Pleione 2015

[SteveC2]

If the biggest bulb was only a cm then I do not think that you have any cause for concern, they will not make huge leaves this year.  I only know a few cultivars which would even think about flowering on anything that small.

I think that your compost might become a little high maintainance if the summer is hot, and I doubt that anyone could be more heavy handed than me at watering time.
After discussions with my Pleione "Guru" I am becoming more and more sold on neat sphagnum moss.  We both found that the so called hard species like forrestii and aurita liked it, so tried the easy ones in it  and found it worked.

A final word of advice, unless it is all about the challenge for you, I would think about buying flowering size bulbs.  I think they are easier to grow, and if you get a good doer they will bulk up very quickly so that you will get a good potful of flowering plants just as quickly as you would by buying small bulbs, without waiting a few years for the first flower.  I would only buy bulbils / small bulbs of a clone which was either not available as full size or was very very expensive.

[Steve Garvie]

I know nothing of orchid taxonomy and the sum total of my Pleione knowledge could be transcribed onto a pleione pollinium with room to spare, but Pleione x barbarae troubles me greatly.
 
Conventional wisdom states that it is a natural hybrid between Pl. grandiflora and bulbocodioides and that the highly variable appearance is due to many different clones in cultivation derived from presumed hybrid swarms.
I grow a number of "x barbarae" bought from various sources but the original provenance of these plants is not known to me. Below are four examples showing the considerable variation.
 
The first two came via Germany from a Chinese nursery and were sold as "Pleione tibeticum" -I suspect they were wild-collected (but could be man-made hybrids for all I know).
The third came from Maren Talbot and looking at it I can easily convince myself that its parents were Pl. grandiflora and Pl. bulbocodioides.
The fourth plant has been named "x barbarae Clown" -I bought it from David Llewelyn.   









Is Pleione x barbarae a discrete entity or is it a taxonomic basket containing a number of "natural hybrids" and possibly even new species?

Or should I get a life? 

[Graham Catlow]

Hi Steve,
Like you I have no real knowledge on Pleione taxonomy.
I purchased a group of x barbarae from Minor Garden and another group from David Llewelyn and currently have selected seven variations. There are more in the group pots but I haven't had time to separate them out this year. They seem infinitely variable.

And of course confused by 'Pink' P. grandiflora.

[hud357]

If the biggest bulb was only a cm then I do not think that you have any cause for concern, they will not make huge leaves this year.  I only know a few cultivars which would even think about flowering on anything that small.

I think that your compost might become a little high maintainance if the summer is hot, and I doubt that anyone could be more heavy handed than me at watering time.
After discussions with my Pleione "Guru" I am becoming more and more sold on neat sphagnum moss.  We both found that the so called hard species like forrestii and aurita liked it, so tried the easy ones in it  and found it worked.

A final word of advice, unless it is all about the challenge for you, I would think about buying flowering size bulbs.  I think they are easier to grow, and if you get a good doer they will bulk up very quickly so that you will get a good potful of flowering plants just as quickly as you would by buying small bulbs, without waiting a few years for the first flower.  I would only buy bulbils / small bulbs of a clone which was either not available as full size or was very very expensive.

OK, they have now been transplanted into live sphag. They only had a cm of root at best so it was easy to move them without damage.  I can't speak for the plants but I feel better already.

It wasn't about the challenge, more about not buying an expensive plant only to kill it through inexperience. Looking back I probably should have gone for a mature plant. If they survive the season then I will go for something bigger.

[SteveC2]

Good to see that I am not the only one amassing a very variable collection of supposedly Pleione x barbarae. 

I am tending towards the Heinz 57 theory myself, not denying that there is a natural hybrid which can be so called, just assuming that what is for sale under that name might not all be correctly labelled.  In some clones there seems to be definite hints of yunnanensis and I have one which would pass muster in amidst a set of formosana clones.

But assuming that x barbarae is a hybrid between grandiflora and bulbocodioides there will inevitably be a lot of variation as both species are variable in themselves, and I notice that Paul Cumbleton on his excellent website says that the geneticists think it is a cross between grandiflora and bulbocodioides (or some similar species).  Paul's words not mine.  Cue more variability.

I also assume that all the different clones now appearing on the market are in fact man made remakes, and not wild collected, and given the confusion that exists over what is a grandiflora who is to say that the parents used in the cross were pure breds?

What is not in question is that there are some very vigorous and striking plants available.  I particularly like the last two that Steve posted.

Graham, I always thought the Pink grandiflora was barbarae.

Never have I used the word assume so often.  The scientist in me hates it.

[SteveC2]

OK, they have now been transplanted into live sphag. They only had a cm of root at best so it was easy to move them without damage.  I can't speak for the plants but I feel better already.

It wasn't about the challenge, more about not buying an expensive plant only to kill it through inexperience. Looking back I probably should have gone for a mature plant. If they survive the season then I will go for something bigger.

On boy!  Just hope the use of sphagnum works as well for you as it does for me.  I suspect that others on here will be recoiling in horror at the thought.

Get something simple to start with, Tongariro springs to mind.  At £3 a bulb you can afford to make mistakes, but they are very forgiving. I was given one about eight years back and now have hundreds.  The tray to the right in the photos is one of three with my smaller bulbs in.  I thought about chucking them, but as always ended up planting them even though I don't have room.  They are outside at the moment as they live on the greenhouse floor and I have to bring them out before I can get in.  Just hope we don't get any more of yesterday's downpours.  I have just realised that they were on the floor in full flower when I posted a picture of my greenhouse on April 30, so here we are three weeks later and they are just starting to go over.  One advantage of this cooler weather I suppose.

A couple of other cheap, readily available good doers are formosana Oriental Splendour and Fuego.

By the way the bark is just the remains of a top dressing I put on for uniformity in a display.  I took most of it off when I got home but then gave up trying to recycle it.   Beneath it is pure sphagnum.  I am not fibbing.

Just noticed that my anti-cat door frame is behind the pots, which means that it isn't where it should be.  Better put it in place before my old girl decides that it is too cold outside and tries to curl up on the plants.

[Steve Garvie]

A nice form of Pleione aurita



Two forms of Pleione chunii

[Steve Garvie]

I find the bulbocodioides/limprichtii complex to be very confusing.

The first image is of an old clone of Pleione bulbocodioides that has been in cultivation for some time apparently (Chugai).


The second image is (I think) another Pleione bulbocodiodes:




The third image is of a plant that I obtained as Pleione limprichtii. It looks to me to be a Pleione bulbocodioides and does not have four obvious lamellae.


The final plant was bought from a German source as Pleione bilamellata. I'm not sure if there really is such a beast. This plant has two obvious lamellae but the form of the pseudobulb is very slender and flask-like, the opposite of that noted in the formal description of Pleione bilamellata. To me this looks like another bulbocodioides but I would like to be wrong as the original pseudobulb wasn't that cheap! 


What do you think?
Are these all Pleione bulbocodioides or something else?   

[SteveC2]

I cannot see anything in the four photos which screams limprichtii at me.
As for Pleione bilamellata, searching the web for photos leaves me thinking hybrid, man made or natural I cannot say, or maybe I am being kind and it is just another commercial invention.

[Steve Garvie]

Pleione coronaria Views of a single flower and a small group; the latter taken not long before dusk -which accentuates the blue-violet colours.

[hud357]

On boy!  Just hope the use of sphagnum works as well for you as it does for me.  I suspect that others on here will be recoiling in horror at the thought.

Well it has been a week and a half  ...



Much improved from the 'twigs' that I had earlier 

[Luc Gilgemyn]

Pleione coronaria Views of a single flower and a small group; the latter taken not long before dusk -which accentuates the blue-violet colours.

Stunning photo's of a gorgeous plant, Steve ! Congratulations ! 

[erf]

Fantastic pictures and a wonderfull Pleione coronaria. You are a lucky man Steve.
Regards Erling

[Steve Garvie]

Pleione hui -a mainland Chinese form of Pleione formosana and a bonny wee thing that may not however warrant specific status.

Here in Fife it is known as Pleione shuggy! ;-)

[Peter Maguire]

Okay, I've got to ask (someone has to). Why Plieone 'shuggy' ?
Don't remember that being an accepted form of nomenclature. 
Nice plant though.....