Pronunciation dilemmas for Galanthophiles ('Poculiform' etc.)

[Alan_b]

Likewise, but how does she say 'poculiform'?  I see a distinction between the way one would pronounce a familiar term like tomato, which is down to accent, and the way one would tackle an unfamiliar term that you have read and never heard spoken.  Reading this thread has convinced me that whoever coins a new term ought to give guidance on how they would like it to be pronounced.

For example, a controversial new word in the snowdrop world is 'pterugiform' which was coined at the instigation of Mark Brown.  In piece of online correspondence he writes

I am sure that some will prefer to go the road of pocs instead of poculiforms and thus terries instead of pterugiforms...

which helps quite a bit (confirming that the p is silent) but is the 'u' long as in 'pure' or 'short' as in 'rug'?  If anybody here knows Mark they should ask him.       

[Lesley Cox]

And what about Schizostylis? As in Schizocodon presumably? But then why Skit so phrenia instead of Schi zo phrenia?

[art600]

But then why Skit so phrenia instead of Schi zo phrenia?

The jury is split on that 

[Alan_b]

Skit so phrenia instead of Schi zo phrenia?

Apparently the term by coined by the Swiss psychiatrist Eugen Blauer in a lecture he gave in Berlin (so presumably in German).  Seemingly it took a long time for the term to be adopted into English by which time it had presumably acquired a pronunciation more consistent with German.

[Gerry Webster]

..... This is what I suspected and I agree with phyllum being pronounced fill-um ......

For my sins I spent nearly 50 years in the company of professional biologists (in the UK) & never once heard 'phyllum' (actually  phylum) pronounced fill-um.

[johnralphcarpenter]

Likewise, but how does she say 'poculiform'?  I see a distinction between the way one would pronounce a familiar term like tomato, which is down to accent, and the way one would tackle an unfamiliar term that you have read and never heard spoken.  Reading this thread has convinced me that whoever coins a new term ought to give guidance on how they would like it to be pronounced.

For example, a controversial new word in the snowdrop world is 'pterugiform' which was coined at the instigation of Mark Brown.  In piece of online correspondence he writes

which helps quite a bit (confirming that the p is silent) but is the 'u' long as in 'pure' or 'short' as in 'rug'?  If anybody here knows Mark they should ask him.     

She pronounces it "poc-coo-li-form". I would say "poc-queue-li-form".

[Alan_b]

For my sins I spent nearly 50 years in the company of professional biologists (in the UK) & never once heard 'phyllum' (actually  phylum) pronounced fill-um.

But that's the whole point.  A word that you have heard for 50 years is pronounced the way you have heard it pronounced for 50 years, irrespective of whatever the 'correct ' pronunciation should have been.  It's the new and rarely-spoken words that present the problems.

My original question is about a word that, as I learned yesterday, has been used as a descriptive term for a type of snowdrop since 1880.  It features in talks from time-to-time and so there might well now be a pronunciation established by tradition, even if that tradition is a weak and thin one.  But, surprisingly, nobody has come forward with the answer: "Well I've always said ..."     

[johnralphcarpenter]

I have always pronounced Lavandula as "La -VAN-dew-la", but when I was studying at Hadlow College on of the lecturers always pronounced it as "La-van-DEW-la". Does it really matter?

[Alan_b]

... Does it really matter?

Tomayto tomahto, eh?

[Gerry Webster]

It's the new and rarely-spoken words that present the problems.

If they are "rarely spoken" then not much of a problem for most people.

[Alan_b]

I concede there is a 'fuss-over-nothing' point of view but if I had to stand up to give a talk, I would not want to stumble over how to pronounce an unfamiliar word and put myself off.  Emma's tutor was undoubtedly correct that the best thing to do is to speak confidently and not worry but that's easier said than done.  And anyway I'm just plain curious to know if there is an accepted 'right' answer. 

I found an old article here http://www.gutenberg.org/files/15364/15364-h/15364-h.htm addressing the issue of "THE PRONUNCIATION OF ENGLISH WORDS DERIVED FROM THE LATIN" but this just served to indicate than any rules there might be are frequently broken.

[Brian Ellis]

If you were to give a talk then surely you would explain what the term meant and nobody would then be confused - pronunciation is not an issue.  If you are really worried ring Joe

[Anthony Darby]

Come to New Zealand. We have to pronounce Maori words exactly right or .... but English is massacred! Add words from other languages and you have no chance. Foy-er; two door cars suddenly become hen houses (i.e. coupé becomes coup); we have chilli con carn; my dog is a whymarayner; my son's friend is fed up having his country called an apple product - i-Raq pronounced eyerack, and where the heck is LOS Vegas!? I cringe when a new player come on to a sports field for his "day-boo" or worse, "d'boo".

[Alan_b]

If you are really worried ring Joe

I'm not amongst the select few who actually know Joe Sharman's telephone number.  When he called me a few weeks ago his number was withheld - which meant he was quite lucky that I picked-up the phone at all.

I'm pretty sure that Joe says poc-yule-iform (i.e. with the 'u' sound long and stressed).  I'm also pretty sure that 'pocul' should be pronounced with a short u and the stress on 'poc' if you are attempting to say it as scholars think the Romans did.  And since starting this thread I have come to realise that if a majority of people use a particular pronunciation then that is de facto correct.  Heaven knows, we may one day all be pronouncing 'nuclear' as 'new-killer' - as a significant minority already do. 

[Maggi Young]

I'm not amongst the select few who actually know Joe Sharman's telephone number.  When he called me a few weeks ago his number was withheld - which meant he was quite lucky that I picked-up the phone at all.

   

 " Telephone 01954 251555 (answerphone)
Email info@monksilvernursery.co.uk  Please include a contact telephone number "


(Can be a risky business to ignore all "withheld " numbers - for instance, I know when a Doctors' surgery phones the number is with held. !)