Remarks from the Weekly KAVB Flower Show - Lisse

[TheOnionMan]

Not familiar with how these shows operate, I need to ask a question.  Is there any sort of vetting of plant names and identities before things are shown?

Harking back to late 2009 when I was involved in a SRGC thread, where forumists complained about the fact misnamed seed gets sent into the seed exchanges, there was sentiment along the lines of: I've paid my yearly membership, by golly I should be able to get my seed without any misidentifications.  My take on this was to explain why it is sometimes, oftentimes, difficult to verify the names of plants unless one has a remarkable library of floras and the most up-to-date scientific taxonomic papers, as well as provide other reasons why misnamed seed makes it into the seedexes. Forumists grew weary of my rationalization about why & how seed donations are sometimes wrong, and asked for the thread to end

Fortunately, Google goes a long way these days to help verify one's plant IDs, but it is not foolproof, as there's tons of misinformation there too..

This thread seems a good illustration on how things get sent into seed exchanges misidentified and the misinformation perpetuated, when misnomers are shown in flower shows, possibly not even to be corrected for the record. I've already indicated some misidentifications above, and now there's a photo labeled with the wrong genus.

There is no such thing as Muilla Forelock .  The Western North American genus Muilla (indeed an anagram of Allium) has but 3 species, some of which have gone back and forth between Bloomeria, another small Western North American genus also with 3 species (which I have shown on this forum: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5080.msg157404#msg157404), both members of the Themidaceae.  Muilla are small little plants with whitish flowers, some information and image links:
http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Muilla
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=121293
http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?query_src=photos_index&where-taxon=Muilla+transmontana
http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?query_src=photos_index&where-taxon=Muilla+coronata
http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?query_src=photos_index&where-taxon=Muilla+maritima

So what is this Forelock thing?  Googling based on what this thing looks like (sure looks like an Allium to me), I searched Allium Forelock, and sure enough, it is an Allium, apparently a Dutch named variety without attribution to a species, found in many UK nurseries and at least one nursery here in the USA.  I found one nursery listing (not in English) attributing the species as A. vineale, but I doubt that very much as there does not appear to be any bulbils in the flower head.  The flower head looks much like A. amethystinum.  Anyone know more about the origins and parentage behind "Forelock"?

[Lesley Cox]

Luit, a lovely selection as always. I especially like the cream and light orange Cyrtanthus forms. And the little Hermannia is very pretty and airy.

I had never heard of Muilla and don't doubt Mark's notes for a moment. The illustrated plant certainly looks very like an Allium. I guess even those whom we would expect to be fully up to speed with naming can also make mistakes. I'm surprised though Mark, that a thread discussing naming on the seedlists was stopped. Usually it's a subject we can all have a right good moan about.

[Diane Clement]

I had never heard of Muilla and don't doubt Mark's notes for a moment.

I have, and I've got a pot.  Every year I think I've lost it, but it struggles back to life.  It's never flowered yet, and I live in hope, but from Mark's description I'm not sure I should bother 

[TheOnionMan]

I had never heard of Muilla and don't doubt Mark's notes for a moment.

I have, and I've got a pot.  Every year I think I've lost it, but it struggles back to life.  It's never flowered yet, and I live in hope, but from Mark's description I'm not sure I should bother 

Diane, click on any of the photo links I gave (1 link for each of the 3 Muilla species), they are cute little "minor bulbs".  The species of closely related Bloomeria are more garden worthy in my opinion, showier, and with bright color flowers.

[Lesley Cox]

I thought they were very pretty. Perhaps not earth shakers, but worth the effort if they come your way.

[Lvandelft]

What a fine selection of interesting species - came along Muilla (anagram of Allium) the first time!
Thank you, Luit!

Gerd

Gerd, although I normally take my job as reporter at this show rather serious, this time I allowed myself a little joke.
Just I'm glad that you found out right away that I used an anagram for this Allium, but you know me longer than just one day
I saw so many leeks last week, it must have been the smell

[Lvandelft]

Luit, a lovely selection as always. I especially like the cream and light orange Cyrtanthus forms. And the little Hermannia is very pretty and airy.

I had never heard of Muilla and don't doubt Mark's notes for a moment. The illustrated plant certainly looks very like an Allium. I guess even those whom we would expect to be fully up to speed with naming can also make mistakes. I'm surprised though Mark, that a thread discussing naming on the seedlists was stopped. Usually it's a subject we can all have a right good moan about.

Lesley, like you I didn’t realize that a genus Muilla really exists, but thought it a good idea to test if people still look as attentive at my pictures as I do the naming and resizing of them, which is rather a hell of a job when there are many other jobs to do outside in the garden   
The flowers were indeed sent by the grower as Allium Forelock!!!
BTW, I did not want to upset anybody

[Lvandelft]

Being a member of this Forum since 7 years, many forumists will know by now that I always have been one of the proponents of writing plant names properly and always willing to correct a wrong name, when this occasionally happens.
I do have no problems with fair comments!
BUT…….

This thread seems a good illustration on how things get sent into seed exchanges misidentified and the misinformation perpetuated, when misnomers are shown in flower shows, possibly not even to be corrected for the record.

The above quoted lines are for me in such an extent insulting, that I am considering stopping this thread immediately!

[Maggi Young]

Luit,  please do not take those comments personally.
It is of course deeply distressing for those who work so hard for the Forum to hear such criticisms made but you are not culpable of any wrong doing.


Referring back to other comments:
 
It was the hurt caused by criticism of the Seed Exchanges that resulted requests for  comments to the thread on mis-naming from late last year to be drawn to a close.
We are all anxious that plants are properly named - in so far  as that is possible- (and, let's face it, in some cases that is extremely difficult) but it is also the case that innocent folks working hard to assist in the seed exchanges can be made to feel bad by the complaints, which is quite unfair. While that is surely not the intention of the criticsm, it is a consequence which I regret. Sadly those to whom such criticism is rightfully directed may carry on regardless while others feel blamed.

[ranunculus]

Dear Luit,
We love your reports, we adore your images, we appreciate the effort involved, we thank you immensely.  Mark wasn't criticising you or your reports in any way, he was simply addressing an ongoing nomenclature issue from his viewpoint - and, from the amount of images he has posted to forums around the world, Mark understands and appreciates the effort and time that you have spent on our behalves.
Please keep up the excellent work.

[Maggi Young]

I just made a note to Stephen in another thread which is equally applicable here and in rather a lot of other threads, too........http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5723.msg159572#msg159572

 ....expressing thanks to those who take the time and trouble to contribute  to the forum!

[TheOnionMan]

Dear Luit,
We love your reports, we adore your images, we appreciate the effort involved, we thank you immensely.  Mark wasn't criticising you or your reports in any way, he was simply addressing an ongoing nomenclature issue from his viewpoint - and, from the amount of images he has posted to forums around the world, Mark understands and appreciates the effort and time that you have spent on our behalves.
Please keep up the excellent work.

Luit, I peruse these plant show threads with great interest and admiration, and I do appreciate all forumists involved, from the plant show organizers and the amazingly skilled growers, and in particular, for those such as yourself giving up your valuable time to share so many photos for us forumists to view and enjoy.  Cliff summarized well, that I was taking the opportunity to address issues of nomenclature, how easy it is for the effects of misnamed plants to be amplified as a result of a plant show or other educational public venue. Some plant misidentifications seem uncorrectable; they are so entrenched in horticulture that they can persist and thrive for decades or longer in spite of attempts at setting the record straight (Allium "cowanii" comes to mind, an invalid synonym of A. neapolitanum surviving well over a century).  Just addressed one this morning on the Allium thread, where Allium splendens "var. kurilense" is discussed, that name an invalid non-existent one, yet it thrives in the seed exchanges & specialists nurseries. http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4757.300

So Luit, please continue your posting of plant show reports, they are sincerely appreciated. Please know that any comments made about nomenclature are offered in the interest of clarifying any nomenclatural inaccuracies for the benefit of the grower and any other forumists who might subsequently want to grow said plants; that such discussions are in no way a reflection of the forumist who is diligently and most generously working to post the show results.

[johnw]

Luit - For me  - and I am sure I speak for other forumists as well - the Lisse Show is the most consistently uplifting and informative thread on the Forum along with the Ian's Bulb Log.  Everything at Lisse is so beautifully displayed and the venue one of the best I have seen - so bright and cheery even on the worst winter days, one would think a cloud never passed through Dutch skies.  Continue on my friend we appreciate your hard work and dedication to produce this remarkable tonic for our seasonal blues.

johnw

[Ragged Robin]

Luit, your Weekly Lisse Flowershow is a wonderful Thread always full of delights and surprises in that curvaceous setting!  It is a window into the world of superbly grown specimens and I look forward to each one for your photography and comment - your guided tours are full of interest, detail and humour not to be missed so please continue to report on this great event. 

[Lesley Cox]

I absolutely agree with John, Robin and the others who love this thread and would be very sad to see it close. Every time I look at it I think of you Luit, taking so much time with the pictures themselves at the shows then all the processing to get them ready for the Forum and for our pleasure. I've seen many plants here that are new to me and I wouldn't see in any other circumstances.

As to criticisms, don't let them bother you. I've been on the receiving end too but in general, they're meant in the spirit of learning and accuracy and in any case, I'd defend to the end, anyone who is happy to make a wee joke. What is the world coming to if we can't laugh a little bit?

And if you are seeing too many leeks, try them with potatoes and chicken stock, salt and plenty pepper, to make a very good soup!