 
Hi
Fermi is correct. We are primarily miniature breeders and he has had the advantage of both seeing and growing our seedlings.
If you look at Anne's miniature seedlings you will see a lot of K's. That K is for Keira Bulbs which is my wife and I. We are one of the largest breeders of miniature daffodils in the world. We have bred miniatures in every daffodil division.
However, we do a nice line in giant bulbocodiums that are very sought after for exhibition.

[Mini-daffs]

 
Hi
Size is an interesting thing and in that context the species daffodils are quite diverse.
We seek out small versions of the species for our miniature hybridising. We have some very miniature species that we use in our hybridising programs.
In the US there are quite a few miniature poeticus being exhibited. We have some that are borderline miniature that we have grown from seed sent to us from the US. They are exceptional flowers.
We also have a dwarf for of N. nobilis ssp primagenus. It allows us to breed very late flowering miniature trumpets.
We also have an extremely miniature form of N. assoanus. It is particularly useful for breeding.
If you looked carefully at the photos we have posted of N. triandus you would have seen miniature, intermediate and giant forms of N. triandus.
Our form of N. cyclamineus is not miniature at all. To get very miniature cyclamineus hybrids we use dwarfing species such as N. asturiensis. We have a rare form of N. asturiensis that allows us to breed superior miniature hybrids.
We can breed some things that others can't because we have some fertile hybrids that are not available on the market. This is particularly true of our Division 7 hybridising.

[annew]

It takes all sorts, David. The aim of a professional breeder is to please as many people as he can, which means lots of different types/sizes so there is something for all tastes. Flowers for exhibition in daffodil shows are a special case. A flower is classed as miniature purely on the size of the flower, even if it were on a stalk 1m high!

[Mini-daffs]

 
Hi
Anne, it does take all sorts. In our climate we can grow our daffodils outside in conditions similar to those in Spain and they grow like weeds in some cases. We don't have to grow things in glass houses unless we want to grow the autumn flowering daffodils or some kinds of tazetta that prefer warmer climates. What we do have is a shade house for those daffodils that like it damp all year like N. cyclamineus.
In relation to short and tall miniatures I have posted some photos. The smaller flower is the taller. We don't like our miniatures to have stems taller than 10cm. We have the hybridising skills to ensure that is the case.
In Scotland miniatures have long stems compared to ours because of the Scottish growing conditions. Maggie can add the scientific name for this.

[Maggi Young]

Hi

In Scotland miniatures have long stems compared to ours because of the Scottish growing conditions. Maggie can add the scientific name for this.

 

My pleasure - it is "the ruddy weather"   

[fermi de Sousa]

 

My pleasure - it is "the ruddy weather"   

dreich?

[Maggi Young]

dreich?

More often than not ! Well, that's often how we feel -though this is our third sunny day in a row 

Wonderful though the light is for artists here in the North East, the light levels for plant growth, especially under glass, where we must keep so many plants to be able to maintain them from frost, wet or just to be able to enjoy their flowers in some comfort for us, are not great and so we have to suffer a lot of etiolated stems ....

[Matt T]

And etiolated gardeners too!! 

[Mini-daffs]

Hi
The significance of etiolation is that the best miniature daffodils for Scotland that are bred in Australia is a smallish flower on a short stout stem. A tall stem with a big flower would not do well in your conditions nor would a large flower on a short weakish stem. I don't think our tall large bulbocodiums would look good if they had a lot taller stem.