Calling Iris aficionados

[Jupiter]

Can anyone suggest a name for this beauty? I'm not having any luck myself...

[Maggi Young]

I'd be satisfied with just  calling it Iris siberica, Jamus .... but then again, I can be a very simple soul!

[David Nicholson]

I'd be satisfied with just  calling it Iris siberica, Jamus .... but then again, I can be a very simple soul!

Me too Maggi. There are umpteen blue sibericas and most of them look the same.

[Maggi Young]

well, there you go, Jamus - David is simple too....... 

[Jupiter]

Thank you simple souls, I will join your ranks and call it I. siberica. Our local botanic gardens where I took this photo are a bit slack when it comes to labeling.

[David Nicholson]

A couple of pics from a few years ago which illustrate the difficulties in ID's

The first is a variety called 'Perry's Blue' and the second is a seedling I grew from seed given to me by a gardener whilst I was visiting a garden he was working on.

[Jupiter]

Yes I see! Thanks David, that seedling has an interesting form doesn't it? I reckon I prefer the first though. This is not a commonly grown Iris in South Australia but I have it on my radar now. I must have it in the garden... seed collecting expedition immanent.

[Leena]

This is not a commonly grown Iris in South Australia but I have it on my radar now.

That is interesting, I would have thought Iris sibirica was common around the world, because it is so common plant here in the gardens. There are several only slightly different old  strains of I.sibirica, most of them propably originate from seed. It is a hardy plant, and moles or deer don't eat it, and even if moles do it it, then it can grow again from the smallest pieces of root, so it is no wonder it survives even in old gardens with very little care.
There are also some very nice new new hybrids of Iris sibirica bred by Tamberg, I'm so happy that I managed to buy some of them earlier, now they don't sell to private persons any more.

[Jupiter]

Thanks for that Leena, I have a feeling that it really won't enjoy our long, hot and dry summers, which would explain why it isn't grown in gardens here. I will propagate a bit and get it going where I have some of my other cooler climate bulbs. It's difficult sometimes to give plant the sunshine they need but without the intense heat and radiation of the Australian summer sun. Maybe a large pot is the way to go?

[Lesley Cox]

Certainly a cultivar form of Iris sibirica Jamus and probably an older one judging from the shape, and very nice too. Sibiricas love a cool, damp soil but also like the sun to induce a good flowering, so not always an easy combination to provide. They do wonderfully well here where they can be grown in the south in full sun yet still have a cool soil. Likewise in the UK I expect. The newer hybrids, especially those from the States while spectacular, lack the grace and elegance of the older varieties to my mind. They are usually shorter, with larger, heavily substanced and flounced flowers. Part of the attraction of these irises has always been the way their leaves and stems sway and move in a breeze, reminiscent of a reed bed. but the newer, very chunky-stemmed plants tend to be overly stiff and immovable.

[Leena]

The newer hybrids, especially those from the States while spectacular, lack the grace and elegance of the older varieties to my mind. They are usually shorter, with larger, heavily substanced and flounced flowers. Part of the attraction of these irises has always been the way their leaves and stems sway and move in a breeze, reminiscent of a reed bed. but the newer, very chunky-stemmed plants tend to be overly stiff and immovable.

I agree, Lesley. That is why I like the older cultivars very much. They are also oftern more floriferous even if the growing conditions are just not right.

Here are some of my Iris sibirica. The first one is an old one, where I got it from it was grown at least from the 1940s.
The second one is also an old one, but with paler blue flowers.
The third is a one which I have grown from seed, it flowers a bit earlier than the first two and it is taller with smaller flowers but it is very vigorous with lots of flowers, and it is very tall, at least my height which is 1,7m with flowers much higher than the foliage.
I think there are seeds in all these three.
The fourth is I.sibirica -hybrid from Tamberg called 'Höhenflug'. It is also tall with big flowers above the foliage.
The fifth picture is 'Burgundersamt', typical of newer hybrids with chunky flowers which are not above the foliage, but the color is something other than what is seen in I.sibirica.

[Maggi Young]

Lovely examples, Leena. Such elegant flowers.

[Leena]

Thanks Maggi.

[fermi de Sousa]

I have to agree with Lesley about the elegance of the species and the "close to species" hybrids. A pity that the breeding has moved away from that form.

Leena,
that tall seedling of yours is wonderful!
We've grown a few different ones in our garden but the only ones to persist are growing where we supply some summer water,
cheers
fermi

[Maggi Young]

I think when any plant is intensively bred  the chances are that the results will be rather  "gussified" flouncy  flowers with fancy colours which  bear little resemblance to the original species : these are what we would often call "florists' varieties" - even if grown as garden plants and not primarily as cut flowers for the florists' trade.

I think many of us are much happier when, if  hybrids are made, it is done to improve the "growability" of a plant - to make it more amenable to wider growing conditions and perhaps more hardy - and with the hope that the hybrid will retain as much of the original charm of the species as possible.
Of course, any of us can at times have our heads turned by the "pretty face" of  one of the flouncier hybrids - but most of these do look a bit out of place in a purist alpine garden.  That in itself is a bit odd when we conside some of the pure bred wild flowers which are spectacular intheir form and colouring with no interference in their  breeding!

Crazy old world, isn't it?