Pronunciation dilemmas for Galanthophiles ('Poculiform' etc.)

[Alan_b]

Is there a Latin scholar in the house?

'Poculiform' often seems to be pronounced with a long 'u' as in 'cute' or 'peculiar'.  If that is right then I am very tempted to coin an adjective for a snowdrop that is poculiform in appearance so I can say: 'That's a poculiar-looking snowdrop'.  But I have a feeling that correct pronunciation should be with a short 'u' and in 'cull' or 'Culpeper'.

Can anyone set me straight and tell me which is correct?   

[Maggi Young]

Forgive my air of frivolity, Alan, but unless there is a Roman senator lurking in the forum, who knows - and even, does it matter ??

[alanelliott]

called it cup-shaped and avoid the dead language

[alanelliott]

Ok it has been discussed in the office in the past 30second. One of my colleagues pronounces a species he works with as Begonia po-queue-lifera he seems adamant.

[Maggi Young]

Alan B's question has a  tone of humour in that he would be able to better make a joke with the term, which is innocent enough  - but I feel strongly about these matters and feel I must explain my own attitude:

"Correct" pronounciation of latin - or perhaps  more likely " latinised"  - names and terms is something I have found myself discussing on many occasions.  It usually turns out that one person thinks they have the "correct" version and is keen to impose that  form on everyone else.  Apart from being unhelpful to those struggling with such unfamiliar terms it seems to me that it is a bit odd to try to categorise  something that at best is an unknown and oftentimes is a complete fabrication and would never have been "spoken" in the first place. 
There is such diversity of pronounciation of such things  between native English speakers ( and  it tends to be those who get most "hung -up " on "correctness" ) that it is clear that when the question of how those people speaking other languages might say these words is fed into the mix there is effectively no way of standardising the pronounciation, let alone standardising to a given "correctness".

At least when such terms are written they can be read by us all to let us know what is meant.

I spend so much time working to enable people from anywhere in the world to come together and share their plant experiences and form lasting connections and friendships that this type  of question is something that means a lot  to me, since I worry that it is something that makes divisions and causes worry to people.

[Neil]

Alan try google

https://translate.google.com/#la/en/Poculiform

And hit the speaker button

 

[Tony Willis]

Maggi

it reminds me of a one day conference where there were three talks that involved Turkish plants. All three speakers naturally thought they spoke fluent Turkish and pronounced the place names quite differently. Perhaps a Birmingham accent does not fit easily with the Turkish language.

When we first started visiting East Germany we soon discovered we had never heard of many of the plants until we actually saw the written labels. Off course they pronounce them correctly.

Best thing I find is to do your own thing!

[Maggi Young]

Best thing I find is to do your own thing!

Exactly! - and carry a pad and pencil to be able to write it down if need be!! 

[Alan_b]

I'll confess the origin of my query:

Some years ago when I was a naive 'young' galanthophile, I went to a talk where the speaker mentioned 'poculiform'.  This terminology accompanied a slide of what then struck me as a very peculiar-looking snowdrop.  I had not heard the term before and it was either not explained or the explanation went over my head.  Since the speaker at that time pronounced it with a long 'u' (poc-you-liform) and with the emphasis on the 'u', what I heard was 'peculiform' and since that time I have never been able to shake-off a mental association between 'poculiform' and 'peculiar' - because my initial assumption was that the two words derived from the same root.  So when I was first struggling with this unfamiliar term I wish it had been pronounced with a short 'u' rather than a long one and with the emphasis on the 'o' - just as the nice lady on Google Translate pronounces it (thanks Neil).

 

 

[Maggi Young]

Great story, Alan - and it has certainly helped you remember the term, hasn't it! 

[emma T]

My college lecturer  said as long as you can spell it , just say it with confidence and it doesn't really matter if you get it a bit wrong as it's a dead language .

[brianw]

My pronunciation is strongly influenced by working for some months in Spain back in the 1980's. My English speaking local friend spoke very good English, (taught him by someone from Northern Ireland) and he used to say to me pronounce all the vowels with equal length. Stress none when you don't know. He complained of me saying Bizet (Carmen) with a long e. He said it with a short e like Bizette.

[Alan_b]

... there is effectively no way of standardising the pronounciation, let alone standardising to a given "correctness".

The UK packs a lot of different regional accents into a small area and I would hate to see these lost.  My aunt, who spent more time in Lancashire than her younger siblings, would always pronounce 'book', 'cook', 'look, etc as if they were a perfect rhyme with 'spook'.  The family moved to Nottingham and as a child growing up there this struck me as very curious.  But it's really much more sensible than modern 'received pronunciation' that pronounces 'too' differently to 'took'.

I'm not suggesting we should be in the least intolerant of different pronunciations but that does not mean that guidance on how to pronounce unfamiliar words is not helpful.  Whatever the accent of the individual, when a word is unfamiliar it is helpful to know what to aim for, specifically which vowels are long and which vowels are short and where the emphasis should be placed.  Latin is a dead language that few still understand but botanists and others still like to use it to fashion new descriptive terms.  If this practice is to continue, maybe it should become incumbent on whoever coins the new term to also specify the desired pronunciation?         

[Jupiter]

I was taught to always pronounce botanical latin with short vowel sounds. I'd say; Po (as in pot) cul (as in cult) i (as in ink) form.

Here's one I wouldn't mind help with.  Leucoxylon  Discuss...

[Gerry Webster]

There is such diversity of pronounciation of such things  between native English speakers ( and  it tends to be those who get most "hung -up " on "correctness" ) that it is clear that when the question of how those people speaking other languages might say these words is fed into the mix there is effectively no way of standardising the pronounciation, let alone standardising to a given "correctness".

I agree. Listen to recordings of settings of the Latin Mass ( or other Latin texts) made in different parts of Europe. There is no consistency in pronunciation.