Remarks from the Weekly KAVB Flower Show - Lisse

[Lvandelft]

Allium   
Allium dolychostylum                         
Allium hyalinum                                       
Allium karataviense Red Globe                   
Allium litvinowii                                         
Allium loratum pink                                     
Allium loratum                                           
Allium nevskianum
Allium nevskianum seedl.                           

[Lvandelft]

Allium                                     
Allium oreophyllum Agalik's Giant                      
Allium oreophyllum Kugard                              
Allium oreophyllum Samur                              
Allium protensum                                        
Allium rosenbachianum Kwakense                      
Allium rosenbachianum sel.                      
Allium roseum                                          
Allium rotundum ssp. jajlae                          
Allium Silver Spring

[Lvandelft]

and there were not only Allium. A few more pics:

Hymenocallis longipetala                                 
Triteleia ixioides Starlight                               

and I think we saw the last tulip of this spring 

Tulipa double mutant of T. Blue Parrot (a so-called cauliflower tulip)         

[Maggi Young]

Dear me, that poor parrot needs to be put out of its misery!
 I think it must be a "Norwegian Blue" ? 

It is certainly prime Allium time... what a fantastic selection. I really like the reds....superb flowers!

[Thomas Huber]

Thanks Luit - what a great show!!!
I MUST have more Allium for my garden!

[Gerry Webster]

I think it must be a "Norwegian Blue" ? 

Unfortunately not - it looks very much alive.

[arisaema]

I quite like it, it's almost as pretty as 'Ice Cream'

[TheOnionMan]

Luit, great to see such a fantastic range of Alliums, it opens the doors to the possibilities within this large genus. I'm just catching up with this thread, but I have a few questions and comments.

Refer to the series of allium photos one page back:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1315.msg201265#msg201265

Are the ones listed as Allium nev. 06-06, Allium nev. 06-9, Allium nev. 06-11, and Allium nev. 06-11 cl., are all of these Allium nevskianum?  What do the numbers indicate?

The one shown as "Allium loratum" is misidentified.  Plants erroneously identified under this name are long established in cultivation, the true identity is typically A. decipiens (in one of its forms) or something else.  Allium loratum is a dwarf alpine species from Western Himalaya and Tibet, growing just 3-6" tall, and with white flowers, described by Baker in 1874.


From this series, you showed some section Melanocrommyum hybrids... fantastic!
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1315.msg202917#msg202917

These hybrids are quite impressive, I well imagine some of these will become available in the years to come, Allium alexejanum x stipitatum is a particularly stunning plant.  The cross Allium atropurpureum x christophii is fascinating to see, combining the dark color with enormous heads.  Allium backhousianum I've grown, most distinctive attraction in the garden, sadly mine passed away after a few years of bloom.  I have always wanted Allium caspium, you show a good deep color form, as sometimes it can be whitish.

Regarding Allium "auctum", the species name is an invalid one, which depending on the original author citation, refer instead to A. cyrillii, decipiens, or a pink-flowered form of A. nigrum.  I've grown plants under the "auctum" name twice, one plant ended up being A. nigrum in a nice pink form (looks like your plant) and the other time it ended up being A. cyrillii (which I was pleased with, because A. cyrillii in horticulture is usually replaced by Allium senescens).


On Allium 'Cameleon', I have some plants in flower from bulbs received from Wim de Goede, and I have made a determination that most likely the underlying species is Allium longanum, a Mediterranean species found in North Africa from Libya to Egypt and in Cyprus and the Cyclades; I posted some pics and discussion in the following link. As always with Allium identification, coupled with not knowing what the plant's native derivation, it is possible to narrow down the field to a few possibilities, A. trifoliatum being the second possibility, and A. longanum my first best guess.
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5164.msg202959#msg202959

Allium chloranthum and the pinksih form of A. convallarioides are both very nice, I've grown both and there are welcome treasures for the rock garden.


Difficult to comment on your A. decipiens, would need to see foliage and possibly the bulbs as well, it looks somewhat different that what I've seen under this name.  After discussions with leading Allium taxonomist Dr. Reinhard Fritsch, who confirmed my plants as Allium decipiens Fisch. subsp. quercetorum Seregin 2007, I understand the plant is variable, but my opinion is that your plant might actually be a different species.

The photo showing Allium caroliniaum is misidentified, A. carolinianum has narrow cupped flowers that barely open (almost "pinched") with the long protruding stamens just squeezing by the closed florets, thus having a very different look.  Without seeing the foliage and bulbs I can't say for sure what it is, but definitely not A. carolinianum.

From you most recent batch:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1315.msg202919#msg202919

Allium dolichostylum (note spelling), looks very interesting.  Can't vouch for identity, I'd need to see more of the plant, but a most interesting look to the flowers, and pretty color combination too.  Fine bouquets of Allium hyalinum and A. litvinowii.

Same comment om both images of Allium "loratum", the always-misidentified dwarf alpine species misidentified with tall Melanocrommyum types; the first one looks again like A. decipiens, the deeper purplish one looks like a Melannocromyum hybrid of some sort.  Allium nevskianum and the seedling color forms are FANTASTIC.

The last batch, with 3 forms of A. oreophilum (note spelling), are gorgeous... such intense color.  I grow the cultivar 'Torch', just coming into bloom now, another hot color form.

Allium protensum is one that I flowered once but then sadly lost, an incredible giant flower in brown and beige tones, weird and wonderful.

Glad you showed Allium rosenbachianum Regel subsp. kwakense R.M.Fritsch, a rarely seen and recently described species (1993).  Just last year (2010), Dr. Reinhard Fritsch, who first named the subspecies, elevated it to species level as A. kwakense.

Allium 'Silver Spring' represents the magnificent forms of Allium nigrum as it occurs in Israel and Syria.  It is Dr. Fritsch's opinion that the Allium nigrum/orientale complex is in need of further study and delineation... the middle eastern forms of A. nigrum, with the intense black-red center, glossy ovaries and tepals, are so distinct, and such an distinct development in the "species", I could well imagine that these forms will be separated off one day.  Needless to say, I burn with yearnings for 'Silver Spring'.

[Lvandelft]

Mark, thank you very much for your input.
As you know I just make reports of the Weekly Shows and when some names are not o.k., this is just because I make pictures of plants/flowers and of the names put to them by the exhibitors. These will be corrected for the exhibitors after judging, but then I will be at home already.
And because I know not enough about Allium I send your comment to the exhibitor who send most entries, Wietse Mellema. He told me that he once already had contact with you, but somehow this contact was not continued. He would very much like to have contact with you again. I will send you his Mail address in a PM later.
He could answer many of your questions, but did this in Dutch and asked me to translate for him and contribute to the Forum. I hope that I will find some time soon to do so.

For now to your first question:
 

Are the ones listed as Allium nev. 06-06, Allium nev. 06-9, Allium nev. 06-11, and Allium nev. 06-11 cl., are all of these Allium nevskianum?  What do the numbers indicate?

The numbers NEV 06-06, 06-9, 06-11 / 06-11 cl are all seedling from a cross of Allium nevskianum as mother and Allium sarawschanicum as the father.

Later more.

[Lesley Cox]

Thankfully, I never really got around to calling Alliums as Nectaroscordum, even A. bulgaricum  or siculum, so I can happily go along as before. I find many such plants revert to "old" names, if one waits long enough.

Believe it or not, I do, actually like the mutant 'Blue Parrot,' especially in a tight bunch like that. Maybe not in the garden. My mother had the old single version along with some others.

[TheOnionMan]

Mark, thank you very much for your input.

And because I know not enough about Allium I send your comment to the exhibitor who send most entries, Wietse Mellema. He told me that he once already had contact with you, but somehow this contact was not continued. He would very much like to have contact with you again. I will send you his Mail address in a PM later.

Later more.

Thanks Luit.  I don't recall anyone by the name of Wietse Mellema contacting me, but then again, I get so much email maybe the correspondence got lost in my overflowing inbox.

The seedling crosses of Allium nevskianum and Allium sarawschanicum are very exciting.

[TheOnionMan]

Thankfully, I never really got around to calling Alliums as Nectaroscordum, even A. bulgaricum  or siculum, so I can happily go along as before. I find many such plants revert to "old" names, if one waits long enough.

I still consider siculum and bulgaricum as Nectaroscordum; I'm ahead of my time as I fully believe they'll be spun off once again as the separate genus Nectaroscordum, where each tepal has 3-7 veins, instead of 1 vein in Allium.

Believe it or not, I do, actually like the mutant 'Blue Parrot,' especially in a tight bunch like that. Maybe not in the garden.

Just when you think you know someone, they surprise you  

[Gerry Webster]

Thankfully, I never really got around to calling Alliums as Nectaroscordum, even A. bulgaricum  or siculum, so I can happily go along as before. I find many such plants revert to "old" names, if one waits long enough.

I still consider siculum and bulgaricum as Nectaroscordum; I'm ahead of my time as I fully believe they'll be spun off once again as the separate genus Nectaroscordum, where each tepal has 3-7 veins, instead of 1 vein in Allium.

I know nothing about Allium nor, though I grow it, about Nectaroscordum. Do taxonomists really believe that the number of veins in the tepals is a sufficient ground for distinguishing two genera? Surely there must be other characters? Even in Narcissus, a chaotic genus, a difference in the number of veins only serves to distinguish varieties (of N. bulbocodium subsp. praecox).

[Lvandelft]

The one shown as "Allium loratum" is misidentified.  Plants erroneously identified under this name are long established in cultivation, the true identity is typically A. decipiens (in one of its forms) or something else.  Allium loratum is a dwarf alpine species from Western Himalaya and Tibet, growing just 3-6" tall, and with white flowers, described by Baker in 1874.

Mark, here is the next (translated) answer to your comments:

We bought 1 bulb of Allium loratum for US $ 20.- from Janis Ruksans in 2003.
What we have grown from this bulb is about 60 cms high and flowers more than 6 weeks.
There were more entries with this Allium under the same name and we have it under this name because it is supposed to come from a knowledgeable person…..
Allium decipiens is totally different, just the flower color is like that a bit.
As far as we know is Allium loratum rather close to Allium giganteum what is feasible to us as having the same density in the flower heads.

[TheOnionMan]

The one shown as "Allium loratum" is misidentified.  Plants erroneously identified under this name are long established in cultivation, the true identity is typically A. decipiens (in one of its forms) or something else.  Allium loratum is a dwarf alpine species from Western Himalaya and Tibet, growing just 3-6" tall, and with white flowers, described by Baker in 1874.

Mark, here is the next (translated) answer to your comments:

We bought 1 bulb of Allium loratum for US $ 20.- from Janis Ruksans in 2003.
What we have grown from this bulb is about 60 cms high and flowers more than 6 weeks.
There were more entries with this Allium under the same name and we have it under this name because it is supposed to come from a knowledgeable person…..
Allium decipiens is totally different, just the flower color is like that a bit.
As far as we know is Allium loratum rather close to Allium giganteum what is feasible to us as having the same density in the flower heads.

Thanks for the translated comments.  Regarding Allium loratum, the reality is, the true species is completely unlike A. giganteum. As I stated, the original description is that A. loratum is a dwarf species from Tibet, 10,000-14,000 feet, with stems that only reach 3-6" (7.5-15 cm) high and with WHITE flowers with light brown midveins.  This dwarf alpine species is published in The Journal of Botany, British and Foreign, article entitled "On the Alliums of India, China, and Japan", by J.G. Baker, Vol.III page 290, published 1874.  The description of Allium loratum also appears in The Flora of British India by Sir J.D. Hooker, Vol. VI. Orchideae to Cyperaceae, published in 1894.  I'm happy to scan and post the original latin description and the later english description for everyone to see first hand.

What has happened is that somewhere along the way, many decades ago, a misidentified plant started going around erroneously as A. loratum, with the mistake repeated for so many decades, that now the mistake is totally entrenched in horticulture... no one has bothered to check plants under this name with the original description, thus a universal misnomer is born.  It is not relevant that the plant was obtained from a knowledgeable grower, or that the plant might come from a respected horticultural institution, according to Dr. Reinhard Fritsch, nearly half of Allium specimens cultivated in many botanical institutions are misidentified.  Everywhere I have looked, where so-called A. loratum is being sold, even by trusted nurseries, the plant is most definitely misidentified. I suspect some people will choose to ignore the enlightenment, although I hope that nurseries will instead take it upon themselves to compare their plants to the original published descriptions of the species to realize the mistake. 

Allium loratum of horticulture is invariably misidentified, and has been for so long, everyone just figures what they're seeing under this name must be right.  I've grown plants under this name, which turned out instead to be forms of A. decipiens and also A. hymenorrhizum; probably other species are also masquerading as A. "loratum".

There is past precedent for this long-term universal misidentification. For many decades what was sold as Allium aflatunense in the Dutch bulb trade was finally acknowledged to be incorrectly identified and not the true A. aflatunense.  In this case the name Allium hollandicum was ultimately devised to help clear the muddle, the newer name applied to the mistaken "aflatunense".