trillium Seed stored

[melager]

not sure what section this should be in, and this may or may not get lots of talking going on.
Trillium seed and how it is stored by doners and when it is received by the lovely seed people. having just read seed germination theory and practice by Norman Deno, and always knowing that trillium should be sown fresh, In his book he was saying that once the seed has been stored dry it is virtually dead, and that the seed should be stored moist (ie in vermiculite).
Could people who are going to donate trillium seed store it moist until it is sent to the seed people and when it is posted to the lucky people who get it, can it be sent moist so that there is a better chance of it germinating? other wise is there any point if once it is two dry it is dead?

[Leena]

I have had Trilliums germinate also from the seed exchange dry seeds, it takes two years before anything comes up.
I am sure fresh seeds germinate better but they are so difficult to come by, so I have been very happy with the seed exchange seeds.

[Karaba]

Talking about theory, Trillium seed take a least 2 years to germinate : first winter to break root dormancy, second winter to break stem dormancy. So, Leena, it seems that you had normal delay even with dry seeds 
About recalcitrant and semi-recalcitrant seeds, I found this pdf but it seems also quite pessimist (? don't have a better term....) for some species.

[GordonT]

I have had some success sowing dry trillium seeds received from both the North American, and Scottish Rock Garden club seed exchanges. I soaked the seed for a day or two to rehydrate it before planting. As mentioned by Leena and Karaba, the above ground germination is definitely delayed. On the other hand, some moist packed seeds that came in the exchanges were dead on arrival (Jeffersonia dubia: I think the moist packing was too damp, and seeds rotted en route).

[Herman Mylemans]

Concerning dry Trillium seeds I have found following article "Germination of Dry Trillium Seed, by John Gyer"  https://www.nargs.org/sites/default/files/free-rgq-downloads/VOL_57_NO_1.pdf

[Gene Mirro]

I find that dry Trillium seed will usually germinate if sown in the same year that it was collected.  However, if you sow it later than November, it will take an extra year to germinate.  I think this is because they require a warm period followed by a long cold period.  If you sow in November-December-January, they don't get the initial warm period.  Some lily seeds do the same thing.

Some Trillium species from the US east coast won't germinate for me no matter what I do.  So there are a lot of variables.

[melager]

I have had Trilliums germinate also from the seed exchange dry seeds, it takes two years before anything comes up.
I am sure fresh seeds germinate better but they are so difficult to come by, so I have been very happy with the seed exchange seeds.

that is great to here that you had germination, so maybe his theory that if they dry out the are basically dead

[melager]

I have had some success sowing dry trillium seeds received from both the North American, and Scottish Rock Garden club seed exchanges. I soaked the seed for a day or two to rehydrate it before planting. As mentioned by Leena and Karaba, the above ground germination is definitely delayed. On the other hand, some moist packed seeds that came in the exchanges were dead on arrival (Jeffersonia dubia: I think the moist packing was too damp, and seeds rotted en route).

Yes I always soak my seed for 48 hours with a drop of detergent, but that gives me hope that getting Trillium seed from the societies is not a waste of time,

[melager]

I find that dry Trillium seed will usually germinate if sown in the same year that it was collected.  However, if you sow it later than November, it will take an extra year to germinate.  I think this is because they require a warm period followed by a long cold period.  If you sow in November-December-January, they don't get the initial warm period.  Some lily seeds do the same thing.

Some Trillium species from the US east coast won't germinate for me no matter what I do.  So there are a lot of variables.

thanks Gene

[melager]

Concerning dry Trillium seeds I have found following article "Germination of Dry Trillium Seed, by John Gyer"  https://www.nargs.org/sites/default/files/free-rgq-downloads/VOL_57_NO_1.pdf

that was great reading and I can see I must join the american society, I have been thinking about it, but must do it.

[Leena]

I also soak the dry seeds before sowing. The species which have germinated best from seed exchange seeds were T.chloropetalum, T.kurabayashii. T.angustipetalum and T.sessile. I'm hoping to see new species germinate this spring from old sowings.

Concerning dry Trillium seeds I have found following article "Germination of Dry Trillium Seed, by John Gyer"  https://www.nargs.org/sites/default/files/free-rgq-downloads/VOL_57_NO_1.pdf

Thank you for this link.

[Garden Prince]

I've read that article about germinating dry Trillium seed by John Gyer a couple of weeks ago (link to the article was posted on the forum of the Vlaamse Rotsplanten Vereniging).

Somehow I'm still skeptical. My experiences with 'dry' Trillium seed are not very good. Never had decent germination from seeds from the Trillium List and other seed lists. Might have something to do with how dry the seed really is. Maybe if the moisture content of Trillium seed goes below a certain percentage the embryo dies?

John Gyer wrote in his article about dry Trillium seed that you should not soak the seeds but slowly hydrate the seeds:

"Rehydration must also be done slowly at moderate temperature so that the cellwalls and membranes have a chance to reconstruct .
Cellwalls in particular will fold and crinkle as the seed dries. The very rapid expansion that happens during soaking in water will cause
cracks along the foldlines, and cell contents will leak out. Bacteria and fungus have a feast on the leakage, where they gain strength
to attack and rot the seed. Slow hydration under essentially 100% humidity, but without free water touching the seed, reduces leakage."

Mr. Gyer therefore hydrated the Trillium seeds with "moist paper towels in plastic bag at room temperature".

[melager]

I've read that article about germinating dry Trillium seed by John Gyer a couple of weeks ago (link to the article was posted on the forum of the Vlaamse Rotsplanten Vereniging).

Somehow I'm still skeptical. My experiences with 'dry' Trillium seed are not very good. Never had decent germination from seeds from the Trillium List and other seed lists. Might have something to do with how dry the seed really is. Maybe if the moisture content of Trillium seed goes below a certain percentage the embryo dies?

John Gyer wrote in his article about dry Trillium seed that you should not soak the seeds but slowly hydrate the seeds:

"Rehydration must also be done slowly at moderate temperature so that the cellwalls and membranes have a chance to reconstruct .
Cellwalls in particular will fold and crinkle as the seed dries. The very rapid expansion that happens during soaking in water will cause
cracks along the foldlines, and cell contents will leak out. Bacteria and fungus have a feast on the leakage, where they gain strength
to attack and rot the seed. Slow hydration under essentially 100% humidity, but without free water touching the seed, reduces leakage."

Mr. Gyer therefore hydrated the Trillium seeds with "moist paper towels in plastic bag at room temperature".

thank you for that, and that makes a lot of sense.so I will try that

Mel