Galanthus: January 2008

[snowdropman]

I would love to own 'Grumpy' but don't think I will be getting it from ebay at those prices!
John

John - yes 'Grumpy' is a bit of fun with its markings on the inners - mine has been flowering now for about 10 days or so - lovely grey leaves and big flowers.

Monksilver Nursery were selling it last year and Phil Cornish had it on his List in 2005 (both at prices below the current ebay offering)

[Maggi Young]

I would hope it isnt a forum member being silly with their money. It could be Maggi!?

Don't be daft, Mark, I only spend money on things with a resale value and with narcissus fly about etc, etc, that doesn't include snowies!

[Maggi Young]

Thank you for all your wonderful work.  I have found it a truly moving experience!!

Thanks, Paul, I think the earth moved for me, too

[Paul T]

Maggi,

Well you've shifted enough discussion threads that the Earth's tilt has probably changed, due to the shift in the balance here in the SRGC. 

[Anthony Darby]

I'd like Grumpy too. Might make me less so? I'm going to totally redo my snowdrop border this spring. I think Mark's idea is good as it would appear that there is nothing competing for space at snowdrop time? The summer show is almost like a fantastic floral carpet rolled out over the top, just for the summer and then carefully rolled up in the autumn so the snowies can have the bed to themselves?

[Alan_b]

Naming Snowdrops?

It seems to be quite widely accepted that some named snowdrop cultivars are too ordinary or too similar to others to justify a name.  On the other hand, if a cultivar gets distributed it seems to me to be good science for there to be a means of tracing it back to its point of origin and so it is beneficial if it is distributed with a name.  But what name should you use for similar snowdrops from the same location?  There does not seem to be form of nomenclature used for snowdrops that would indicate this. Would it not be better if the Greatorex doubles were known as Greatorex 1, 2, 3 etc since they share a common point of origin?  Or if the yellow plicates Wendy's Gold, Bill Clarke and Wandlebury Ring were known as Wandlebury 1, 2 & 3 since their genetic stock is all from this location?

The reason I ask is that I am wondering what to do about the garden I found that bears elwesii snowdrops with strong green markings on the outer petals.  Bulbs from this garden have been distributed unnamed to several collectors, as well as Avon Bulbs and Colesbourne.  I suspect some of the recipients have only a hazy notion of the point of origin of these bulbs and may think that they hold clones of the same bulb rather than distinct bulbs.  I was thinking of asking the owner of the garden if I could name the bulb I found there after them (H. D.) followed by the numeral 1 to indicate it was the first one to be found.  Then the others could be H.D. 2, 3, 4 etc. because, to the best of my knowledge, they are all different.

Does this seem sensible or control freakery?  Or is there a better means of nomenclature?       

[mark smyth]

Naming after a garden or garden owner is fine. I wouldnt pass something brand new to the big boys. They will immediately twinscale it and before you know it's up for a PC and has a big price tag attached.

I think Greatorex numbered all of snowdrops before naming them

Of course there are too many plain snowdrops being named. Just look at the Lady Dalhousie snowdrop. It's nothing special

[Alan_b]

Naming after a garden or garden owner is fine. I wouldnt pass something brand new to the big boys. They will immediately twinscale it and before you know it's up for a PC and has a big price tag attached....

I wouldn't pass something brand new on to the big boys myself but it's not down to me in this instance.  I'm afraid PC means Personal Computer to me.  You'll have to explain what it stand for in this context.

[Brian Ellis]

Alan PC here stands for Preliminary Commendation of the RHS at one of the London Shows (I don't think it applies to other shows, but somebody will correct me if I am wrong).  There is then a First Class Commendation and First Class Certificate and an Award of Merit - all worth noting when looking for a good plant if you are buying.  It seems an ideal way of naming a worthwhile plant to name it after the gardener or garden eg Primrose Warburg and South Hayes this also gives meaning to where it was sourced.

[Maggi Young]

PC is a term used by the RHS awards committees.... it means Preliminary Commendation and is the award given to a promising new introduction/raising to indicate potential and to encourage the plant to be further grown and brought back to the committee for future evaluation.
The "next" award would be an AM.. Award of Merit, and the pinnacle is an FCC.... First Class Certificate for a realyy fabulous plant which has proved its worth over some time. For plants which are considered as outstanding garden plants in most situations ( a dodgy criterion, in most cases) there is the AGM.... Award of Garden Merit. For excellence in cultivating a particular plant, there is the award to the grower, A CC ... Cultural Commendation and there is a BC... Botanical Certificate, which is given to a plant of purely botanical interest 
As to the "Bloggs Hill , 2, 3 " version of naming, as far as I am aware this method is not permissable under current regulations by the assorted governing bodies.

Hope this is of some assistance!

[Alan_b]

....As to the "Bloggs Hill , 2, 3 " version of naming, as far as I am aware this method is not permissable under current regulations by the assorted governing bodies.

Hope this is of some assistance!

Maggi - Is there a permitted method of designating different cultivars from a common source or location?  Or would you have to do as Greatorex did and find a set of names with a common theme (Shakespeare's heroines in his case).

[Martin Baxendale]

Alan, if you have a group of quite similar snowdrops (especially from the same seed parent or same locality) the accepted route is to call them the '.........group' as Ian Christie has done with his group of selections from the Brechin Castle Estate, called 'Castle Group'.

This has in the past been used for groups of similar snowdrops which people have had problems identifying as individual cultivars, or ones which to less experienced eyes look almost identical but which can be told apart by the most experienced growers.

You can then name individuals within the group if, after garden trails and proving themselves in a number of gardens, they are considered truly worthy of naming.

The '.....group' approach lets people know that they have a plant which is one of a group of similar plants, so they know it won't neccessarily be the identical cone of another plant known as '.....group'. It also tells people that, if no actual cultivar name goes with the bulb, it hasn't yet been considered good enough to name. This helps with identifying the origin on an un-named bulb.

While the use of numbers or letters to identify individuals within such a group is not acceptable when applying a cultivar name (under botanical naming rules) no-one can stop you using any system of numbers and or letters as simply an identifying tag to keep track of different clones that may later be named properly. If you want to do this, I'd suggest making the identifying tag as unlike a name as possible, so it's clear it's not meant as a name. Perhaps something like Selected Seedling No. 1

[Paddy Tobin]

On the topic of naming snowdrops: I, with a lot of help, have been looking into snowdrops of an Irish origin or connection since last spring and would like to add the following:

Many snowdrops, and probably other plants also, are named unofficially and never put through the rigours of comparison with already named snowdrops by a taxonomist. Given the level of interest in snowdrops this is not surprising but there are consequences which those interested in snowdrops will suffer as a result of this practice. We will encounter snowdrops which are not sufficiently different to have been named at all in the first place. We will also come across common snowdrops which have been given a new name to make them once more new and saleable.

Though it may be a slow, irritating and pedantic approach it really is the best way to go to have snowdrops submitted to a taxonomist for proper comparison and subsequent naming. It would be to the enthusiast's advantage to have matters regularised.

And, here is one flowering at the moment - well, yesterday actually as it was lying very prostrate and forlorn this morning after a night of heavy frost.

Galanthus 'Paradise Giant'

Paddy

[mark smyth]

Paddy 'Paradise Giant' is an elwesii yet your bulbs show typical plicatus leaves

[Anthony Darby]

That's a new word to me Paddy - 'regularised'.