Forum Top Ten???

[Tim Harberd]

Hi Everyone,

I was intrigued by Tim’s comment, in the thread ‘eBay offers‘, questioning who would be without Diggory, Wasp & Lapwing… So I revisited the ‘Favourite Snowdrops’ thread (last post 13th Feb 2014)

Only one of those three cultivars (Diggory) features on that list of 25. ((Which was based on an Avon survey))

Has the world really moved on that much in twelve months?

Thinking a bit further.. Prior to that we last discussed this on the thread ‘Top of the drops’ (last post 8th April 2010) which was based on a Plantsman survey.. Non of the above three feature on that..

I’m guessing that we (the Galanthus forum regulars) are a bit more numerous than we were back in 2010... So we could come up with our own reasonably balanced list… if enough people took part.

Is there an appetite for constructing a Forum Top Ten?

First of all we’d need to frame the parameters… On what basis should cultivars be nominated??

Tim DH

[johnstephen29]

Hi Tim are you just limiting this just to cultivars? There are a few of the species I wouldn't be without.

[Tim Ingram]

John Good raised this same question on the AGS Forum suggesting a list of the 'top' hundred - probably more realistic considering the individual nature of all snowdrops and those who collect them. In answer to him I thought that this would only work if enough different gardeners compiled lists of, say, their top ten or twenty, and a gradual consensus emerged from this. As John said there are bound to be a relatively small number of really popular snowdrops that are good doers all over (on average), and then a whole lot more favourites which are likely to keep changing quite quickly. Given the nature of collectors though and the rate at which snowdrops appear this could be both fun and also, as F.H. Fisher commented about Alpine Shows a long time ago, something of an Irish fight . John and I started this with a couple of lists on the AGS Discussion pages (see the North Wales Diary) so it would be interesting to see what other people come up with, but in addition more of the reasons why.

[mark smyth]

Maybe count out rarities and new this year snowdrops

[Brian Ellis]

Maybe count out rarities and new this year snowdrops

I disagree there Mark, if they are your favourites they should be in, having said that most of my favourites are now 'older' varieties but one stands out this year

[ashley]

... something of an Irish fight ...

Can't quite work this one out Tim

[Tim Ingram]

Ha, Ashley - you have to read back through the AGS Bulletins. F.H Fisher was actually trying to stimulate more involvement and interaction amongst growers bringing plants along to AGS Shows (this was way back in the 1930's), and invoked the idea of a bit more passion and verve - hence an 'Irish fight' (not political! just a little bit of fisticuffs - maybe debate). Reminds me a little of Bernard Shaw's book 'Cashel Byron's Profession'. Hope that clarifies

[ashley]

Thanks Tim.  Clearer now

[johnstephen29]

Hi Ashley I wonded if he was thinking of the quiet man movie, the fight between john Wayne and victor mcclaglan(I think I've spelt his name right).

[Tim Ingram]

For those who don't view the AGS Discussion pages here is the discussion between John Good and myself and our lists of top snowdrops:

The top 100
If somebody were sufficiently willing and knowledgeable I think it would be very useful to have a descriptive, illustrated list of the 'Top 100 Snowdrops'. I hasten to say that I have insufficient knowledge! If nothing else this could act as a (probably very active) useful stimulus to discussion about the merits of particular species, hybrids and cultivars so that information on local favourites, best 'dooers' in particular soils and situations could be accumulated in one place. I suspect we could all name 30 or so that would go into the top 100, but the other 70 could create all sorts of fun!! 
*****
'There was an attempt to do this on the SRGC Forum but the only way I could see it working would be to collate an overall list from, say, the best ten or twenty from a sufficient number of different gardeners, trying to use a reasonably objective assessment of garden value over time (effectively what the AGM does but in the narrower sphere of this one genus). I expect there would be pretty good agreement over the first thirty or so, and then a kind of expansion out into the more recent and distinctive cultivars which could be really interesting and useful.
So to start, if anyone wants to join in, I would nominate the following from our garden (in no special order):
'Armine'
'Gerard Parker'
'Augustus'
'Wendy's Gold'
'Hippolyta'
'Galatea'
'Anglesey Abbey'
'The Linns'
'Mrs Thompson'
'Ransom's Dwarf'
These are plants that have all done well over time and are quite distinct from each other. But then I could easily add another group that might not be such good doers, or we haven't grown for long, but stand out in some way, such as 'Kite' and 'Lapwing' and 'Wasp' and 'Percy Picton' and 'Rev. Hailstone' - and these would be more likely to change from year to year. This would be a good exercise if enough different gardeners participated. (How would this same process apply to a different group of plants such as saxifrages I wonder, or perhaps a genus such as Fritillaria when applied to the garden rather than alpine house? Lots of people would have views I'm sure, but there would be a big difference between the garden and more controlled growing conditions).
*****
Right, we're off!! Going along with Tim's suggestion my first ten are:
'Straffan'
'S. Arnott'
'Magnet'
'John Gray'
'Merlin'
'Jacquenetta'
'Augustus'
'Sophie North'
'Diggory'
'Warei'
Of course, it was touch and go deciding what to include, and there are a number of others that could have made the list, but all these grow well here in N. Wales, increase freely, and are distinct.

Forgot to include G. Ikariae subspecies. Ikariae which should definitely be in there, but which to drop out?

[Tim Harberd]

Hi Folks,
   This thread has been read 250 times in 24hrs…. Which (even allowing for repeat visits by some people) would suggest there is enough interest in the idea for it to work…. If only it can be framed in a way which encourages people to take part.

   I’ve seen this exercise attempted before where growers have been asked to name their top three… a ridiculous suggestion to anyone who grows hundreds! Equally asking for a top ten might make growers, who have less than twenty, feel unqualified to contribute.

   So I would suggest that we don’t set a number. Anyone can name up to a fifth of the number of cultivars they grow… Then everyone can take part. To my mind, the information gathered from five people who grow twenty will have comparable value to the information from one person who grows a hundred. If anyone wants to name less than a fifth (I would!) then that’s fine too.

   I agree with Mark, about not being interested in rarities.. However I don’t think we need a rule about that, because if enough people take part.. Commenting only on drops they actually grow.. Then rarities will automatically get washed out of the top of the list.

   I also agree with Mark, about not being interested in ‘new this year’ drops, because I think you need at least one years experience of growing a plant before you can really comment on it.

   Thinking about John’s question, I’ve no objection to naming species, but unless it’s a named cultivar of the species I suspect it too will get washed out of the top of the list… Let’s see!!

   Tim DH

[Alan_b]

I think this question is a bit like asking which of your children is your favourite.  However my top two are:

'Peter Gatehouse', one of the first snowdrops I bought, it has always performed well for me.  I t flowers reliably in November and you can see a hint of the green mark on the inner petals even when the petals are tight closed.

'Diggory', conversely, is one of those snowdrops I have failed with.  So when I do see a good clump of it, it retains its wow factor.  I find the puckered Chinese-lantern petals really striking.

[Tim Harberd]

Hi Alan,
   Thanks for starting the ball rolling...

No one has yet offered an opinion on the usefulness(or otherwise) of asking growers to nominate no more than one in five of the cultivars they grow......

Hi Tim,
   If you don't wish to modify the 1:5 rule.... Do you want to edit, or expand the list of ten you posted earlier. Also, do you think John Good would want to edit/expand his list? Or can we use both lists as they are??

Tim DH

[Tim Ingram]

Hi Tim - I think use both mine and John's lists as they are, and follow your suggestion in general, or just pick out one or two as Alan has done: i.e. no particular rules, just responses. The essence of doing this is having enough contributions that are effectively independent of one another because, as you say, there will be people growing 500 snowdrops and others just 5 or 10, but the role they play in different gardens and which really stand out will be the 'same' (i.e. individual) for everyone, the numbers will just be different! I think we would need a pretty good number of gardeners to chip in (no pun intended!) if some sort of pattern is really to emerge, but also an idea of why certain plants are chosen. Apropos Alan's comment - generally none of us have upwards of a hundred children but with snowdrops I think we do tend to love them all the same in a way, but it's good when children have their own personality. From this it should be possible to make a (changing) list of a hundred or so snowdrops that may throw up some surprises and maybe regional differences.

(I don't think this is likely to change Galanthomania especially, but tame a little of its anarchy )

[Blonde Ingrid]

I would be interested to know:

1. Who is the audience for the eventual list and what do we expect they will do with the list? Do we anticipate it will influence them to do or not do something and if so what?

2. Do we have a definitive list of criteria for evaluation? I agree with Brian, why would we exclude snowdrops obtained less than a year previously? If aesthetics are a factor, they cannot be time limited.

3, How will snowdrops from other countries be handled, which almost by definition will be less common as they are more difficult to source?

I am not at all sure as to the value of the exercise.