Penstemon davidsonii ssp. menziesii from seed

[Jupiter]

I ordered some seed from Alan at Alplains

EDIT: I've just realised that these particular seed came from the SRGC 2015 seed ex. - 3083 (Penstemon davidsonii ssp. menziesii ‘Microphyllus’)

I am growing a few penstemon species actually and have had good success with them. However, the Penstemon davidsonii ssp. menziesii is developing quite large leaves. Pictures I see online reveal a different looking plant; small, spatulate, thick, glossy leaves.

You can see the seedlings in question on the left hand side of the following image.



Q1: are these just immature leaves of Penstemon davidsonii ssp. menziesii?

Q2: although I do trust Alan could there be a mixup of the kind commonly seen when growing penstemons from seed?

[Maggi Young]

I reckon there can be plenty mix-ups just IDing Penstemon - unless you happen to be Bob Nold, of course!
I'll alert him to this thread to see what he says....

[Jupiter]

Thanks Maggi, I know Bob and I expected him to chime in on this at some point. I should probably post this over on NARGS as well. The plants just keep getting bigger and throwing out bigger leaves. I tried to ignore it but it seems less and less likely to be the real deal.

[Maggi Young]

Mostly only fermi posting over there meantime, Jamus    

[Jupiter]

Fermi is everywhere! I don't know how he finds the time.

[astragalus]

Definitely doesn't look like my Penst. davids. ssp menziesii.  I would absolutely trust Alan when ordering seeds, but this one seems wrong.  The foliage on mine is very low and tight but the flowers are large.

[Gabriela]

I ordered some seed from Alan at Alplains

EDIT: I've just realised that these particular seed came from the SRGC 2015 seed ex. - 3083 (Penstemon davidsonii ssp. menziesii ‘Microphyllus’)

I am growing a few penstemon species actually and have had good success with them. However, the Penstemon davidsonii ssp. menziesii is developing quite large leaves. Pictures I see online reveal a different looking plant; small, spatulate, thick, glossy leaves.

You can see the seedlings in question on the left hand side of the following image.

(Attachment Link)

Q1: are these just immature leaves of Penstemon davidsonii ssp. menziesii?

Q2: although I do trust Alan could there be a mixup of the kind commonly seen when growing penstemons from seed?

I had the exact same 'Penstemon' from AGS 2014 seed ex. Didn't have the space and patience to see which one it was - I should have an image with the flowers somewhere if that would help.
It must have been the same person donating to the AGS and SRGC seed ex. Someone who knows NA Penstemons to collect in the wild doesn't do this sort of mistake.

[penstemon]

The seedlings look like Penstemon hirsutus.
Here's a link to a picture identified as P. davidsonii var. menziesii. I can't really tell if the leaves are toothed, or not. Not, =var. davidsonii.
But you can see that this is a mat-forming plant with tiny leaves.
http://science.halleyhosting.com/nature/plants/5petal/figwort/penstemon/davidsonii/menziesii/menziesii37a.jpg

[David Nicholson]

I think Bob has said before that most Penstemon from seed turns out to be P. hirsutus.

[Gabriela]

The seedlings look like Penstemon hirsutus.
Here's a link to a picture identified as P. davidsonii var. menziesii. I can't really tell if the leaves are toothed, or not. Not, =var. davidsonii.
But you can see that this is a mat-forming plant with tiny leaves.
http://science.halleyhosting.com/nature/plants/5petal/figwort/penstemon/davidsonii/menziesii/menziesii37a.jpg

I knew I kept one (just because they are great pollinator plants). The seedlings were precisely like the ones in Jupiter's image and growing like crazy. Would be nice to have the good name.

[Jupiter]

Interesting and disappointing in equal measures... thank you everyone for your clarification. The only positive is that I'm now pretty sure that an unknown penstemon given to me by Otto is more than likely P. davidsonii menziesii. It has one bud on it so I'll post a picture of the flower when it opens, maybe even later today. Here is the plant:

[fermi de Sousa]

Fermi is everywhere!  I don't know how he finds the time.

By taking coffee breaks and lunch at my desk usually! At present using the free Wifi in cafes and hotels, etc while traversing NZ South Island!

I think Bob has said before that most Penstemon from seed turns out to be P. hirsutus.

That makes a change from Penstemon serrulatus which would usually turns up when sowing something rare! Please refer to excellent article on Transmutium elsewhere on this Forum rather than "casting nasturtiums"
cheers
fermi

[Jupiter]

Sorry for the tedious repetition. You're quite right Fermi this has been covered.

[Jupiter]

Done all the research; looked at all the pictures; studied the scans of dried botanical specimens. I believe this plant which came from Otto is P. davidsonii ssp. menziesii. Only one flower at this stage but I don't think there's much doubt. I can try cuttings when it grows some more and forget about trying to find reliable seed for this one.

[David Nicholson]

Jamus, I don't think it is but I'm not sure what it is. The real Penstemon davidsonii var. menziesii has, as Bob Nold mentioned, toothed leaves and in his book  'Alpine Plants of North America' Graham Nicholls refers to var. menziesii as ".... grows northwards from Mount Rainier, is smaller than the type, and has toothed leaves". I may have a little more time tomorrow and I'll try to post some details of other varieties that Nicholls mentions, and I've got a sneaking suspicion that your plant may be P. virens.