Latest Bulb Log 2016

[Robert]

Ian,

I enjoyed the images of ice crystals and frosty scenes in your garden. Very beautiful! 

[Ian Y]

Seed is on my mind so in this week's Bulb  Log I review my methods of sowing bulb seed.


http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2016Nov301480511581Bulb_log_4816.pdf

[annew]

A great masterclass in seed sowing, Ian. Like you I pre-soak my dried bulb seeds. If I'm in a hurry, I sow the seeds straight away, water, and keep at room temp for 24hrs, which I assume is the same as pre-soaking (even though not adding the detergent).  Have you ever done a controlled experiment to see if the pre-soaking is beneficial?

[Matt T]

My experiment on the 'cup of tea' method found no benefit to soaking for a range of bulbous species, and in most cases the no soak seeds had a higher rate of germination.

[Ian Y]

Anne, I did do controlled experiments many years ago and there were advantages to be gained from soaking -the unsoaked seeds did germinate but it was sporadic with some not germinating until the second year-  certainly there is nothing to loose from soaking.

Matt , I drink the cup of tea while I soak the seed:-)

[annew]

My experiment on the 'cup of tea' method found no benefit to soaking for a range of bulbous species, and in most cases the no soak seeds had a higher rate of germination.

Just re-read that thread, very entertaining!

[Cfred72]

Hello, I counted the seeds of a pod of Cardiocrinum giganteum. There were 611 seeds inside. I harvested 11 pods this year ... if I sow it on the fly in the undergrowth, do you think I can get one germination ?

[Maggi Young]

Life being what it is, Fred, I'd guess, "no" !

[annew]

Maybe they will germinate and straight away be eaten!

[Tristan_He]

600 seeds x 11 pods - roughly 6,600 seeds. Probably with high viability too, so say about 5,000 seedlings.

All of which translates to about 500 very happy molluscs eating 10 seedlings each . Seriously Fred, I think you are much better off sowing indoors and / or exchanging surplus seed for other things.

[Cfred72]

Seen like that ... It is true that I had not considered the parameter slugs, snails. 

[Rick R.]

I believe Cardiocrinum is known to have generally poor germination rates.  It was certainly true for me with my experience with C. cathayanum.  I had a few come up every year for five years following planting.  All tolled, that was still only, say, 5% or less.  As I recall, you can't discern the embryos in the seed like you can with Lilium. 

[Maggi Young]

Ian is away again, so his "assistant" is left to post his latest  diary.... 

BulbLog 4916 from Ian Young online now  - Winter light, Bulbs and Troughs

 http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2016Dec071481109203BULB_LOG_4916.pdf

[brianw]

Re: Cardiocrinum.
I grew C. giganteum in pots for some years, way-back. And for a couple of years sowed seed in a large pot. Always had more germinate than I knew what to do with but can't say why or how many did or didn't grow. Never occurred to me they were a problem except finding homes for them at the time. Maybe still have an odd plant or two somewhere.

Re: Sorbus in the bulb log.
Went to look at some in a local nursery today and saw a number of Sorbus aucuparia in pots. No particular variety on label, but all were grafted. Seemed odd to me. Why not grow from seed? A number of other Sorbus species there with and without varietal names. Think they were all grafted too.

[Robert]

Re: Sorbus in the bulb log.
Went to look at some in a local nursery today and saw a number of Sorbus aucuparia in pots. No particular variety on label, but all were grafted. Seemed odd to me. Why not grow from seed? A number of other Sorbus species there with and without varietal names. Think they were all grafted too.

Brain,

There is the possibility that the Sorbus trees were not grafted. When I was in my 20's I budded and grafted trees for a nursery that grew commercial bare root fruit and ornamental trees. It was the standard practice to cut all (both budded and non-budded trees) of the trees down to within 5-10 cm (sometimes even more) of the ground the year before they were dug. We spray painted the grafted tree to avoid mixing them with ungrafted trees and other grafted varieties (different colors were used). In the spring we would rub out all but one of the best new shoot on the ungrafted trees. This would give us a very standardized straight trunked tree that would grade well and could easily be bundled with other trees of the same grade. These trees were routinely sold to other nurseries, containerized, and sold. The ungrafted trees would have a
'dog-leg" very similar in appearance to a grafted tree.

Maybe things are done differently in the U.K., however this is a possibility.