September 2015 in the Northern Hemisphere

[rgc]

Thanks Maggi for the e-birthdaycard. Don't feel like 71.

Some pictures taken this morning.

1. 10 days ago, I posted Lilium lancifolium florepleno in the Lilium 2015 thread. Later picture of Lilium lancifolium florepleno taken from an upstairs bedroom window. 10 flowers out of the 30 buds on the main stem have now opened while 10 plus another 10 flowers out of the 25 buds on the other stems have now opened. Picture also shows some of the 35 year old 'dwarf' rhododendrons that I have been cutting back to give more space for underplanting.

2. Some late flowers on Cyclamen intaminatum in a crevice.

3. Gentians very late this year, most of my plants have not started flowering yet. Picture mostly of G. Devonhall which is the most advanced. The picture shows flowers of a much paler blue than they are in reality.

Bob

[Maggi Young]

Many happy returns of the Day, Bob - good to hear you're not feeling your age - long may it continue!

[ian mcdonald]

Perhaps colchicum is only correct until next week when the next book comes out. When I write scientific articles I use scientific names but even then I will not use the very latest name. I am not prepared to buy yet another expensive book just because some of the names have been changed yet again. The only reason for changing the names of wildlife is to sell more books. It would be better and cheaper to keep the English names. There is already a movement for this. A good example of mindless name changing is Fen Violet. Previously known as Viola persicifolia. Then changed to V. stagnina. Then back to V. persicifolia and now back to V. stagnina. Many things are changed for sales rather than sense. Bluebell is another example. So who decides what is correct. The publisher who wants to sell more books.

[Maggi Young]

So long as you are callingthe Fen Violet  a Viola and not a Veratrum, Ian - the Colchicum /Crocus  divide is of that sort! 

[ian mcdonald]

Maggi, just like a woman to want the last word?

[Maggi Young]

I rather resent that, Ian.
I am making a valid point about the use of one scientific name for another plant with a perfectly valid scientific name of its own. I am trying to illustrate the inconsistency of the use of Autumn Crocus for what is an Autumn Colchicum. It is not  a matter of a name which has changed or even might change - it is a different plant from a different family and it is this kind of erroneous naming which I have observed to be of considerable confusion to people over the years. 

[johnralphcarpenter]

Common names are unreliable and confusing and vary not only from country to country but within a country. Take Galium aparine, aka cleavers, clivers, goosegrass, catchweed, stickyweed, robin-run-the-hedge, sticky willy, sticky burr, sticky willow, velcro weed, and grip grass. We had friends over from Canada recently, and while showing them around the garden I mentioned that there are only three (arguably two) species of cedar - Cedrus libani, cedar of Lebanon; Cedrus deodara, Deodar cedar, and Cedrus atlantica, Atlas cedar, said by some to be Cedrus libani subsp. atlantica. Plus two other subspecies of Cedrus libani, subsp. stenocoma and subsp. brevifolia. What about Western Red Cedar, they said. That's not a cedar, I said, it's Thuja plicata, a member of the Cypress family. Why is it called cedar then, they said. There's no answer to that. Fact is, a great many species in the Cupressaceae are also commonly referred to as cedars (in English). Like all conifers get called Pines when mostly that are not.

Lets us the proper binomial name, even if they do change too often for our liking.

[ian mcdonald]

If the forum was an academic paper I could understand the need for the correct scientific names. This would mean that many people who use gardening as a hobby would be excluded from posting on the forum for fear of being corrected by Maggi acting as a teacher marking a pupils homework. I write academic works but as a gardener I use whatever names I choose because it is only a hobby. In my garden the plants I put a photo. of are autumn crocus and will remain so.

[Tim Ingram]

Oh Ian, that is a little silly. It is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. There is of course room for both and you only have to read Flora Britannica by Richard Mabey to see the rich heritage of common names but in this particular case Maggi is most definitely in the right and it is nothing to do with academia, just common sense.

[Tristan_He]

Colchicum, autumn crocus... Meadow saffron is another popular one but could be highly dangerous if misconstrued. One of my favourite names for these plants is naked ladies(!).

Personally I go for whatever works best - at the end of the day it's about knowing what sort of plant we are talking about. Most of the time that's the scientific name (especially for the international audience on here) but there are occasions when the common name is better known and / or more stable. 'Autumn crocus' is a well-established common name but it's a pretty misleading one and I can understand why Maggi wants to get rid of it. A bugbear of mine is people who pronounce years after 2000 as (for example 'two thousand and fifteen' rather than the previous and much shorter system of 'twenty fifteen'.

I also don't agree that scientific names need to be intimidating or are somehow only for academics. Just ask any five year old the name of their favourite dinosaur. If they can do it, so can we!

[Brian Ellis]

Well I agree wholeheartedly that there are times when it is alright to use common names, but, and it is a big but, surely it is best at the beginning of any conversation to use the latin name so there can be no confusion.  Personally my biggest bugbear is mail order companies who sell "Russian snowdrops" when what they are marketing is not some Galanthus panjutani but Puschkinia scilloides, so that I am confronted by people telling me they have bought the 'New Blue Russian Snowdrop'...but then I am a grumpy old man and proud of it

[Maggi Young]

It has been my experience over many years that "beginners" and "hobbyists" (as some people would call them) are keen to learn and want to know facts about the plants that interest them.  This includes knowing what a plant is and I make no apologies for continuing to spread such information as best I can.

[rgc]

I agree that it can be disconcerting when plants names are changed, an example is Alyssum saxatile that is now Aurinia saxatile. As a retired scientist, I try to keep up, but accept that most of the public are not interested and note that firms such as Suttons seeds still sell it as Alyssum saxatile with no mention of the proper name. With DNA analysis, it is good that botanists are able to delve into the complexity of plant relationships and come up with new insights. (My PhD was into the much simpler topic of quantum mechanics!)

However the autumn crocus / Colchicum confusion is not due to any recent change of name and seems more like the geranium / pelargonium issue. The last time that I told a friend that the 'autumn crocuses' he was pointing out to me were Colchicums, he looked at me with a mixture of disbelief and lack of interest. Looking up 'autumn crocus' on Google, half of the 10 articles referred to on the first page were actually about Colchicum.

Couple of pictures taken this morning.

1. Colchicum speciosum - only Colchicum showing so far in the garden this year.

2. Very scruffy autumn crocus - only one that has flowered so far in my garden this year.

Bob

[Robert]

My wife wanted me to photograph and post this white Cyclamen hederifolium. It has been greeting us every day at the entrance to our home for weeks now.  Very cheery. 

We have Cyclamen blooming throughout the garden now and this one always catches our attention.

[Maggi Young]

Your wife is clearly a lady of taste, Robert! White C. hederifolium are always so pretty- we love them here, too - they are often the first of the hederifolium to flower.