Violets / Violas

[Maggi Young]

Reposting from the Southern Hemisphere thread s requested by Gerd K

The violet is also lovely. What kind is it? It looks a lot like one of our native violets, Viola pedata, bird's foot violet, a sand-loving plant.

Gabriel,
Sorry for this late reply, but (suspecting that your pics were made near to you) I am interested in the conditions in which Viola pedata occurs.
Does it experience a longer periode of dryness in fall?
I once read (forgot where) that a hot and dry periode is essential for successful cultivation of this tricky species because the leaves should wilt at this time.
Another question is about hardiness. What are the minima in winter in your region and is there a permanent snow cover normally?

Gerd

[Gabriel B]

Thanks for posting this here, Maggi, and thanks for sending me a message, Gerd, since I didn't notice your reply.


I read through the earlier posts. Interestingly enough, I visited Viola pedata in the same place where Rick R did, and met him there in late April. Very nice to see his later photos of the violets in full bloom.


Gerd, the place that we visited, Grey Cloud Dunes (on the south bank of the Mississippi southeast of Saint Paul, Minnesota) has dunes of pure sand. That is what the violets were growing in. There may have been something else under the sand, but I didn't dig to find out.





The climate here is warm summer and freezing winter. The lowest temperature each winter is typically around -20 F (-29 C), and the average January temperature is well below freezing. So, if your Viola pedata is from Minnesota, it should be completely hardy in Germany.

Rainfall and snowfall in Minnesota is pretty unpredictable; some summers are almost rainless, some winters have very little snow cover. This year has had unusually regular rainfall. However, I think fall (autumn) tends to be pretty dry. Because of the dryness, the Minnesota Daffodil Society recommends watering daffodils in fall.

I don't think Viola pedata has a summer dormancy, if that's what you mean. As far as I know, it keeps its leaves from spring to winter frost.

I wonder what is preventing your bird's foot violets from blooming. You are already growing them in sand, which is good. I've heard they like acidic soil too. Perhaps they would benefit from fertilization. Fertilizing now might encourage them to make flowerbuds for next spring.

I just planted a bird's foot violet, and it looks a little sad: yellowed with purple spots (I think). I'll experiment by watering with magnesium sulfate, iron sulfate, and sprinkling on a slow-release 15-15-15 fertilizer, the same things I fertilize my lingonberries, blueberries, and azaleas with. If any of these have an effect, I'll let you know.

[Gerdk]

Thanks for posting this here, Maggi, and thanks for sending me a message, Gerd, since I didn't notice your reply.


I read through the earlier posts. Interestingly enough, I visited Viola pedata in the same place where Rick R did, and met him there in late April. Very nice to see his later photos of the violets in full bloom.


Gerd, the place that we visited, Grey Cloud Dunes (on the south bank of the Mississippi southeast of Saint Paul, Minnesota) has dunes of pure sand. That is what the violets were growing in. There may have been something else under the sand, but I didn't dig to find out.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

The climate here is warm summer and freezing winter. The lowest temperature each winter is typically around -20 F (-29 C), and the average January temperature is well below freezing. So, if your Viola pedata is from Minnesota, it should be completely hardy in Germany.

Rainfall and snowfall in Minnesota is pretty unpredictable; some summers are almost rainless, some winters have very little snow cover. This year has had unusually regular rainfall. However, I think fall (autumn) tends to be pretty dry. Because of the dryness, the Minnesota Daffodil Society recommends watering daffodils in fall.

I don't think Viola pedata has a summer dormancy, if that's what you mean. As far as I know, it keeps its leaves from spring to winter frost.

I wonder what is preventing your bird's foot violets from blooming. You are already growing them in sand, which is good. I've heard they like acidic soil too. Perhaps they would benefit from fertilization. Fertilizing now might encourage them to make flowerbuds for next spring.

I just planted a bird's foot violet, and it looks a little sad: yellowed with purple spots (I think). I'll experiment by watering with magnesium sulfate, iron sulfate, and sprinkling on a slow-release 15-15-15 fertilizer, the same things I fertilize my lingonberries, blueberries, and azaleas with. If any of these have an effect, I'll let you know.

Gabriel,
Thank you very much for this detailed reply. Following your advice I'll fertilize my plants now in order to receive some flowers next spring.
Nevertheless I have some problems to catch why a plant which prefers a poor sandy soil needs additional feeding in cultivation, although I remember a superb flowering potted plant acquired in the Netherlands which was obviously well fed.
Maybe there is somebody here who will be able to solve this riddle.

GHerd

[Gabriel B]

Gerd, it is indeed quite puzzling, and it might be the wrong solution. You can find out by how the plant responds. If it sends out new leaves and the leaf color changes to darker green, a healthy color, then that's a good sign. If not, there might be another answer.

I looked at the weather of Duesseldorf and compared it with Minneapolis. Our summers are somewhat wetter and warmer (daily high of 29 C in July and 102 mm precipitation, compared with 24 C and 75 mm), winters are colder and much drier (daily high of -5 in January and 23 mm precipitation, compared with 6 C and 67 mm). It's possible that the plant wants colder winters, less winter rainfall, more summer rainfall, or hotter summers. A bunch of possibilities. The only one that can be tested is rainfall.

However, Viola pedata lives in a wide area (see this map), with a wide range of climates, and it could be that your form of the species comes from a different place with a different climate from Minneapolis. For instance, the Ozarks (to the south in Missouri and Arkansas) have a lot of Viola pedata along roadsides, and there the summers are hotter and winters warmer and wetter.

I guess I have two thoughts: the leaves should be darker green, and the plant should be putting on new growth and gathering energy in the summer, and the leaves should die back in the winter. Lack of healthy summer leaf growth and lack of dormancy could explain why the plant doesn't bloom in the spring. Just theorizing, however. I'm still trying to fix my Viola pedata.

[Gerdk]

Gabriel,
I don' believe that fertilizing would be the wrong solution for having flowers. Coming back to the plant acquired in the Netherlands - it grew in pure peat with some rice husks and the soil had a lot of pellets which seems to contain an encapsulated controlled release fertilizer. The plant itself was free flowering and had a lot of the so called crowns (a divided rootstock), maybe it was a little bit overfed. I didn't plant it in a sand bed and lost it soon.
 
But it seems that some tests with different fertilizing regimes can't be that bad.

Gerd

[Gabriel B]

Gerd, sounds like the grower was using the wrong growing medium. From what I've seen and read, Viola pedata prefers soils without any organic matter. No wonder the plant died. Similar to a grower who grew lavender in peat. I suppose it works if the plants are watered very infrequently.

I think my plant might not make it either, because I planted it in loam, which is staying very wet this year. One of these days I'll make a sand bed and plant some bird's foot violet seeds there, and perhaps grow the violet along with harebells, pasqueflowers, and penstemons.

[fermi de Sousa]

.... One of these days I'll make a sand bed and plant some bird's foot violet seeds there, and perhaps grow the violet along with harebells, pasqueflowers, and penstemons.

Hi Gabriel,
when would you sow the seeds?
I have a sand bed and might try it (if I can get seed of the true thing!)
cheers
fermi

[Gabriel B]

Fermi, the seed has to be kept moist and needs a cold treatment, so you could sow in autumn and hope the winter is cold enough, or stick the seed in the refrigerator and plant in spring. Seed typically ripens in June up here, which would be winter for you. I wonder if it would adjust well to traveling across hemispheres, or if you could find a source down there.

[Maggi Young]

Useful sheet to help in identifying  violas : https://bsbi.org/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/dinkymoira-Violets.pdf

Commissioned by Rebecca Wheeler for the  Botanical Society  of Britain and Ireland ( BSBI)  and written by  Moira O'Donnel

[Gerdk]

Useful sheet to help in identifying  violas : https://bsbi.org/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/dinkymoira-Violets.pdf

Commissioned by Rebecca Wheeler for the  Botanical Society  of Britain and Ireland ( BSBI)  and written by  Moira O'Donnel

Useful indeed - but I miss the Latin names (for the sake of clarity)

sweet violet            =    Viola odorata
hairy violet             =    Viola hirta
e<rly dog violet      =   Viola reichenbachiana
common dog violet  =   Viola riviniana

Gerd

[ashley]

Thanks Gerd.  Agreed that it's a useful aid to ID but very odd that scientific names were omitted.

[Gerdk]

Still before Viola odorata its relative
Viola adriatica from Croatia built some flowers

Gerd

[Gail]

My purple lawn, which has now more Viola odorata than grass;

We had a bit of sunshine yesterday and the honey bees were out, really enjoying the violets, and the scent was fantastic!

[ashley]

How beautiful Gail, and lovely Roman hyacinths too.

[Gabriela]

My purple lawn, which has now more Viola odorata than grass;
We had a bit of sunshine yesterday and the honey bees were out, really enjoying the violets, and the scent was fantastic!

The best type of 'lawn' Gail! So beautiful and also good for the bees.