Dionysia

[Jupiter]

I stumbled across this Primulaceae genus through a link to Iranian flora I saw on the NARGS forum. It looks very interesting and might just be a good alternative to Androsace in hot dry climates like ours... I was shocked to see no results to my search for it on this forum. Am I missing it somehow? I'm very keen to talk to people with experience, direct or anecdotal regarding Dionysia species.

http://www.dionysia4u.com/Pages/Guest%20Photographers%20Photo%20Album.htm

[Maggi Young]

You may well ask, Jamus..... it has been asked before about the comparative  lack of Dionysia info in the forum..... and the cynical person might think it was because those growing these plants - mostly for the show benches - are reluctant to share their "secrets" !   Perish the thought!

You will see plenty of photos in the Show  threads - they are a very popular plant for many  of the keen exhibitors. They are plants which, apart from a few, are rather tricky in cultivation.  The species are quite beautiful and there has been quite a lot of breeding with them - leading to a good number of hybrids, some of which seem to be a bit more amenable to cultivation. (Some though, have some very suspect colours, to my mind - I prefer the species for the most part.)
However, a search of the forum ( from the Search button fourth from the left in the menu of options near the top of the page - that is to say NOT the big search button near the upper  right hand side of the page) will give you quite a list of results and you will find some good info there.....220 results in fact!

[Jupiter]

Thank you Maggi, using my iPad this morning and missed the other search feature. Very interesting plants indeed, I hope the mountains in Iran are not too high and their conditions more compatible with Mediterranean climate... Fat chance of that I suppose, the form of the plant clearly suggests adaptation to high alpine conditions. In any case, I'm not going to rest until I have some growing.

[Steve Garvie]

I think you might have more success growing them than we do in lowland Scotland. In the wild they are chasmophytes which often grow under somewhat shaded rocky overhangs (though there is a lot of reflected light) in summer-dry mountains of Iran, Afghanistan and adjacent areas.

Superb drainage, low atmospheric humidity, good air movement, careful watering and summer shading should lead to success -at least with the easier species.
Your biggest difficulty will be getting hold of plants or seed in the first place.

[Otto Fauser]

Jamus  , I just came across you lamenting that Dionysias are not grown and not available in Australia . I seem to be the only one here to grow the easiest of the genus : 
 : D. aretioides from the Elburs Mts of North Iran which is not a desert  area . I have grown this species for about 40 years , and renew it  from cuttings (rather easy ) as it does not set seed for me -one needs drum and pin flowers . I grow some in pots in the glass house and some in the crevice garden where they stay more in character (Tight cushions )I have grown other species , but they have all gone to greener pastures .  Re cultivation : follow Steve Garvie's advice ,but fairly dry in winter and normal watering in spring/summer .I will send you a small plant in autumn , if you remind me .

      Hope you survive tomorrows high temperatures , the same forcast for Melbourne .

[Jupiter]

Thanks Otto, Good luck to you and your garden tomorrow... I may well remind you about the Dionysia, it'd be great to grow aretioides for a start. I have plans to build a new rock garden area in the autumn to accommodate the seedlings I perhaps optimistically envisage growing over winter, from SeedEx seed and seed ordered and waiting for sowing. I think it's a perfect spot and I can't wait to get into the new project, but there really is no point until the cooler weather comes in autumn.

[Tim Ingram]

Jamus - the German seed company Jelitto list Dionysia involucrata (and alba) and D. teucrioides (quite expensive but their seed is very good quality). I don't suppose dionysias are likely to invade the Aussie flora so importing seed would probably not be a problem? It might also be worth contacting Gothenberg Botanic Garden (Henrik Zetterlund) because they have had a long botanical interest in the genus (and the Iranian flora) and seem to be able to grow them like cabbages  and they do distribute seed from the garden, though I'm not sure about dionysias. Dionysia aretioides comes well from seed and varies quite a bit which would allow for more selection to your conditions and the possibility of keeping pin and thrum plants to get more seed set. In the UK Tim Lever at Aberconwy propagates many species and hybrids but I think mostly from cuttings - I'm sure he could give valuable advice.

These are a couple of photos planted out in Adrian Cooper's alpine house near to us at Maidstone to give an idea of growing conditions. (He grows choice irises and corydalis and a good bit more in the more exposed upper parts of the rockwork and the dionysias in north-facing crevices lower down).

[Maggi Young]

Thanks for showing those pictures of Adrian Cooper's  plants, Tim . How happy they look growing in that situation - and the whole construction  seems  an attractive thing in itself. Lovely!

[Otto Fauser]

Tim , I looked through my copies of Gothenburg's Index Seminum for the last 5 years : no Dionysia species listed .

   If you want to see a marvellous collection of Dyonisias  (species and hybrids ) grown to perfection in an almost vertical Tufa Wall visit Michael Kammerlander in Wuerzburg . He also has a great collection of rare and difficult Juno and Oncocyclus Iris .

[fermi de Sousa]

Here's a pic I took of Otto's Dionysia back in September when the Pixie was visiting
cheers
fermi

[Tim Ingram]

Yes I've read about Michael Kammerlander's collection in the AGS Bulletin and seen pictures and heard him speak about it - really quite incredible. They are such specialised plants though and for a nurseryman very few people are interested in growing them outside those who exhibit at the Alpine Shows. (Actually one of the best growers, Nigel Fuller, lives in Kent. Adrian grows them in a landscaped alpine house with many other plants which is especially appealing). I find the diversity of plants too compelling to specialise so much and really like seeing plants growing in a garden setting and learning from their natural ecology, and we have a large garden which we have always opened for charity and which alpines are only part of. If I had a tufa cliff though I think there is a good chance dionysias and jankaea and quite a few other thing would find their way into it

[Gene Mirro]

http://www.gotbot.se/sv/kulturplattformen/Goteborgs-Botaniska-Tradgard/Startsida-Goteborgs-Botaniska-tradgard/Forskning-/Samlingar/Dionysia/

http://www.gotbot.se/sv/kulturplattformen/Goteborgs-Botaniska-Tradgard/Startsida-Goteborgs-Botaniska-tradgard/Forskning-/Samlingar/Dionysia/Hogerkolumn-Dionysia/Rad-1/Bilder-Dionysia/

Dionysia viewing day:  http://www.gotbot.se/sv/kulturplattformen/Goteborgs-Botaniska-Tradgard/Startsida-Goteborgs-Botaniska-tradgard/Besok-oss1/Program/I-Dionysians-hemliga-rum-25-jan--8-feb-1300/

[penstemon]

Without bemoaning the utter lack of availability of seeds of plants which would quite clearly do extremely well in the open garden here, with no interference from me, I have a question.
In the old AGS Guide, Dionysias by Grey-Wilson, there is a picture on page 59 of Dionysia lindbergii growing upside down on the roof of a cave.
How do the plants manage this? How do seeds lodge on the roof of a cave? There seems to be only one cushion on the floor of the cave, where the law of gravity would suggest there be more.

[Maggi Young]

The question of how the seed take root on the roof of a cave is indeed a tricky one . I have a suspicion that the lack of plants on the ground could be down to one thing - collectors ! 

[Dionysia]

The picture of D. lindbergii was taken in the Darrah Zang Gorge in 1971 during the Grey-Wilson/Hewer expedition. As this is the only expedition ever to have visited the area I think it highly unlikely that the absence of plants on the floor is due to collectors. Much more likely to be due to goats if indeed many seedlings ever grew on the floor as this would be drier than the ceiling. As to plants growing on the ceiling this would be because the seed either blew there on an updraft or was carried by an insect. A seed would need only the tiniest crack to germinate and would receive water from downward percolation.
Paul